I've ran almost-canon Greyhawk campaign for about year now and recently my players managed to save the lives of a few members of Dispatchers. Now they have a chance to join the organisation and I'm trying to get as canon as I can.
and also read info from Greyhawk Gazetteer, Sword & Fist and 2e Players' Guide.
I've got an image of a LG guerrilla-fighting organization which welcomes stealthy-type of characters. However I feel a bit disappointed about this, because my players are mostly neutral and the "leader" is CG. But they are highly skilled in these sort of black ops missions.
Generally I find it a bit confusing how an organization will first "rebel" against knightly values, then start an unconventional war and they have lot of new ideas... but they are Lawful Good by core. Well, this seems one of those many cases where the alignment comes in the way of a good story but somehow I find it more ideal if Dispatchers would be non-evil and Watchers would be LG with one-step-rule. However according to those articles both branches are Lawful Good with one-step-rule.
Also which is bit problematic is the The Precept of Property: A Knight owns nothing; he merely holds items in trust to fulfill the purpose he serves for the Order. A Knight must be generous and never seek the accumulation of wealth for its own sake.
I find it extremely hard to imagine any thief-type of character joining an organization with such a harsh rule. I find it even harder to find any PC roque that would be happy to here about this.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm NOT bitching, I'm simply confused about the flavor and I find it hard to represent the organization to my players in any intelligent way. Lawful Good half-elf master-thieves renouncing worldly property and following knightly rules of battle. Yeah, it's a bit hard to swallow :(
Few questions:
1. Do Dispatchers follow all the Precepts or just some, or are they less fanatical about it? Because according to Sword & Fist they seem less loyal to the Precepts than Watchers. So are Dispatchers the pragmatic branch and Watchers are the real believers?
2. What kind of characters are welcomed by Dispatchers? Is it possible for a typical CG ranger with Giants as favored enemy to join?
3. What kind of advice do you have about handling PC Dispatchers?
4. How well the Dispatchers are represented in Sterich?
5. Would it be possible for PC’s to merely ally with Dispatchers and not join them? It seems that during Fast of the Murder of Bethané Dispatchers are extremely vulnerable and would welcome friendly allies that can protect them during this day. Especially since many Dispatchers live in the wild and a week without armor can potentially be deadly for a ranger. Maybe honorary membership (ranks included) would be an option?
6. I don’t understand how Dispatchers view wizards and sorcerers. Any ideas about this?
I know that there are no simple answers to my questions, but generally I’m just bouncing of ideas and trying to improve game. Thanks in advance!
I think the issue is that chaotics don't play well with others, while both the Watchers and Dispatchers are highly regimented organizations. Perhaps your PCs could be freelancers or "rogue" operatives whom the Dispatchers call upon as a last resort (like the protagonists of many classic American action movies of the 1980s & 1990s).
Generally I find it a bit confusing how an organization will first "rebel" against knightly values, then start an unconventional war and they have lot of new ideas... but they are Lawful Good by core. Well, this seems one of those many cases where the alignment comes in the way of a good story but somehow I find it more ideal if Dispatchers would be non-evil and Watchers would be LG with one-step-rule. However according to those articles both branches are Lawful Good with one-step-rule.
Alignment doesn't come into conflict though. If is very possible to have disagreements between lawful good characters/organizations without one of them suddenly changing alignment. One must look at the reason for the split in the Order. The purpose of the Knights of the Watch is to protect the Sheldomar; particularly against the Westerlings. However, that doesn't mean that they should ignore any threats other than Westerlings.
Commandant: "We've got to keep those Kettites from running amok in Bissel!"
Knight: "Excuse me, sir. Geoff and Sterich have fallen, and Yeomanry is under attack!"
Commandant: "We've got to keep Bissel free, son!"
Knight: "Aren't we sworn to protect the land from other attackers too, sir?"
Commandant: "But it's Westerlings, son! WESTERLINGS!"
Knight: "Time to form a splinter group methinks."
Commandant: "What was that?!"
Knight: "Nothing sir."
What were to become the Dispatchers didn't rebel against knightly values, but against the lack of attention being paid to the horde of monsters that were pouring out of the mountains and ravaging the lands that they were sworn to protect. In the Dispatchers view, the Order was neglecting its duty to protect the people of Geoff, Sterich, and the Yeomanry.
Sutemi wrote:
Also which is bit problematic is the The Precept of Property: A Knight owns nothing; he merely holds items in trust to fulfill the purpose he serves for the Order. A Knight must be generous and never seek the accumulation of wealth for its own sake.
This is not a problem at all. The Knights Templar were the Poor Knights of Christ. Due to their vow of poverty, Templars didn't own anything- the *Order* owned it. Same with the Watchers/Dispatchers.
Sutemi wrote:
I find it extremely hard to imagine any thief-type of character joining an organization with such a harsh rule. I find it even harder to find any PC roque that would be happy to here about this.
Sneaky, back-stabbing, throat slitting operative does not equal thief. Last time I checked, the Special Forces of various countries are not all about lootin' cash, but rather are members of military organizations. The thief/rogue class is merely a platform for a particular skill set. What a character does with that skill set defines what the character is. If you are a black-ops style character, you are an operative. If you pick pockets, break into places, and steal stuff, you are a thief. Don't be so attached to the class name. A fighter can be an honorable warrior or a murderous psycho. A wizard can be a servant of the light or a necromancer/summoner of demons. Get the idea? The class name tells us nothing about what the character is really all about.
Sutemi wrote:
Few questions:
1. Do Dispatchers follow all the Precepts or just some, or are they less fanatical about it? Because according to Sword & Fist they seem less loyal to the Precepts than Watchers. So are Dispatchers the pragmatic branch and Watchers are the real believers?
They follow the precepts, but probably allow for a few more gray areas than the Watchers do in regard to the ends justifying the means.
Sutemi wrote:
2. What kind of characters are welcomed by Dispatchers? Is it possible for a typical CG ranger with Giants as favored enemy to join?
Yes. Such a character would be rather useful.
Sutemi wrote:
3. What kind of advice do you have about handling PC Dispatchers?
Be sure they stick to the Precepts as much as possible. Also, they should be somewhat secretive about who and what they are, as the reputation of the Order is not what it once was. They should mostly be helping to protect those in the Sheldomar who are outside of the Bissel conflict, or that are being threatened by something other than Westerlings. Sure, Dispatchers are not keen on Westerlings either, but the Watchers focus almost solely upon them, so the Dispatchers tend to focus more on other enemies(especially the humanoids and giants of the western mountains.
Sutemi wrote:
4. How well the Dispatchers are represented in Sterich?
They probably have a chapter house in Istivin, and a few way stations throughout the land where knights can get supplies, rest, share intelligence, etc..
Sutemi wrote:
5. Would it be possible for PC’s to merely ally with Dispatchers and not join them? It seems that during Fast of the Murder of Bethané Dispatchers are extremely vulnerable and would welcome friendly allies that can protect them during this day. Especially since many Dispatchers live in the wild and a week without armor can potentially be deadly for a ranger. Maybe honorary membership (ranks included) would be an option?
No honorary memberships. This is a full-on knightly order, not an organization that hands out merit badges. You are either or knight, or you are not. You either make the commitment, or you don't. Allies would surely be useful to the order, so that is a good option. An ally might be heralded as a "Friend of the Order", but will not be made a knight without having to actually join the order, take vows, etc., "just because".
Sutemi wrote:
6. I don’t understand how Dispatchers view wizards and sorcerers. Any ideas about this?
They have nothing against them, though they might be a bit guarded and not want to talk to such individuals(nor anyone outside of the Order) about the supposed mystical aspects of the Order. I don't think any Watcher/Dispatcher would turn away a good battle wizard though.
Just my opinions on things. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Last edited by Cebrion on Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Thank you so much for your insight Cebrion. That was excellent, really! I think I'll offer the players either membership or official Friend of the Order-title, which would make them as separate unit not officially belonging to the commond structure of the order but with certain limited duties and rights. I think it wouldn't be too much to rank allies, such as "Junior Friend of the Order" and "Magnificent Friend of the Order" but still keep these as completely separate from the Knightly ranks. I was thinking something like Roman Auxilia-units, which didn't have any official place in Roman army but still were able to hold ranks by Roman standards and these ranks only affected the Auxilias themselves (mercenary leaders only lead mercenaries etc).
I really think that PC's will make a really sad face when they discover how regimented the order is, so I think building some viable but cannonish option for some kind of alliance is a good idea.
I think it wouldn't be too much to rank allies, such as "Junior Friend of the Order" and "Magnificent Friend of the Order" but still keep these as completely separate from the Knightly ranks.
Sounds good, Sutemi.
I think that would be in order and perfectly acceptable. It would serve to determine "rank" among various "allies," and could be used to explain the varying degrees of "privilege" enjoyed by different groups of allies.
I would base it upon things like how much service has been rendered to the Order, or to signify the significance of a particular service rendered to the Order.
I'm going to represent this option to my players:
If a prospective candidate who has proven his skills is willing to help the order but unable to fully commit to the duties of squiring, officer of the Order has an option to herald him/her as a Friend of The Order.
Such characters are adviced to give an oath to the order, promising to help and assist the order without hesitation when requested. In return representive of the order gives a generalized promise of "friendship to all those help the order".
Friends of the Order are called in when Knights are in dire need and the resources and manpower are not sufficient to handle the situation (such as remote areas of Sheldomar Valley).
If a Friend of the Order proves his/her loyalty and skill, it's possible to be invited to protect the Sheldomar Valley while Knights observe the Fast of the Murder of Bethané. This is important time for the order and any sworn allies that fail to substitute them during this time will no longer be recognized as the Friends of the Order unless they have a good excuse.
Duties and rights of a Friend:
- Provide service during the Fast of the Murder of Bethané
- Assisting in missions when available
- Mutual sharing of information. However, most important secrets are withheld from allies
- Mutual promise of goodwill
- Allies are usually expected to give donations to Knighthood. This is why several Friends of the Order are actually rich noblemen or merchants with no cabability to defend Sheldomar Valley
Friends of the Order that have highly proven themselves but are still unable to squire are heralded as Honored Friends of the Order. Such title brings them great respect across Sheldomar Valley. Also, if a Knight or Squire is unavailable during a mission, Honored Friends are considered as temporary teamleaders until a member of the order resumes the command. Honored Friends are usually given an owl feather for their outstanding services.
This is kind of getting me fired up to finish my KotW/KoD article- it is the only one I haven't submitted yet. I haven't looked at it in while, but there are only three sections that need finalizing. Two of those sections are rather...involved...though, and will require a good amount of research(dammit!). _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Such characters are adviced to give an oath to the order, promising to help and assist the order without hesitation when requested. In return representive of the order gives a generalized promise of "friendship to all those help the order".
Only natural. They should be expecting that, if not, they're "young" players indeed.
Sutemi wrote:
Friends of the Order are called in when Knights are in dire need and the resources and manpower are not sufficient to handle the situation (such as remote areas of Sheldomar Valley).
More: The Order's resources should be considered to be limited; i.e. they can't be every where at once. The Order's (PC) "adventurer" allies should be used to investigate rumors of "monster" infestation and the like, thus freeing up the Order's Knights for more serious concerns. The Knights would act only if the "rumor" proved to be true. And the allies could also assist the Knights in the actual assault on the "monster's" lair.
Sutemi wrote:
Knights observe the Fast of the Murder of Bethané. This is important time for the order and any sworn allies that fail to substitute them during this time will no longer be recognized as the Friends of the Order unless they have a good excuse.
A fitting punishment. Allies should never fail in upholding their "portion" of the alliance.
Sutemi wrote:
Mutual sharing of information. However, most important secrets are withheld from allies.
The amount of information shared with an individual allied group should be based upon the allied group's "ranking" as Allies of the Order. And groups of allies who are privileged to "know more" than other groups should likewise keep the Order's rule of secrecy. Or suffer the above mentioned punishment for betraying the Order's secrets without autorization.
And the monetary donations you mention should be the standard 10% of any treasure found while carrying out the Order's missions. But that's just me, a figure with which I'm satisfied.
Yesterday NPC-commander of the Knights of Dispatch did offer the players a chance to join the organization and I did highlight the Twelve Precepts. I made sure that the players understood that everything the Order does is based on these teachings.
Players seemed quite abhorred by all this but one of the players seemed ok with it. Commander sold him the Story of Simple Knight (by Azmarender) for one gold piece and asked him to study it.
However, the option of alliance seemed just great for the rest of the group and they are more than willing to go along that path. So I recommend this DM's because it brings kind of convenient grey area for players and they like that. And it doesn't ruin too much canon either. "Here is the adventurer group X, official friends of the Order" = I can live with that.
Be careful with that gray area though. If the adventurers are strongly linked to the Order then what they do reflects upon the Order. If the adventurers screw up, or go a bit too far into the gray area, there could(and should) be repercussions. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
I agree with Cebrion here. Be careful with "Neutral" tendencies and most especially any "Evil" inclinations of your players. By associating themselves with the Order, they lose a little bit of that "free spirit" aspect of an adventuring group. _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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