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    Canonfire :: View topic - Demi-Human Superpowers?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Demi-Human Superpowers?
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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    Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:12 pm  
    Demi-Human Superpowers?

    Among the elven nations/enclaves, it would seem Celene is the "elven superpower."

    Among the dwarven nations/enclaves, it would seem the Princepality of Ulek is the "dwarven superpower."

    Given the elves proclivity toward magic and the dwarves fondness for riches, the "Lortmil States" would seem to have the potential to hold their own with any nation in the Flanaess. The Pomarj would give them a common cause.

    So where is the demi-human superstate or League of Demi-human Nations?

    Not saying armies marching to kick Keoland's butt or to "take back Verbobonc," but something? Anything?

    Btw, the Gnome and Halfling "superstates" are also found in the lie of the Lortmils.
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    GVD
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:30 pm  

    A sidebar from Part 2 of the Sheldomar Timeline:

    Sidebar: The politics of this alliance are closely tied to the relationships among the demi-humans of the Uleks, and the radical differences in political activities of demi-humans compared to humans.
    Due to the more restricted environments that the various demi-human races prefer, their nations tend to be less distinct geographically. A group of Dwur for example may have settlements spread across the length of an entire mountain range, but exclude hills, valleys, woodlands, and similar lands within its span. They will still be a single nation, ignoring the vast spaces within their lands that not only don’t they inhabit, but that other races inhabit. From this, they have adopted the habit of creating informal to semi-formal alliances or understanding with the other races that inhabit those areas within their lands that they do not use.
    In this instance, the Lortmils form the focal point of a semi-formal alliance of Olve, Dwur, Noniz, and Hobniz stretching from the Pomarj to the Fals Gap, from the Sheldomar River to the Wooly Bay. Each group has its own lands and rulers, but they confer frequently, and often act in accord. As is natural in any such informal alliance, one group eventually comes to dominate. Here is the Olve, and among the Olve, it is the Grey Elves of Celene that dominate their politics. For the most part the Grey Elves have been content to sit and wait, trusting their long lives to carry them beyond any human nation that may arise, with the side effect of also allowing them to outlive any challengers among the other demi-humans as well. This attitude has left most of the other races less than thrilled with the policies and preferences of the Grey Elves time and again, but for the most part tradition keeps them together. Even others among the Olve these attitudes offensive at times, and as a result most of the High Elves of the area left Celene and settled in what later became the Duchy of Ulek. When Keoland was first formed and the Neheli expanded across the Sheldomar into the lowlands below the Lortmils, the High Elves requested action, joined by the Noniz and Hobniz of the area that would later become the County of Ulek. The Grey Elves of Celene declined to act, having little care for the concerns of even their High Elven cousins. This left long standing resentment that Corond of the Dwur was able to tap into when Tavish became King. He demonstrated the benefits of alliance with Keoland to the others, not merely recognition from the humans, but also a voice in their councils, and perhaps more importantly to the demi-humans of the Lortmils, human troops to help guard the passages beneath the Lortmils where the humanoid breeding dens were. The demi-humans had long had to both guard those passages, and send periodic culling raids into them to keep their numbers down. Both were extremely costly in lives to the long-lived, slow-breeding demi-humans. Having humans help appealed to them greatly. Nevertheless, the Grey Elves of Celene opposed the plan, and it was only due to a unanimous stand by Corond and the other representatives of the races living on the western slopes of the Lortmils that they stood up to the Grey Elves and formed their alliance with Keoland.


    So sure, there is a "Demi-Human League of Nations". And it is only slightly more effective than that body. A combination of insularity, arrogance, and different cultures keeps them from uniting more effectively.
    The Olve continue to be torn by racial distinctions. The Dwur retain their own focus on rebuilding their lost grand nation, trying to find the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords so that their leader can be the new King. The Noniz and Hobniz have their own issues. (i.e. I haven't developed them yet. Laughing )
    And no, they probably couldn't threaten Keoland now. But they could have when it was first forming. And they persecuted the Hateful Wars. Whether they could do so again remains to be seen.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 11, 2003
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    Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:16 pm  
    Re: Demi-Human Superpowers?

    GVDammerung wrote:
    Among the elven nations/enclaves, it would seem Celene is the "elven superpower."

    Among the dwarven nations/enclaves, it would seem the Princepality of Ulek is the "dwarven superpower."

    Given the elves proclivity toward magic and the dwarves fondness for riches, the "Lortmil States" would seem to have the potential to hold their own with any nation in the Flanaess. The Pomarj would give them a common cause.

    So where is the demi-human superstate or League of Demi-human Nations?

    Not saying armies marching to kick Keoland's butt or to "take back Verbobonc," but something? Anything?

    Btw, the Gnome and Halfling "superstates" are also found in the lie of the Lortmils.


    Well, first of all, the other races have different perspectives on national relations than humans do. I doubt the gnomes or halflings would really be interested in organizing themselves into a "superstate" capable of major military efforts. Their nature seems to be more inner looking, and concerned with their own internal affairs. The elves are more of a declining empire as noted in their history: where once they controlled the lands from the Velverdyva to the Wild Coast, their area of influence is much reduced.

    I'm trying to remember where I read about seven elven cities, of which only Enstad remains, I can't remember where I read about it or whether it was a canon source or not (it's late, and I'm tired). But Queen Yolonde seems more interested in maintaining the status quo than reaching byond her borders. The elves of the Lendore Isles seem to have gotten more aggressive, and they could theoretically surprise humans by becoming a force to be recokoned with--it all depends, since the ultimate goals of the People of the testing who were (IIRC) behind the seizure of the Spindrifts are still unclear.

    I think it's important to bear in mind that other races are not just funny looking humans. Their motivations and though processes are totally different. Humans think in terms of conquest and control: other races, with longer lives and different cultural experiences have different goals that are often obscure or beyond the human scope of understanding.

    If any race were to try to create a "superpower" it might be the dwarves, whose desires to control certain resources (specifically precious metals and stones) lends them more to the idea of fielding forces to achieve their ends when diplomacy fails.

    Theala
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sun May 01, 2005 1:50 pm  

    Corond was right there with Tavish when the later strove for empire. Corond "built" a new capital with a pronounced human mein and presence. Corond even had something of an "empire" of his own in the Pomarj. And he still sits the throne.

    I see the Principality as historically activist in almost human sense. They certainly have a cause in the Pomarj. While Celene lays back, I see the Principality pushing forward.

    How will the rest of the Ulek States respond?

    Keoland dominates the Sheldomar? Wait until Corond takes back the Pomarj. There is one demi-human realm that it isn't all sweetness and nice. Corond is a badass in Tavish's mode.

    "King Skotti, I knew Tavish. I was a friend of Tavish. You may be King of Keoland, but you are no Tavish." Wink
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