Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Incabulos: doubts about Faith and Relations
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Incabulos: doubts about Faith and Relations
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 17, 2006
    Posts: 21


    Send private message
    Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:12 am  
    Incabulos: doubts about Faith and Relations

    Incabulos, since I have come to known him, was always one of my favorite GH deities, so I recently searched Canonfire! for information about this god, his worship and the relation of him and his cults with other deities and churches of the Flanaess.

    Although I must say it was satisfactory, and I particulary liked the idea of Incabulos arriving in the Flanaess through the Invoked Devastation (and thus clarifying my doubts of how he was known to all peoples of the Flanaess by the same name), some doubts still remais:

    1- what kind of cults does Incabulos have (if he does) among more civilized lands, like the Free City of Greyhawk?
    2- how is Incabulos viewed by other faiths of the Flanaess? As a true deity or more like a cosmic disaster? Pholtean faith of the Pale, particulary, known for their disdain for other gods, would view him as a rival of Pholtus or would give him a more "devilish" paper?
    3- what does other gods thinks of having a Greater Power suddenly appearing in the heavily "balance-enforced" Oerthan divine politics?
    4- finally, would Incabulos follow the deity treaty of non-interference in the mortal realm? Legend's circulating Incabulos leads to the idea that he regularly visits the Prime to spread nightmares, famine and diseases.

    That's about it. I hope this is not to much Happy

    Thankfully, GGW
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 934
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

    Send private message
    Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:42 am  

    From The WORLD OF GREYHAWK® Deitybase™:
    Quote:
    INCABULOS (Greater God)
    (ihn-KAB-yoo-luhs)

    The Black Rider

    AL NE; WAL LE, NE, CE; SoC Evil, Plague, Sickness, Famine, Drought, Disasters, Nightmares; SY Eye of possession (bronze); AN Nightmare; CR Black, orange; HD Godsday; PoW Hidden temple; CL Clerics, Shamans, Witch Doctors; PN Hades.

    Incabulos is the deity of evil sendings: sickness, famine, drought, and disaster. Being a baneful deity, he does not have a large following. Nevertheless, common folk throughout the Flanaess give him offerings, usually foul-smelling, guttering black candles, trying to appease him and avoid his wrath. Despicable persons of all sorts venerate Incabulos, respecting his power and malignancy. Temples to Incabulos are hidden underground or in isolated, desolate wildernesses. Services are held in secret, with the scene dimly lit by fat, smoky, black candles. The faithful celebrate multiple iniquities, while the priests hum and chant monotonously or join the debauchery.

    Incabulos appears as a horrid-looking man of indeterminate age with skin tinged a diseased blue. He has a twisted, nightmarish visage, deformed body, and skeletal appendages. He wears a filthy robe colored dead black, lined with sickly orange and trimmed in moss green. He visits the Prime Material Plane only during darkness, and he rides a nightmare when it pleases him to do so.


    Incabulos’ Clerics


    Sex M, F; AB Standard; AL LE, NE, CE; AEx –5%; WPN Club, flail, lasso, mace, sling, staff (1st); AR Standard; RA Black robe; PW 1) 20% resistance to all diseases and slimes, +2% per level thereafter, 5) hypnotism, at –2 levels, 8) permanent sleep by touch, 1-segment casting time, save vs. spell at –3 to negate; TU Command.

    Incabulos’ priests are most secretive, fearing the wrath of those who detest what Incabulos represents. His priesthood dresses in black during services, with the eye of possession symbol in verdigrised bronze, repeated in dull orange on the robes of higher clerics. All vessels are of old bronze, carnelian, or bloodstone. The clergy of Incabulos and Nerull have a wary respect for each other, but do not cooperate unless faced with a common enemy. High-level clerics of Incabulos may substitute any of the following druidic spells for clerical spells of the same level: transmute water to dust (but not its reverse), wall of thorns, weather summoning, and creeping doom.

    (This is for AD&D®; some conversion may be necessary if you use a different rule set.)

    I also hold that the Rotting Eye euroz tribe, found primarily in the Lortmils and Yatils, holds Incabulos as its patron.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 17, 2006
    Posts: 21


    Send private message
    Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:01 am  

    Ah, I was already aware of your Deitybase, DMPrata! It's a very nicely done work! I particulary liked the division in the pantheons and information on more obscure deities (like the Olman and Touv pantheons, and some monstruous deities like Ravanna).

    Well, this blast the 1st question; 3 more to go!
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 652
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:34 pm  

    Thanks for citing to a gem of an article, GoldGreatWyrm. I hadn't read duicarthan's opus, which uses the Epic rules to complement a creative riff on an old mystery. Very nice indeed!

    Addressing your remaining three questions:

    First, if we accept duicarthan's article, then most churches on Oerth would likely have developed doctrines proscribing Sevelkhar / Incabulous as one of the great enemies. While the Church of the Blinding Light might not respect His Power but rather deem Him an arch-fiend, I think that most churches would have come to treat Him as a fell god, comparable to Nerull, over the centuries. (I don't think the Theocracy of the Pale would consider him Pholtus's nemesis but rather another sacrilege against the Blinding Light.)

    Second, Pelor and Beory would likely have acted against Incabulous's sudden manifestation on Oerth. I'd wonder whether the spell actually brought Incabulous the God to Oerth or only an Avatar / Aspect of Him. Because I'm unfamiliar with the Epic rules, despite the spell's description, the closest spell I know of is Gate, which is different because it doesn't imply a melding of planes but rather maintains even-as-it-breaches the planar barrier.

    Actually merging an Outer Plane with Oerth for more than a nanosecond seems like it should be impossible for mortals or gods (although Maldin's version of the Codex should be able to do it). After the planes' momentary complete correspondence, it seems to me that all of Hades should be back in its place, perhaps leaving Oerth devastated but not necessarily stranding Incabulous on Oerth.

    Perhaps he rode onto it after learning of it from his momentary "tastet"?

    Back to Beory, even though she is all but comatose, this scale of elemental disturbance seems enought to stir her. See Paul Stormberg's suggestion that the Oerth Mother once shattered the Elder Elemental God in his OJ interview of Gary Gygax (issues 12, iirc).

    Finally, I generally think that the gods used to Oerthwalk more frequently but have done so less as the Common Years progress. While mortals might understand it as a treaty, this is probably only an analogy and therefore suggests that not all the gods were "parties" or ratified it...
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 17, 2006
    Posts: 21


    Send private message
    Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:43 pm  

    Quote:
    First, if we accept duicarthan's article, then most churches on Oerth would likely have developed doctrines proscribing Sevelkhar / Incabulous as one of the great enemies. While the Church of the Blinding Light might not respect His Power but rather deem Him an arch-fiend, I think that most churches would have come to treat Him as a fell god, comparable to Nerull, over the centuries. (I don't think the Theocracy of the Pale would consider him Pholtus's nemesis but rather another sacrilege against the Blinding Light.)

    I thought about the arch-fiend view by the Pale as well. But a new question arrises: what is Sevelkhar? Another name for Incabulos?
    Quote:
    Second, Pelor and Beory would likely have acted against Incabulous's sudden manifestation on Oerth. I'd wonder whether the spell actually brought Incabulous the God to Oerth or only an Avatar / Aspect of Him. Because I'm unfamiliar with the Epic rules, despite the spell's description, the closest spell I know of is Gate, which is different because it doesn't imply a melding of planes but rather maintains even-as-it-breaches the planar barrier.

    Actually merging an Outer Plane with Oerth for more than a nanosecond seems like it should be impossible for mortals or gods (although Maldin's version of the Codex should be able to do it). After the planes' momentary complete correspondence, it seems to me that all of Hades should be back in its place, perhaps leaving Oerth devastated but not necessarily stranding Incabulous on Oerth.

    Perhaps he rode onto it after learning of it from his momentary "tastet"?

    Although it is possible to summon Unique outsider's through the Summon Seed, duicarthan's Invoked Devastation uses the Destruction Seed. It seems acceptable that the Suloise accidentally melded the Charnelhouse area of the Gray Wastes with the Baklunish Empire, thus allowing Incabulos entrance in Oerth.

    It seems that in this particular moment Incabulos himself walked in Oerth, but after the end of the spell he problably got back to Hades. After this point he may have seen in Oerth a brand new Prime World which he could help to assail with his evil, thus beggining to send Avatar's and Aspect's in order to propragate his presence in the Flanaess - and his worship.
    Quote:
    Finally, I generally think that the gods used to Oerthwalk more frequently but have done so less as the Common Years progress. While mortals might understand it as a treaty, this is probably only an analogy and therefore suggests that not all the gods were "parties" or ratified it...

    Well, this seems like a very good theory. After all, Vatun himself walked over Oerth in the early years of the Suel Barbarians of the Thiloriann Penisula, and some gods (like the troll/ogre deity Vaprak and Pelor himself) are said to sometimes wander the Prime (Vaprak smashing anything in his way, Pelor annihilating evil with bolts of light).
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 652
    From: on the way to Bellport

    Send private message
    Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:50 am  

    IIRC, Sevelkhar the Waster was named in the Tomb of Martek modules that my first DM placed in the Bright Desert and some GH fans have sited in the Sea of Dust.

    Similarly, some GH fans have held that Sevelkhar is a Bakluni (or Paynim) name for Incabulos.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 580
    From: British Isles

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:05 am  

    First off I don't know anything about the Epic rules so I'm just going ot post a couple of general thoughts...

    plague, famine and drought are all aspects of life that would have been just as significant pre-Cataclysm as post-Cataclysm...I like the idea that has been mentioned about the Devastation summoning Incabulous but I get the impression he would have been around much longer? Possibly worshipped by orcs and goblinoids.

    famines, plagues and droughts are not often permanent fixtures in life - things plod along then all of a sudden arg it's famine or oh no it's a plague...I see Incabulous as having been around a long long time but as he only periodically attempts to effect the Oerth with his disasters he manages to keep a low profile and avoid too much godly persecution. Perhaps he just chose the Invoked Devastation as an opportune moment to cause some strife? His infrequent activity also explains why he has few followers...if plagues happened everyday he would be much more widely worshipped I think.

    IMC he was first known on Oerth as Sevelkhar amongst the Paynim and amongst the goblinoids of the west (especially amongst the hobgoblins). The steppes were perfect for him to fulfill his portfolio of drought and famine in particular.

    I think it interesting that nightmares are included in his portfolio as they don't bear a direct link which indicates he either assumed this role later or maybe it was his original role and the others were gained later? The only connection I can make is the feverish nightmares that come to a plague bearer and often when you have nightmares you wake up sweating and hot as if you had a fever...plus more praxctically if you don't get good sleep you are more likely to succumb to illness!

    In, what I think (!), is an interesting side-note, Incabulous bears some similarities to the Mesopotamian god Nergal. Nergal was a god of plagues and in my mind there is a link between the feel of Mesopotamia and ancient Baklunish times. Interestingly Nergal was also a sun god...bu tof the specific phase of the sun at high noon and also at the summer solstice which were the times when the sun was at it's harshest which ties in with the drought aspect in particular. What if Selkhar was also a sun-god before the cataclysm? In the hot Baklunish west the sun would not have been a nurturing healing thing but a thing of harsh burning heat and drought...perhaps something happened during the Invoked Devastation that banished Selkhar to the darkness of Hades? Interestingly Nergal was also late ron the King of the Underworld where he was married to Erishkigal (who I believe is referrenced in D&D as an actual named demon?) Erishkigal was the queen of the underworld and Nergal offended her so was imprisoned in her domain...a bargain was struck in the end and the two powers ruled together. I really like the sound of that...perhaps during the Devastation, Incabulous ws trapped in Erishkigal's realm (by a rival, through the effects of the Devastation?) but made a truce with her? perhaps he even overthrew her and that is when he subsumed the portfolio of nightmare....oo maybe he has ties to Nerull as Nerull helped Incabulous in his plan in return for the lion's share of Erishkigal's power allowing him to gain further momopoloy on the realm of the Underworld? Perhaps Erishkigal is now trapped in her former home relegated tot he ranks of a fiend?

    just some food for thought...
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:33 am  

    The only real-world god I can think of who is associated with both bad dreams and plagues is the one who brought down the Ten Plagues of Egypt and gave the gift of dream-interpretation to Joseph and Daniel. This gives me all sorts of thoughts, but I probably shouldn't go there...

    The common thread behind Incabulos' spheres of influence is evil and woe. He's the source of all bad things, and could probably be compared to Ahriman. The Nergal comparison has occured to me, though, and I think the Ereshkigal to his Nergal ought to be Cegilune, the goddess of night hags from Monster Mythology; he could have gone to Hades to wrest control of the hag race from her in the same way Nergal wrested control of the Underworld.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

    Send private message
    Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:59 pm  

    Tharizdun merely holds the place of boogey-man. Incabulos is the real deal.

    When all the gods(good, neutral, and evil alike) hate you, except for happy-go-lucky Nerull(and even he is at least slightly wary), you know you are at the top of the big EVIL list. Oops, I left out that the Princes of Hades and the Arch-devils of Hell also all fear Incabulos.

    And how omnipresent is the church of Incabulos in the Flanaess? Yes, not very much, but that just goes to further illustrate how reviled Incabulos actually is. The merest mention of him is enough to make the bile rise in the throat of any non-Incabulos worshiper or god.

    Incabulos is not the ultimate evil power, but he is the ULTIMATE EVIL!
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2004
    Posts: 666


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:16 am  

    Yeah, IMC Incabulos is definitely the top dog on the bad guy food chain. Some here wrote an interesting piece to the effect that Tharizdun is not a single entity, but an ancient name for a collection of really bad things. I happen to like that alot and use it.

    So there is no "ultimate evil", just a slavering horde of icky things of which Incabulos is the easily the worst. No one has any tolerance for him and no one prays to him since its widely believed that he can't be appeased. Attracting his attention will simply bring you woe in some form or another.

    He is the only god whose worship is actually proscribed in most places IMC. (My general view being that no one (except fanatics like the Palish) wants to tick off any god by proscribing them, though the evil gods' priests might fall afoul of other laws.....)

    I have a lot more about Incabulos, but since I use a rather non standard cosmology, its probably more trouble than its worth to go into in this format.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.47 Seconds