I got a wild hair last night and decided to put up a political thread here but for Greyhawk!
It is 598 CY the 100th anniversary of Greyhawk's independence and Lord-Mayor Nerof Gasgal of Greyhawk City has been in charge of the Directing Oligarchy for 28 long years. He finally decides to retire at age 58 leaving the Mayor's seat vacant. As per the rules of the D.O. his Director spot does not need to be refilled at this time but a new Lord Mayor is soon to be chosen from among their remaining members. Since this is an internal matter and not like the city's Public Council elections we must first assume 2-3 candidates are nominated to be voted on by the whole of the D.O. So, who makes the nominations and who gets the mayorship and by what vote count?
The following is paraphrased from Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins, adjusted for 598 feel free to point out any new canon inconsistencies. Members with an asterisk are part of the 'Inner Circle' voting bloc, keep this in mind. Without Nerof there would be 17 votes to allocate.
Derider Fanshen (City Constable) Human female age 59. Unmarried, she had planned to retire in 592 (but for sake of this we will say she hung in there to have a shot at the mayorship). She is physically clumsy but personable, wise, warm and trusted by many. Her chief concerns are the poor of Greyhawk and homeless children in Old City. She is close to High Matriarch Sarana of Pelor and Jallarzi Sallavarian of the Circle of Eight. (Vital stats: Wis 18, Cha 16)
Tigran Gellner (Captain-General of the Watch) Human male age 53. Married to a priestess of Pholtus, Tigran is an intellectual commander credited with creating the Mountaineer Militia and Hardby Marines. He is respected by the Militia for his strictness, bluntness and sense of order. He has a good grasp of strategic concerns involving the defense of the Domain of Greyhawk, primarily the front against the Orcish Empire of the Pomarj. (Vital stats: Int 17, Cha 15)
Org Nenshen* (GM of the Guild of Thieves) Human male age 59. Has a live-in girlfriend. Bright, cheerful, confident, and outgoing. Org is an excellent planner, leader, and manager with a good grasp of organizational strategy (though he is a bit reckless). He is committed to destroying evil cults within the city. (Vital stats: Int 16, Cha 16)
Vesparian "Vesper" Lafanel* (GM of the Guild of Assassins) Elven male age @100, little is known of his background or his current personal life. Vesper is conservative, cold, professional, ruthlessly aggresive against perceived enemies of the city, his guild or him. He dislikes dwarves and is an intellectual sociopath. (Vital stats: Int 17, Cha 15)
Kieran Jalucian (GM of the Guild of Wizardry and the Principal of the Greyhawk U.M.A.) Human male apparent age 42. He is romantically interested in Jallarzi Sallavarian. Kieran is strong, handsome and one of the few archmages in residence. He rarely acts in the Directorship usually just listening in and offering his advice on magic-related topics. (Vital stats: nt 18, Wis 17, Cha 17)
Torrentz Hebvard (President of the Society of Magi) Human male age 88. Married to a minor but rich cleric of Zilchus. Torrentz is perhaps the most politically active wizard in the city, a strong advocate of political neutrality and nonintervention in foreign wars. He opposes Nyrond in many issues, but fears the United Kingdom of Ahlissa. He is also widely known to be active as an adventurer. (vital stats: Int 18)
Ravel Dasinder (Patriarch of Boccob) Human male age 80. Personal life unknown. Ravel speaks little and slowly, seeming uninvolved in most discussions. He does have unrivalled divination ability and knowledge of future events and trends (We shall assume he withholds any knowledge of the election outcome). He hates aggression and haste but can accept deviousness (Not surprising since he is an ally of Mordenkainen). His only concern is the security of Greyhawk. (Vital stats: Int 16, Wis 18)
Stakaster Villane (Patriarch of Zilchus) Human male age 61. Widower. Stakaster is a master of financial planning and economic projections. He is heavily relied upon by many in government and trade. He is a superb speaker and teacher but basically quiet and an introvert. (Vital stats: Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 17)
Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel (Matriarch of St. Cuthbert) Human female age 51, married/divorced five times. She is backed by the Nighwatchmen and many in the Greyhawk Militia and Watch. She is intolerant, very aggressive and outspoken on issues of defense, especially against the Empire of Iuz. She is at odds with those directors she thinks might be criminals or pacifists, making her the most hated person on the D.O.
Jerome Kasinskaia (Patriarch of Rao) Human male age 57. He says little in meetings but is extremely well informed on political and religious matters all over the Flanaess. He has superb judgment and is always truthful. He is a masterful speaker, diplomat and project leader thugh he usually keeps to himself. An ally of Bigby of the Circle of Eight. Might be considering retirement to Veluna (if not already done). (Vital stats: Wis 18, Cha 18)
Dernan Nathane* (GM of the Union of Merchants and Traders) Human male age 54. Secretly having an affair with Gerda Hollardel. Dernan is a popular and brilliant businessman (and smuggler). He is outgoing and charming, plus a well placed member of the Guild of Thieves. He knows the city inside and out. (Vital stats: Int 17, Cha 16)
Carmen Halmaster* (Representative of the UM&T) Human male age 64, single. Crippled during an assassination attempt years ago, Carmen is an inactive member of the Guild of Thieves and now deeply involved in the cloth trade. He is a genius at predicting changes in trade patterns. He greatly fears evil cults. (Vital stats: Int 17, Cha 15)
Cariel Mansharn* (Representative of the UM&T) Human male age 46, single. Replaced Ren o'the Star in 583CY. He is selfish, bright and closely follows Dernan Nathane and Carmen Halmaster in voting. He is a good troubleshooter on projects but has a nasty temper. (Vital stats: Int 16)
Stimtrin Cannasay (Representative of the UM&T) Dwarven male age 162, no personal life. Stimtrin replaced Laup Cobrun in 589CY and generally follows his fellow union members in voting. He does not speak except on specialized or technical trade issues. In this he tends to obsess on topics to the annoyance of others. He is repsected for his knowledge but is ignored otherwise. (Vital stats: Int 16, Wis 6, Cha 6)
Gerda Hollardel (GM of the Guild of Jewelers and Gemcutters) Human female age 39. Secretly having an affair with Dernan Nathane (co-smuggler also). She replaced her retired father Bodmi in 589CY. Gerda is brilliant and strong-willed, but gives cause for concern among some Directors for her inexperience, unreliability anf questionable judgment. (Vital stats: Int 17, Cha 16)
Sir Anton Palmirian (GM of the Guild of Lawyers, Scribes and Accountants) Human male age 77, divorced twice. Sir Anton seems pleasant but is a cold, calculating, ruthless individual with enormous political power and complete knowledge of Greyhawk's laws and court system. He is in failing health and is now vengeful, sociopathic and dangerous to cross. (Vital stats: Int 18)
Glodreddi Bakkanin* (Inspector of Taxes, Greyhawk Revenue Service) Dwarven male age over 100. Past history and personal life unkown. Glodreddi is feared and avoided by everyone in the city. He is a financial genius and a cold-hearted schemer who constantly looks for new ways to bilk the public out of money to fill Greyhawk's treasury. He is grossly corrupt even by Greyhawk's standards. He is vengeful and has a long memory. (Vital stats: Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 5)
Derider Fanshen - runs for the office and makes a good showing early on. Unfortunately, she is seen as a troublemaker by some (the corrupt ones), and is ruled out early on. She comes in third.
Tigran Gellner - is nominated by those with a strong interest in Greyhawk's stability (those with merchant-related interests) but doesn't really want the job. Once he decides to actively seek the position, his hardline views offend some as too 'hawkish' (pun intended) and his insistence on order doesn't help, either. He loses the election, coming in fourth.
Org Nenshen - doesn't run. Preferring to influence things from the shadows, he is active in influencing the votes of others indirectly, playing a masterful game of political chess.
Vesparian "Vesper" Lafanel* - doesn't run because he simply doesn't want the office. He takes no active role in the election other than to infrequently voice his opinion in occasional social gatherings.
Kieran Jalucian - expresses an interest in the position but is ruled out unanimously due to his failure to display the desired leadership qualities.
Torrentz Hebvard - is the most vocal candidate, but is unanimously rejected because his 'do nothing' approach to government fails to address anyone's pet issues. He receives no votes at all, in spite of attempting to sway public opinion.
Ravel Dasinder - is unanimously ignored as a potential candidate. His reserved ways simply don't bring him to mind when the others are thinking about choosing a new leader.
Stakaster Villane - runs at the request of his supporters. Unfortunately, his introverted personality causes his to miss opportunities that might gain him favor and he loses the election, coming in second.
Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel - runs as the 'justice candidate' but only succeeds in making everyone hate her more. She receives no votes at all and unknown parties attempt to assassinate her.
Jerome Kasinskaia - runs but is soon distracted by pressing matters elsewhere. By the time the election is held no one remembers he was running and he receives no votes.
Dernan Nathane - runs and wins by a slight margin. Part of his success is due to Gerda's support, part is due to his natural charm and popularity, and the majority is due to backroom manipulations by the thieves' guild.
Carmen Halmaster - doesn't run. He doesn't want the job and has enough to do already. His efforts are limited to supporting the positions dictated by the thieves' guild.
Cariel Mansharn - has no interest in running and leaves town when the political battle becomes too hot. He returns to vote, but then leaves again as soon as he is able.
Stimtrin Cannasay - vocally supports several of the candidates, arguing actively for those who support his guild's interests. Unfortunately, since no single candidate corners the market on guild interests he ends up confusing many by arguing in favor of multiple candidates.
Gerda Hollardel - actively supports Dernan. Her youthfulness and charm help Dernan's bid, but her unwillingness to seem 'too close' to him limits her usefulness.
Sir Anton Palmirian - takes an active role in supporting Dernan, but not until midway through the election. Thieves' guild supporters use his waning sanity to their benefit, masterfully manipulating him into becoming Dernan's strongest public supporter.
Glodreddi Bakkanin - approaches the election patiently, gauging each candidate on the basis of potential profitability. He ends up supporting Dernan in spite of - not because of - thieves' guild attempts to influence his opinion.
Who nominates? I'm going to say that anyone can nominate themselves or another.
Who gets nominated? I think there are six strong candidates:
Sir Artan Palmirian - The Ross Perot of Greyhawk has the money and connections to think he can win; he nominates himself but more out of his own sense of self than any real thought that he can win.
Dernan Nathane - He has merchant an thieves backing and is popular, plus he knows the city. A beltway candidate, he appeals to everybody but there is no real passion for his candidacy.
Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel - The Vladimir Putin of Greyhawk wants it but has a huge image problem. The question is how far is he willing to go to get the spot.
Org Nenshen - The front runner. A solid all around candidate, he has the all important thieves guild endorsement but splits actual support with Deran Nathane.
Derider Fanshen - The sympathic candidate who has the religious block nodding and splits the law-and-order vote with Tigran Gellner.
Tigran Gellner - The law-and-order candidate but not much of a politician beyond that, unless there is an active and immediate threat to Greyhawk.
The above imagines that the religious and magical types will steer clear of actively seeking the office as they have other concerns. What's more, after Zagig, there is an antipathy to have any dweomercrafter ever hold the Mayorial Office again.
Tigran Gellner and Derider Fanshen split the law-and-order vote. Gellner is seen as too much a one issue candidate and Fanshen is smeered as "soft" by Palmirian.
Palmirian is quickly eliminated as a serious candidate but he throws his support to Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel. Lanfanel also picks up support from Tigran Gellner, when the later is edged out by Derider Fanshen, who Gellner agrees/sees as too soft for the times.
Org Nenshen survives the initial balloting with ease. He is not elected mayor on the first ballot only because he splits the vote with Dernan Nathane and to a lesser degree Derider Fanshen.
Of the six candidates, four survive to the second round of balloting (in order of support) -
Fear of Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel, among liberals, and of Derider Fanshen, among conservatives, catalyzes the second ballot. As between Org Nenshen and Dernan Nathane, a deal is struck. Nenshen agrees to support Nathane, and more importantly act as a brake on Lanfanel, in return for Nathane's retirement from business and the thieves guild once elected mayor. Nathane agrees. Nenshen effectively neutralizes Lanfanel by winning away Tigran Gellner's support for Nathane. Gellner switches sides and is to be rewarded with high position as advisor to Nathane.
The second ballot looks like this -
Dernan Nathane comes in first with 1) the support of Org Nenshen, and thus the undivided support of the thieves and merchants, and 2) half the law-and-order vote with Tigran Gellner's support.
Derider Fanshen comes in a very close second with 1) solid religious support and 2) half the law-and-order vote.
Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel comes in a distant third, holding his own only with Palmirian's influence and money keeping him in the race.
On the third and final ballot, Palmirian and Lanfanel throw their support to Nathane to avoid a win by Fanshen, who has picked up support among the mages, who see Nathane as hopeless compromised between Nenshen and Gellner after the second ballot. In a squeeker, Dernan Nathane comes in first with enough votes to be elected Mayor. Derider Fanshen comes in a close second.
Winner - Dernan Nathane
Great thread, Mort! This could be a cool mini-campaign! Other scenarios? _________________ GVD
I think the nominees would come down to Derider Fanshen, Tigran Gellner, Eritai Kaan-Ipziel, Dernan Nathane and Stakaster Villane. Most of the rest are too unpopular, specialized, or feared, or are too involved in other concerns. Stakaster makes the cut because he is skilled and capable, but could be manipulated (introverts typically are). Of all, I think Dernan Nathane would win by a slight margin through his backdoor manipulations and those of his supporters. _________________ Greyhawk is dead; long live Greyahwk! It is not heresy; I will not recant!
Excellent responses! Looks like Dernan is the unanimous choice for future mayor so far. Hard to break up that Thieves Guild bloc. Can anyone buck the trend and come up with an alternate outcome?
If you look up Gerda Hollardel in the LGJ article on Clerkburg, you'll find that leaked knowledge of she and her retired father, Bodmi's past activities could potentially cause a scandal among the Directorship and that could pull down Nathane with her perhaps. She could easly be dismissed I suppose.
The only other campaign issues I can formulate that could sway this election is impending war on two fronts with the Pomarj and either Rary or Iuz at the same time. This helps the martial candidates.
A religious crisis, evil cults and whatnot could serve to polarize the cult fearing Directors and temple heads but in the end I think it would be back to business as usual for the city's rulers.
I'll reserve my final outcome until a few others have a chance to weigh in. And yeah GVD I do have another scenario in mind that takes place immediately after this election but I'm going to need some research time.
Security is important to the finance of any city, but in a city of thieves like Greyhawk, money talks, and influence rules. Besides, security costs money, and who wants to put their head on the block when they can rule the puppet on the throne? _________________ Greyhawk is dead; long live Greyahwk! It is not heresy; I will not recant!
Following up my first reply, after Nathane's election and because it was so close, I can imagine Lanfanel offering his services to remove Fanshen. In return, Lanfanel wants the Constable's job both for the obvious power and as an opportunity to improve his image. Of course, he would retain his guildmaster of assasin's position.
While Nathane would see the advantage of having the "opposition block" "rival" Fanshen done away with, he balks at giving Lanfanel the Constable spot. So, Lanfanel counter offers. He will also do away with Org Nenshen and with Nenshen out of the way 1) Nathane is relieved of his promise to give up his thieving and merchant positions and can 2) in fact become both guild master thieves and merchants. Lanfanel would then be guildmaster assassins and constable and Nanshen would be guildmaster thieves and merchants. Nenshen agrees and the deed is done.
Gellner, no fool, sees the new power blocks Nathane and Lanfanel have formed upon the deaths of Nenshen and Fanshen and positions himself as the alternative to either, backed by the military. Supporters flock to Gellner. Matters settle down as each of these three power blocks stabilize.
Nathane is Mayor, supported by Lanfanel and advised by Gellner, but he must constantly play Lanfanel off against Gellner or vice versa to get anything major done and every so often Gellner can force through policies over Nathane's objection, either with Lanfanel's support or with only his popular support among the other directors. The situation is tense but stable.
Lanfanel and Gellner, however, both see themselves as Nathane's eventual replacement and Nathane as a placeholder. Both Lanfanel and Gellner also see force as a viable alternative to proper election when the time comes (Gellner more reluctantly than Lanfanel), even as both would hope to avoid this. As Gellner has more popular support Lanfanel is more willing to resort to other means but then he is good at that and a commander like Gellner faces obvious dangers when he must at times tour the front and is then vulnerable. Lanfanel likes his chances but he needs to keep Nathane in power until he can repair his personal reputation via the constabulary, a job that puts him at potential odds with Nathane as head of the thieves guild. But Nathane is compromised by being both guildmaster thieves and merchants, the latter of whom look to the Constable for help.
Its a really nice political mess!!! _________________ GVD
Excellent post election intrigue GVD that's the stuff I dig most. I don't want to but I have to try and poke some holes in that post however. :P
From the infamous Greyhawk Folks, Feuds and Factions, the Assassins Guild (at least under Turin) is a bit more constrained than you'd think. Contracted assassinations of Greyhawkers is rare and most of their jobs involve troublesome outsiders in the city and lucrative assignments abroad. Citizens rarely hire the Guild because they know the GM is on the Directorship and they don't want the other rulers knowing who ordered who to be killed. This is only magnified if the intrigue starts in the boardroom. The government might shutdown if just one member were assassinated since all usually enjoy the comfortable unspoken truce of no assassinations. This is not to say the policy didn't change under Vesper (whose alignment is neutral iirc) but being a publicly known member of the Guild of Wizardry also, he would immediately be under the divinatory eye of Kieran Jalucian and Ravel Dasinder of Boccob, not to mention the other temple Directors who could launch investigations like the zealous Matriarch Ipzirel. Yes a mess indeed, and a scandal for Nathane in the making that could get him ran out on a rail.
The Blue Box version of the Assassins' Guild doesn’t lend itself to a group with political aspirations. I'm of the mind that Vesper wouldn't really care to be mayor anyways. The Assassins' Guild really only has a seat on the council due to their potential for bringing death. The organization is piddling in size, and is not really all that influential- they just pose a HUGE threat and so get a seat on the council out of respect, and it is surely important to keep them happy. That doesn't mean they can't get political, but running an entire city of this size would be a major nuisance for them, regardless of any implied threats to those who failed to properly serve under them.
Counter the Blue Box view of the Assassins' Guild with one more in line with "Gordhawk". The "Gordhawk" Assassins' Guild is a large organization made up of killers of all levels of ability, from thuggish murderers to true masters of the art of death(like Turin Deathstalker). This group surely wishes to have influence, and while they likely have a smaller membership than any other guild(except the Wizards guild perhaps), they are exceptionally dangerous and have goals and secret alliances that reach far beyond the walls of the city. I think this is a much more interesting version of the Assassins' Guild, and one that better suits the politics of the Oligarchy.
I agree that Dernan looks like the best connected individual to be the next mayor. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
[quote="mortellan"]Excellent post election intrigue GVD that's the stuff I dig most. I don't want to but I have to try and poke some holes in that post however. :P
From the infamous Greyhawk Folks, Feuds and Factions, the Assassins Guild (at least under Turin) is a bit more constrained than you'd think. Contracted assassinations of Greyhawkers is rare and most of their jobs involve troublesome outsiders in the city and lucrative assignments abroad. Citizens rarely hire the Guild because they know the GM is on the Directorship and they don't want the other rulers knowing who ordered who to be killed. This is only magnified if the intrigue starts in the boardroom. The government might shutdown if just one member were assassinated since all usually enjoy the comfortable unspoken truce of no assassinations. This is not to say the policy didn't change under Vesper (whose alignment is neutral iirc) but being a publicly known member of the Guild of Wizardry also, he would immediately be under the divinatory eye of Kieran Jalucian and Ravel Dasinder of Boccob, not to mention the other temple Directors who could launch investigations like the zealous Matriarch Ipzirel. Yes a mess indeed, and a scandal for
No problem.
Cebrion wrote:
The Blue Box version of the Assassins' Guild doesn’t lend itself to a group with political aspirations. . . . Counter the Blue Box view of the Assassins' Guild with one more in line with "Gordhawk". The "Gordhawk" Assassins' Guild is a large organization made up of killers of all levels of ability, from thuggish murderers to true masters of the art of death(like Turin Deathstalker). This group surely wishes to have influence, and while they likely have a smaller membership than any other guild(except the Wizards guild perhaps), they are exceptionally dangerous and have goals and secret alliances that reach far beyond the walls of the city. I think this is a much more interesting version of the Assassins' Guild, and one that better suits the politics of the Oligarchy.
Cool.
I kinda latched onto Vesper from Mort's initial writeup and that morning having read in the newspaper about how Putin used "tradecraft" on Bush to convince him that he (Putin) was a "kindred spirit" to Bush, when in fact he is a hardline Russian nationalist, as he now appears. I kinda saw Vesper as a "KGB" type and wondered "what if he decided he wanted to run the show" upon the old mayor leaving office. Things then just wrote themselves. _________________ GVD
As I view it; the main candidates are Dernan Nathane and Org Nenshen rather then rehash the thread, some trends come to the fore.
Thieves faction position is particularly strong; given which of the above candidates are given support could simply be a matter of the guild deciding if it wants the public face to remain known or given the new military reality a gentler public image is needed.
The mage faction has not the interest or support to run the complex commericial metropolis.
The religious facion is far from united; I can see patriarch of rao and zilchus supporting Dernan Nathane; given the ease of transition and commericial ability rather then a strident matriarch of st. cuthbert which would upset the social order and damage the commericial interests, especially in the short term.
The military faction is represented by Tigran Gellner who has the security issue. While the city constable has the "social" issue given the military increase and orcish threat Gellner has backing but without strong merchant support it is more likely Dernan Nathane can gain military support by pledging a more robust military policy and support for the recent victims.
The merchant faction protects the profits; economic power of greyhawk and the economic problems eastward, I see the merchants backing whoever promises a stable trade policy.
The assassin faction represented by Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel is not a viable candidate. Even if he wanted the position which is open to debate if one considers the make up of the guild and the awful results of high profile members like turin deathstalker. His known dislike of "dwarves" hinders support among the merchant members, military and some religious members eager for harmony.
Winning Candidate
With strong thieves and commercial support, he promises to bolster defense and maintain the current social harmony and tolerance of the city to gain some military, mage and religious support.
Yeah I can appreciate the Putin idea of GVD's it leads into Cebrion's notion of the Gordhawk view of the Assassins. And that is certainly good but if assassins were too prevalent/active that could stunt economic growth of the city because GH would be seen as too dangerous to do business in. In the very least there would still have to be a truce on the Oligarchy IMO.
Anyhoo I'll concede Dernan Nathane is the next mayor. He is the odds on favorite. Here is my alternate result for variety:
To eliminate Dernan Nathane's landslide nomination his involvement with Gerda Hollardel in smuggling gems is exposed (in a timely fashion) and he remains lucky to hold his Oligarch seat. He thus defaults in support to the Inner council, staying mum.
As an aside, Nerof's decision to retire was partly influenced by his discovery of a long lost daughter Xerian Albhart (who works in Turin's Servant Agency). She could be used by enemies as blackmail so his retirement was partly to protect her.
With this set up, Org would face Tigran Gellner the military candidate nominated by Ipzirel. The inner council however all vote for him knowing that if one of their bloc remains in power they all will (6 votes). His position as GM of Thieves also ensures the criminal element can remain artifically controlled so Tigran Gellner can focus on the Pomarj and Derider Fanshen can retire without fear of putting a replacement into a city gripped with crime (Tigran and Derider still vote against him but they are easily appeased later). Org's mandate to root out evil cults wins the respect of the temple heads even if it is obviously pandering (3 votes). Only Ipzirel of St Cuthbert is still skeptical of the corrupt Guildmaster. Jalucian and Torrenz are won over by more campaign promises to keep the city neutral and to invest more in the city's centers of learning (acquiring lore and artifacts from the new boom at Castle Greyhawk is one way)(2 Votes). The rest vote in line with their associates or just realize Org's superior position and relent(3 votes). So I have Org winning craftily 14 to 3 with Tigran gallantly withdrawing so he can get back to work on the defense of the domain.
Epilogue: Org Nenshen's live-in girlfriend is Zartis Deen (pg 88 GH:tAB). She is secretly a doppleganger with no current plans to kill and replace anyone. Could this change soon? No one would notice if the rich playboy Org Nenshen let another girlfriend go....
I like the individual, member by member breakdown. I was dealing with generalities in my thoughts. A very different result might naturally occur when each vote is analyzed individually. _________________ GVD
Yeah I broke it down more so that I -could- get a different result as you say. I still kinda kept it to certain voting blocs though. In general I am with the consensus that Dernan Nathane is the smart choice to lead, to get any other result it seems one needs to include variables like I did.
The only problem with Org Nenshen winning is that according to the "Blue Box CoG". Org Nenshen doesn't want the job; he is more concerned with the workings and possible divisions within the Thieves Guild.
He even dislikes his role as oligarch especially given gasgal high profile and would rather have a "trusted" oligrach as mayor and lower the guilds public exposure. One of these "trusted" oligarchs is Dernan Nathane.
I can see org and gasgal using Dernane as a public relation front.
Tigran Gellner "Blue Box CoG" beyond maintaining a strong military, he has no political ambition or desire to take control of the city.
You may be right about Org, but IIRC Tigran, in the BB, was merely the leader of the Cairn Hills detachment. I think it was in The Adventure Begins that Sental Nurev moves on and Tigran is promoted. If he had no political ambition how(or why) did he end up on the Directing Oligarchy? The rules state as my next planned thread will eventually show, that departing Directors do not have to be replaced(Though they often are). Tigran certainly only has defense on his mind, whatnot with creating the Marines and the Mountaineers, etc. but even he knows being Mayor could give him the leverage to do so much more than those thieves and merchants will allow. As an added thought, take or leave it, the old Assassins GM, Turin Deathstalker quit to go fight in Safeton. I suppose that would make him a Tigran supporter. Turin's political clout has to still count for something.
It has happened before that people develop a taste for power especially if a spoiler like Sir Anton Palmirian works on his desire for security and Eritai Kaan-Ipzirel on the law angle but I still don't see the merchants jepardizing the trade and profits.
...The Assassins' Guild really only has a seat on the council due to their potential for bringing death...
-The Assassins Guild is also functions as Greyhawk's intellignce/operations directorate.
...Which leads to:
GVDammerung wrote:
...I kinda saw Vesper as a "KGB" type and wondered "what if he decided he wanted to run the show" upon the old mayor leaving office...
vs.
Cebrion wrote:
The Blue Box version of the Assassins' Guild doesn’t lend itself to a group with political aspirations. I'm of the mind that Vesper wouldn't really care to be mayor anyways...
..I'd agree with this:
Crag wrote:
...The assassin faction represented by Vesparian "Vesper" Lanfanel is not a viable candidate. Even if he wanted the position which is open to debate if one considers the make up of the guild and the awful results of high profile members like turin deathstalker. His known dislike of "dwarves" hinders support among the merchant members, military and some religious members eager for harmony...
...he might want power behind the scene, but I doubt he'd want the publicity, or to make himself a target.
As I mentioned in the associated election thread, Living Greyhawk did a daring political storyline near the end of the campaign's run. I am not sure how it played out, but I want to say Dernan Nathane was chosen as Mayor as we expected here.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
