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    Canonfire :: View topic - Gnomes in the World of Greyhawk
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    Gnomes in the World of Greyhawk
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
    Posts: 16
    From: Chicago,Illinois

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:18 pm  
    Gnomes in the World of Greyhawk

    So while I was briefly on Greytalk last night, we remarked the lack of much material on Gnomes in the World of Greyhawk.

    I am interested in knowing what's out there. Any thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Enoch Pratt
    AKA Tim O'Donnell

    "I saw that my life was a vast glowing empty page and I could do anything I wanted"
    ~Jack Kerouac, The Dharma Bums
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 14, 2009
    Posts: 171
    From: Laporte IN.

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:19 pm  

    Their some info on the "gnomes of the Kron Hills" in the book The Adventure Begins. Also the Stark Mounds in the southern area of Geoff has 13 clans of gnomes.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
    Posts: 951
    From: Neck Deep in the Viscounty of Verbobonc

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:17 pm  

    When it comes to gnomes, "the lack of much material" very nearly equates with "the lack of ALL material". But gimme a few weeks and I'll see what I can do about that. ;-)
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3835
    From: So. Cal

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:21 pm  

    There are the gnomes of Oznabralt. That location may have first been introduced in the Vecna series, but I seem to recall seeing it and other settlements marked out on a map somewhere else too. There are also the gnome of the Gnome Vale in "The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" supplemental area material. Many supplements mention gnomes, just usually not in any great detail. The Battle of Emridy Meadows is one such case.

    I'll assume that the focus is surface gnomes, not Svirfneblin. Heck, might as well include them as well. There is a side cavern of them in GDQ along the main route, and if you have set the UK series of adventures in Greyhawk, there are svirfneblin in "When a Star Falls".
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:37 pm  

    Don't forget Keraptis's personal bodyguard of deranged gnomes. The community from which they came gave Keraptis Whelm sometime in the 3 enturies following the people of Tostenhca throwing him out.

    Interesting tidbit - according to the LGG Rock gnomes didn't migrate into the southern Flanaess from the remote wooded highlands of the north until "a few centuries before the Invoked Devastation."
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3310
    From: Michigan

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:39 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:

    Interesting tidbit - according to the LGG Rock gnomes didn't migrate into the southern Flanaess from the remote wooded highlands of the north until "a few centuries before the Invoked Devastation."


    Though that doesn't work with the Keraptis history, since Keraptis originally gathered his gnome bodyguards 2000-1600 years ago (since they were exiled from Tostenhca with him - Erik Mona's history has them vow fealty to him 2000 years ago, the first to do so, though technically it could be only 1600 years ago, going strictly by canon). And they do seem to be rock gnomes, since their descendants live in White Plume Mountain to this day. They might have been an earlier migration than the main one, perhaps.

    I kind of think there were primarily two gnomish migrations, one where they were driven south by the formation of the Land of Black Ice, and one where they were driven south by the formation of the Burning Cliffs and the northern waste. This probably happened at two different times, thought the formation of the Land of Black Ice does seem to roughly coincide with the time of the Suel-Baklunish wars.

    There's a fair amount about gnomes in canon, actually. It's found in small doses, but it's there. I'd start here.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:31 pm  

    I thought that too at first, but then realized Tostenhca is pretty far north and near wooded highlands. It doesn't really say how far north, so I think it works, although I do like your migration ideas, especially the Land of Black Ice.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:53 pm  

    That is possible. I'd been assuming the gnomes were from really far north - maybe even Telchuria - but you're right, Tostenhca is pretty northernly. Keraptis's exile with what must have been a breeding population of his gnomish bodyguards might represent an early southern migration of a sort, but not a very large-scale one.

    One of the Living Greyhawk columns placed gnomes in Onnwal circa 5000 years ago, but I suppose these could be a different kind of gnome.

    Dragon #241 placed gnomes near the Hellfurnaces in 1600 BCY, but these were almost certainly svirfneblin, I think.

    Whelm was originally a dwarf-forged weapon, if we're to believe the 3.5 revised version of White Plume Mountain. I wonder how the gnomes got it? They could have been gifted it as allies of the dwarves, maybe, or they may have seized it as allies of the tyrant Keraptis.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
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    From: Chicago,Illinois

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    Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:36 pm  

    Thanks all. These are great leads.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003
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    From: Boston

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    Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:32 pm  

    Here's some info about gnomes from Iuz the Evil.

    From the section "Other Vesve Locations"--
    "Gildenhand: This is the largest gnome copper and silver mine, and also yields a few gems. The 670 gnomes here are noted for their tough scouts and excellent defense entrenchments."

    In the "Perdition" section, there are gnomish silver mines in the Bluff Hills that are described as: "...a tiny handful of pitiful gnomish endeavors on the brink of extinction."

    From the "Groaning Mines" section:
    "The Howling Hills contain around half a dozen mines, but this is easily the most important, yielding half of the electrum and copper which Iuz extracts from this unpromising land. The work force are largely dwarf and gnome slaves, dragged from the Rift Canyon, the Vesve hills on rare raids there, or from the Bluff Hills. Because replacements are so hard to find, the demihumans are not treated with the full brutality which would otherwise be expected from their Urzun slavemasters. Ogres are also used to excavate new veins of ore."

    HTH.

    Casey
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
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    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:14 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    That is possible. I'd been assuming the gnomes were from really far north - maybe even Telchuria - but you're right, Tostenhca is pretty northernly. Keraptis's exile with what must have been a breeding population of his gnomish bodyguards might represent an early southern migration of a sort, but not a very large-scale one.

    One of the Living Greyhawk columns placed gnomes in Onnwal circa 5000 years ago, but I suppose these could be a different kind of gnome.

    Dragon #241 placed gnomes near the Hellfurnaces in 1600 BCY, but these were almost certainly svirfneblin, I think.

    Whelm was originally a dwarf-forged weapon, if we're to believe the 3.5 revised version of White Plume Mountain. I wonder how the gnomes got it? They could have been gifted it as allies of the dwarves, maybe, or they may have seized it as allies of the tyrant Keraptis.


    Yeah svirfneblin are a good bet for the Hellfurnace gnomes.

    I do really like the Telchuria idea or just the gnomes fleeing encroaching Black Ice. I suppose Keraptis could have brought a group of gnomes from Telchuria as guards, when he adventured there at some point.

    The headland gnomes might be forest gnomes, since the LGG specifies rock gnomes as being the group that migrated south. Maybe there were very small scattered bands of forest gnomes before the main gnomish populations migrated south. But then I don't remember ever seeing forest gnomes mentioned in GH.

    The Whelm info given with Ctenmiir in Open Grave says Whelm's main motivation is hunting goblins, trolls and giant. Maybe the dwarves that made it weren't living up to its goals so it moved on to a clan of gnomes who were?
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