I'm wondering about Dragotha's age (i.e. is he/she a Great Wyrm), sex, color, and alignment, and any other miscelaneous facts about him/her... thank you! - AnimeFan (this is the Dracolich that Lyzandred the Mad is an opponent to...)
I believe Dragotha made a big appearance in the Age of Worms adventure path in Dungeon magazine issue 134. I haven't read the whole adventure but they square Dragotha off with the PCs. Dragotha is a male wyrm, red dragon dracolich, CR 27, AC 58, hp 832, align. NE. They give his complete stats including treasure. The module is listed for level 19th though there are suggestions for scaling the adventure to go as low as 17th level. _________________ Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
I'm wondering about Dragotha's age (i.e. is he/she a Great Wyrm), sex, color, and alignment, and any other miscelaneous facts about him/her... thank you! - AnimeFan (this is the Dracolich that Lyzandred the Mad is an opponent to...)
Dragotha's A/S/L is "2500+/Male/the Wormcrawl Fissure, near Rift Canyon." He was a red dragon, Tiamat's greatest consort, but fell out of favor with her & was cast from her realm. He was made a dracolich by Kyuss, and served as his general 1500 years ago, before his phylactery was stolen & hidden by the druidic Order of the Storm.
Not all sources agree on Dragotha's current ago. From the Age of Worms AP we know that he dealt with Kyuss before he became a demigod. From various sources we know he spent time in Hell as the consort of Tiamat. We know that when Tiamat tired of him Kyuss changed him into his current undead form. Supposedly, Kyuss ascended to deityhood shortly thereafter. Unfortunately, that's where it gets sticky. Some place Kyuss' ascension about 500 years ago, some around 1000 years ago, some 2500 years ago, and some more than 5000 years ago - often these estimates are drawn from estimates of the demise of Sulm (Kyuss' birthplace), but there again sources don't agree.
With that in mind, here's what I think: The AoW puts Dragotha in his undead form fighting a major battle in behalf of Kyuss 1500 years ago. It is reasonable to assume that Dragotha's time as consort to Tiamat was not brief (in human terms) since we're dealing with immortals in that situation. Likely, Dragotha spent centuries with her, which would put him at his pre-undead peak during the lifetime of Kyuss - which suggests he was meeting with Kyuss while still in service to Tiamat. Since he was described as the greatest of his kind before traveling to Hell, we have the following: 1500 years ago (Dragotha's historic battle) + a few centuries (Dragotha's service to Tiamat) + around 1200 years (the age of a great wyrm dragon) = somewhere around 3000 years old. IMC, I made him just over 5000 years old.
Dragotha was originally just a name on a map in the module White Plume Mountain, dwelling in the Great Effluvial Swamp. Dragon went on to detail him in an article and listed him as (in 3e terms) a fiendish red dragon former consort of Tiamat, and moved his lair to the Cold Marshes.
The recent Dungeon adventure stuck with the red dragon theme but moved him back in the vicinity of White Plume Mountain and made him an ancient servant of Kyuss.
WotC also did a web enhancement for White Plume Mountain with a black dragon version of Dragotha as well as stats for Thingizzard the witch. Personally I've always scratched my head as to why they chose a red dragon template given that he always seems to dwell in cold, desolate swamps. I think it was largely because red dragons are more powerful and they wanted him to be tough, which does a disservice to black dragons in my view!
With that in mind, here's what I think: The AoW puts Dragotha in his undead form fighting a major battle in behalf of Kyuss 1500 years ago. It is reasonable to assume that Dragotha's time as consort to Tiamat was not brief (in human terms) since we're dealing with immortals in that situation. Likely, Dragotha spent centuries with her, which would put him at his pre-undead peak during the lifetime of Kyuss - which suggests he was meeting with Kyuss while still in service to Tiamat. Since he was described as the greatest of his kind before traveling to Hell, we have the following: 1500 years ago (Dragotha's historic battle) + a few centuries (Dragotha's service to Tiamat) + around 1200 years (the age of a great wyrm dragon) = somewhere around 3000 years old. IMC, I made him just over 5000 years old.
The stats in Dungeon have him as being a wyrm, not a great wyrm, which I think (from reading some of the messages on the Paizo boards) was done for two reasons--so he'd "fit" on the tactical map (red wyrms are gargantuan, while great red wyrms are colossal), & so his CR wouldn't be too high for a 19th-20th level party (I believe it'd be 29 instead of 27, were he a great red undead wyrm). When my players encounter him, I plan to make Dragotha a great wyrm. Tiamat would settle for nothing less.
Dragotha was originally just a name on a map in the module White Plume Mountain, dwelling in the Great Effluvial Swamp. Dragon went on to detail him in an article and listed him as (in 3e terms) a fiendish red dragon former consort of Tiamat, and moved his lair to the Cold Marshes...
-What, he didn't like his old neighbors?
PaulN6 wrote:
WotC also did a web enhancement for White Plume Mountain with a black dragon version of Dragotha as well as stats for Thingizzard the witch...
-I think I remember seeing somwhere that they inerpreted her as a night hag.
PaulN6 wrote:
Personally I've always scratched my head as to why they chose a red dragon template given that he always seems to dwell in cold, desolate swamps. I think it was largely because red dragons are more powerful and they wanted him to be tough, which does a disservice to black dragons in my view!
Robbastard wrote:
...The stats in Dungeon have him as being a wyrm, not a great wyrm, which I think... was done for two reasons--so he'd "fit" on the tactical map... & so his CR wouldn't be too high for a 19th-20th level party... When my players encounter him, I plan to make Dragotha a great wyrm. Tiamat would settle for nothing less.
-In which case, maybe Dragotha should have been a black dragon all along.
I guess it's too late to go back and "correct" the canon? Or maybe "Dragotha" is merely a title, meaning "Tiamat's Latest Squeeze", in which case there could be several "Dragotha's"; since they'd all be magic using, at least a few of them would have become liches...
-I think I remember seeing somwhere that they inerpreted her as a night hag.
A greenhag, actually. Download "Outside the Mountain" from here.
The black dragon version from that document is also a wyrm, rather than a great wyrm.
Note also that the red dragon version from Dungeon #134 lives in Rift Canyon, rather than a swamp, although it states that he has numerous lairs.
While several of Tiamat's former consorts have been named, they all (except for those who are Babylonian gods) are red dragons. The other two former red dragon consorts are Ephelomon (originally mentioned in A Guide to the Astral Plane as the dragon responsible for the pact with the githyanki race) and Etiol (in the Epic Level Handbook). The existence of both cast doubt on Dragotha being Tiamat's "greatest" consort.
In conversation with Erol Otus last week, he mentioned that Dragotha was originally inspired by Dave Hargrave's Arduin games (Erol gamed with Hargrave), since Dave had undead dragons in his games long before they showed up in D&D (and Dragotha was clearly the catalyst for that). _________________ Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
In Living Greyhawk, I believe that Chris Tulach, now RPGA dude, did a lot of Dragotha research/writing. IIRC, his email address/IM moniker included "dragotha", much like Jason Bulhman's had included "Iuz" before him (Tulach succeeded Jason as Iuz metaregional Circle rep).
Anyhow, it may be possible to contact Tulach and ask him what his thoughts were on Dragotha. Britt Frey, final Iuz metaregional circle rep, may also have some thoughts on the matter as some of the final Iuz metaregional plotlines were to resolve around Dragotha, iirc.
Also, Mona's Age of Worms adventure path that was set in the BK, during which, iirc, the PCs fight Kyuss, Prince Zeech, and Dragotha, may contain some ideas. Note that that adventure WAS NOT considered canon by the Living Greyhawk campaign (Mona never contacted the BK triad or the Circle to collaborate on this project, afaik).
Casey
former BK Triad
P.S. If Dragotha was a red that lived in the Rift Canyon, I think I know who Morginstaler's daddy would be!!! (see Oerth Journal #20)
I believe Dragotha was already undead when he moved to the Rift Canyon.
IIRC the Dragon article on Dragotha said his lair was north of Iuz, most likely in reference to the WPM map just giving a general pointer to the direction not distance.
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