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Apprentice Greytalker
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Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:06 am
The nature of Iuz
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I understand from 505 CY to 570 CY Iuz along with a number of demigods were trapped by Zagig. During this time how were prayers by those demigod's priests answered? Iuz seems to be greatly limited by this imprisonment, were the other demigods similarly impaired?
How much of a departure would it be from canon that avatars of those demigods were imprisoned as opposed to the essence of the demigods themselves?
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GreySage
Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2479
From: SW WA state (Highvale)
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Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:01 am
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Was Iuz a demigod during capture, or upon breaking free?
As for imprisonment effects, so far as I know, most priests can only access 1st and 2nd lvl spells. For instance, Tharizdun, Vatun, and Vecna (now in the Demiplane of Dread), can only grant their priests spells of this level due to their respective imprisonments. I'd imagine that holds true pretty much across the board for all.
-Lanthorn
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Apprentice Greytalker
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Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:29 am
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Iuz gained his divinity before Zagyg's trap.
According to more recent sources, clerics of trapped deities can gain spells if they're in proximity to something sacred to their deity.
The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer says:
"Because of their god's imprisonment, his clerics must be in contact with an object or site imbued with some of Tharizdun's power to prepare or cast spells."
"Because of his imprisonment, Vatun's clerics must be within ten feet of a torch-sized (or larger) flame to prepare or cast spells."
(Not sure what fire has to so with a god of cold and Winter.)
I recall that it was stated somewhere that Xan Yae is granting spells to Zuoken's clerics.
Iuz's clerics may have needed sacred relics to use their spells while Iuz was trapped.
Then there was the issue of Dragon that introduced a legend suggesting the Iuz may be Nyarlathotep's grandson, creating the possibility that...other forces...were granting their spells, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
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GreySage
Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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From: Michigan
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Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:09 pm
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| Armitage wrote: |
"Because of his imprisonment, Vatun's clerics must be within ten feet of a torch-sized (or larger) flame to prepare or cast spells."
(Not sure what fire has to so with a god of cold and Winter.) |
This may be because Vatun is currently imprisoned in flame, which makes more sense than trying to trap a god of winter in a prison of ice.
Vatun is likely imprisoned in Belial's circle of Hell, Phlegethos (judging from Telchur's otherwise inexplicable association with Belial).
I'd also suggest that Vatun's worshipers may honor him in part for protection from winter and cold rather than delight in it, and fire may be therefore be part of his worship. Winter is, for humans, a time of bonfires and hearths, a time when people circle around the flame for protection from the elements and wild beasts. All fires and hearths may be sacred to Vatun for his faithful, and Vatun may thus be intimately associated with the element.
This would be a difference between Vatun and Telchur, who is the merciless north wind. Vatun helps people survive the winter; Telchur has more in common with beasts than men and no interest in coddling people who cannot survive the cold on their own. Fire is anathema to Telchur but a fundamental part of Vatun's iconography.
| mindseye wrote: |
| How much of a departure would it be from canon that avatars of those demigods were imprisoned as opposed to the essence of the demigods themselves? |
One source, Planescape's On Hallowed Ground, actually did attempt to retcon Zagig's prisoners as mere avatars, but in general canon doesn't support this. The whole reason for the presence of worshipers of Zuoken in the central Flanaess is that they're searching for their still-missing god. This is a big plot point in the late-3rd edition Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk and explains why warrior-monks more typical of the Baklunish West are found in places like the Duchy of Urnst (Ghost Tower of Inverness).
The loss of spell-granting abilities due to Zagyg's imprisonment also explains some otherwise inexplicable things like the collapse of Stern Alia's church in Medegia (The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan), the replacement of Merikka's priests by naga-worshiping frauds (Against the Cult of the Reptile God) and the resurgence of Vecna's cult right after most of the demigods were freed (Die Vecna Die!).
In addition, demigods (by 2nd edition rules) typically do not have the ability to create more than one avatar; some demigods cannot create avatars at all. Iuz's stats in From the Ashes are for his true form because he is not a powerful enough god to create an avatar. In Vecna Lives!, Vecna can only manage a "manifestation."
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Adept Greytalker
Joined: Jul 29, 2006
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From: Dantredun, MN
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Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:31 pm
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| Armitage wrote: |
| Iuz gained his divinity before Zagyg's trap. |
Is there a definitive source for this?
In Sargent-era products, Iuz didn't attain godhood until his imprisonment/freedom.
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Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:46 pm
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| vestcoat wrote: |
| Armitage wrote: |
| Iuz gained his divinity before Zagyg's trap. |
Is there a definitive source for this?
In Sargent-era products, Iuz didn't attain godhood until his imprisonment/freedom. |
I was going by the order of events listed in the Iuz entry in the Greywiki, but you are correct.
"Iuz the Evil" says "A strange alliance freed Iuz in 570 CY...the creature returning to its homeland was no cambion tanar'ri now".
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:46 am
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| rasgon wrote: |
| The loss of spell-granting abilities due to Zagyg's imprisonment also explains some otherwise inexplicable things like the collapse of Stern Alia's church in Medegia (The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan), the replacement of Merikka's priests by naga-worshiping frauds (Against the Cult of the Reptile God) and the resurgence of Vecna's cult right after most of the demigods were freed (Die Vecna Die!)." |
Wow! This is why I read Canonfire. WOTC should put Rasgon on the payroll if anything is ever done with the Greyhawk setting.
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Apprentice Greytalker
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:45 am
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I second putting rasgon on the payroll. He seems to have forgotten more of Oerth than I will ever know. 
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