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    Canonfire :: View topic - Do dates on the Prime and dates on the Outer Planes match?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Do dates on the Prime and dates on the Outer Planes match?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
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    Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:45 am  
    Do dates on the Prime and dates on the Outer Planes match?

    I'd like to make a timeline with Oerth history and Sigil history combined...
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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    From: Neck Deep in the Viscounty of Verbobonc

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    Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:30 pm  

    Good luck. According to the Manual of the Planes, page 10, time moves at different rates on some planes.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:57 pm  

    It does flow at different rates on some planes (for example, Porpherio's Garden from Beyond the Crystal Cave, and "the City beyond the Gate" in Dragon #100), but it flows at the same rate on both Oerth and Sigil.

    587 CY in Oerth's time is equivalent to year 127 in the reign of Hashkar in Sigil, judging on the events noted in The Planewalker's Handbook and elsewhere. The official current year on Oerth (according to Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk) is 597 CY, which is ten years later in Sigil as well. The Faction War took place in Hashkar 130, or 590 CY; after that, the people started counting the time since the Lady's Edict, so 591 CY (the time that The Adventure Begins, Doomgrinder, and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer were set) was Lady's Edict 1, and 597 CY is 7 LE.

    However, note that Oerth has a 364 day year. Sigil has no official calendar, so if you decide its year is also 364 days (as Ken Lipka did on this site), there will be no discrepancy. If you decide that Sigil's year is longer or shorter, you'll have to take that into account.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:10 pm  
    Re: Do dates on the Prime and dates on the Outer Planes matc

    AnimeFan wrote:
    I'd like to make a timeline with Oerth history and Sigil history combined...


    There used to be a “Unified Timeline of the Spheres” by Paul Westermeyer online, but the site seems to have disappeared.

    I did find a spelljammer timeline by the same guy, however: http://www.spelljammer.org/essays/history/pw_timeline.html
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
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    From: Germany

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    Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:49 am  

    Rip did a massive planar timeline.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:31 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    587 CY in Oerth's time is equivalent to year 127 in the reign of Hashkar in Sigil, judging on the events noted in The Planewalker's Handbook and elsewhere.


    This is actually based on the assumption that Die, Vecna, Die! (published in the summer of 2000) takes place in 591 CY (which was considered the "current year" on Oerth from 1998-2001) and in Sigil this was the year after the Faction War adventure in Planescape (which was published in November 1998).

    The adventure itself seems vague. It was long enough after the Faction War that the Sodkillers have begun patrolling the streets as the Harmonium once did (but nastier), but the Armory is still in ruins and the Sodkillers are as yet very new and uncertain.

    So I think setting Die, Vecna, Die! in 1 LE is reasonable (and means I don't have to recalculate all my Oerth dates!).
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:42 pm  

    9413 BCY The wizard Shekelor dies after trying to retrieve the Labyrinth Stone from Pandemonium.
    422 BCY The Invoked Devastation and the Rain of Colorless Fire on Oerth.
    411 BCY The githyanki lich-queen Vlaakith CLVI is slain by the first of the devourers, Xynfyrit. (Dragon #355) Vlaakith CLVII is crowned queen of the githyanki.
    Circa 400 BCY The Expansionist faction in Sigil mazed by the Lady of Pain.
    394 BCY Fraternity of Order officially becomes a faction. The Transcendent Order impulsively follows soon after.
    357 BCY Vecna banishes Kas to Citadel Cavitius before his corporeal form is destroyed by Kas's last blow. Vecna must have taken Citadel Cavitius from the Doomguard at some point before this.
    Circa 120 BCY Society of Sensation formed, initially as a social club. Within twenty-five years they're one of the most popular factions, though without a factol.
    Circa 39 BCY The Great Upheaval in Sigil. The Mercykillers form from the Sons of Mercy and Sodkiller factions. The Doomguard becomes an official faction (again), and becomes Sigil's official city guard.
    87 CY Knights of Harmony found the Harmonium on the world of Ortho.
    Circa 394 CY Harmonium sets up shop in Sigil and wars with the Doomguard. At the end, the Harmonium are the city guard and the Doomguard in charge of the Armory.
    Circa 395 CY The Fated seizes control of "Bigby's College" in Sigil, citing overdue taxes. Note: I would change this to Keoghtom's College, since he's a Greyhawk spellcaster with known planar connections who would've at least been alive at the time.
    460 CY Graz'zt bound by Iggwilv.
    491 CY Graz'zt banished by Iggwilv to the Abyss for a hundred years.
    505 CY Nine demigods imprisoned beneath Castle Greyhawk by Zagig Yragerne and friends.
    561 CY Mordenkainen and Bigby lay the foundation of the Citadel of Eight.
    569 CY Battle of Emridy Meadows, Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure.
    570 CY Iuz freed by Robilar, Quij, and Riggby in Castle Greyhawk.
    572 CY Erac's Cousin and Ayelerach free Fraz-Urb'luu from beneath Castle Greyhawk.
    576 CY Against the Giants/Drow. Lolth's creates bubble over Istivin before her plans are checked by a band of adventurers venturing into her Demonweb.
    579 CY Orcus's wand stolen by Gareth Dragonsbane and his party. Kiaransalee kills Orcus. Zuggtmoy freed from the Temple of Elemental Evil.
    581 CY Vecna Lives!
    583 CY Graz'zt freed from his banishment slightly early when Iggwilv summons him again. Graz'zt breaks free of the summoning circle and drags Iggwilv into Azzagrat with him.
    585 CY Iggwilv freed by Tuerny. Events of Return of the Eight.
    586 CY Well of Worlds. The Eternal Boundary. In the Abyss.
    587 CY Orcus resurrected as undead god Tenebrous. The Great Modron March begins. The Factol's Manifesto published. Harbinger House. Fires of Dis. The events of Planescape: Torment take place.
    588 CY The events of the novels Finder's Bane and Tymora's Luck. Doors to the Unknown. Something Wild. Hellbound: The Blood War.
    589 CY The Great Modron March ends. Dead Gods begins. Orcus dies a second time and is brought back to life by Quah-Namog as a non-divine demon lord. Tenebrous becomes a vestige.
    590 CY Tales From the Infinite Staircase. Waukeen freed from Graz'zt's clutches. Faction War.
    591 CY Star Cairns, Tomb of Lyzandred the Mad, Doomgrinder, Return to the Tomb of Horrors, Die, Vecna, Die!. The Codex of the Infinite Planes is recovered (Epic Level Handbook).
    593 CY The lich-queen Vlaakith is destroyed (the Incursion campaign in Dungeon #100).
    594 CY Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, "Touch of the Abyss" (Dungeon #117)
    595 CY Shackled City adventure path. Adimarchus slain.
    596 CY Age of Worms adventure path. Kyuss slain. Glasya takes the throne of Malbolge.
    597 CY Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. The Savage Tide adventure path. Demogorgon slain.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:58 pm  

    Shackled City begins in 594, AoW in 595, & Savage Tide in 596 CY. And I believe RttToEE officially takes place in 591 CY.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:51 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    Shackled City begins in 594, AoW in 595, & Savage Tide in 596 CY.


    Ah, yeah, they begin during those years. It's worth noting that the climax of Savage Tide explicitly takes place at the same time as Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, though.

    Quote:
    And I believe RttToEE officially takes place in 591 CY.


    You would think so, given it's a 2001 book, but it explicitly takes place fifteen years after Temple of Elemental Evil (see page 3), which takes place ten years after the Battle of Emridy Meadows, which happened in 569 CY. 569+10=579+15=594.
    Novice

    Joined: Jan 06, 2005
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    From: Espoo, Finland

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    Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:36 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    [
    579 CY Orcus's wand stolen by Gareth Dragonsbane and his party. Kiaransalee kills Orcus.

    Hmm. How did you arrive by these dates? By my calculations, going from the "Magic in the Evening" connection, would be 580 CY for these. It's a Wizards Three article from Dragon #185 that implies the FR novel The Parched Sea takes place just before Vecna Lives!, which would make 1360 DR roughly equivalent to 581 CY. Any Forgotten Realms timeline will tell us that Gareth Dragonsbane did his stuff in 1359 DR, which would then equal to 580 CY. Or have you adjusted for the one day difference in year length?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:33 am  

    I calibrated the calendars using For Duty & Deity to sync Forgotten Realms with Planescape, and Die, Vecna, Die! to sync Planescape with Greyhawk. For Duty & Deity and Tales From the Infinite Staircase were marketed as crossovers with one another, and various ways to link the two adventures were described.

    127 in the reign of Hashkar was 1995 in our world, and the Planescape timeline went forward a year every year thereafter, so Faction War, For Duty & Deity, and Tales From the Infinite Staircase (all published in 1998) were in Hashkar 130. For Duty & Deity takes place in late 1370 DR.

    Therefore, 130 Hashkar = 1370 Dale Reckoning.

    My methodology with Die, Vecna, Die! is recounted above, so 130 Hashkar = 590 CY, and 1370 Dale Reckoning = 590 CY.

    I wasn't aware of a concrete connection in "The Wizards Three," but it looks like things are close enough that they might be fudged one way or the other.
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