I am hoping to find a little info for an up and coming adventure. I am currently writing an adventure that involves the ancient city of Fleeth. The back-story of Fleeth intrigued me but I have been unable to find much info on it. What I do know it was the site of one of Vecna’s most heinous acts. When Vecna was still just a litch he laid siege to a city called Fleeth in the Sheldamore Valley. The city was a prosperous city that dared to resist Vecna’s growing empire. As the battle raged, it became apparent the city could not stand. Its leaders sued for peace offering all the wealth of the city and their own lives if Vecna would spare the lives of the common city dwellers. Not only did Vecna not accept, he killed very living thing in Fleeth and piled the heads of the slain in a great wall, then forced the city leaders to walk down this wall seeing the heads of their family. Vecna then ordered that the city leaders who had offered themselves as sacrifice not to be harmed and forced them to lives the rest of their lives without their friends or family knowing their actions were the cause of all the destruction.
Fleeth was supposed to be at edge of what is now the Rushmores. I was wondering if there were any adventures that dealt with the ruins of Fleeth. In my adventure I do not want to contradict anything that has been canonized. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
There were no adventures dealing with Fleeth, aside from a paragraph of legend in Vecna Lives!
However, the comic book Vecna: Hand of the Revenant took place mainly in Fleeth, the city where Vecna spent his childhood (in that book, anyway).
The artist gave the architecture kind of an ancient Mesopotamian feel, the inhabitants dark-skinned enough to be distinctively Flan. The creators of the comic represented the city as a place where a group of intolerant Pholtus-worshiping settlers wiped out most of the indigenous Ur-Flan, condemning them as witches. Vecna's mother and Vecna himself were the last of the royal Ur-Flan line, but part of the lowest caste of Fleeth's society. When Vecna grew up and and returned as a lich, he sought vengeance against the people of Fleeth for killing his mother and making his childhood miserable.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to put Pholtus-worshipers in the Sheldomar Valley probably thousands of years before the Great Migrations. A recent 4e treatment made the god Pelor instead, although Rao would make the most sense, in my opinion, given the location and Rao's status as a Flan god of the sun and moons.
Fleeth was supposed to be at edge of what is now the Rushmores. I was wondering if there were any adventures that dealt with the ruins of Fleeth. In my adventure I do not want to contradict anything that has been canonized. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Adam
To my knowledge, an exact location for Fleeth was never stated, though most assume it to have been in the Sheldomar Valley.
Erik Mona's essay, "Vecna's Realm" interpreted Fleeth as a Keoish frontier town, and interpreted the word “burgher” as an administrative title akin to “governor." However, as the LGG states that Vecna's empire fell before the foundation of Keoland, this cannot be the case ("Vecna's Realm" was written prior to the LGG section on Keoland, IIRC).
Though the exact location of Fleeth is not stated in Vecna: Hand of the Revenant, it does provide us with some clues:
1) VHotR, narrated in-character by Uhas of Neheli, states that Fleeth’s “White walls stood proudly upon the eastern plains as a stronghold of order in the wild lands.” While there are a number of “eastern plains” in the Flanaess, one must assume that Uhas was either writing from his own perspective at Santhmor in Niole Dra, or from the perspective of the seat of Vecna’s empire at the time, in the Rushmoors. Furthermore, one should also assume that such plains are not too distant from the Sheldomar Valley, ruling out the lands east of the Nyr Dyv. In addition, the VHotR depicts mountains (or perhaps hills) some distance to the north, south, and west of Fleeth, as well as a nearby river.
2) The people of Fleeth worship the moon god Pholtus. As Rip said, this is a hard sell, as a thriving metropolis of Oeridian Pholtines is unlikely during Vecna's childhood, depicted in VHotR as taking place 900 years before the Siege of Fleeth (my best guess for Fleeth's siege, based on the age of Vecna's artifacts & other factors, would be circa -1420 CY). It could be that Uhas of Neheli's source material only identified the deity of Fleeth as a moon god, & since Uhas was not familiar with Rao's role as a god of Moons, he may have assumed this to be a Flan version of Pholtus. While 4E insists that it was Pelor instead of Rao, I like to think that Rao may have originated as an aspect of Pelor, much as Berei is an aspect of Beory.
3) A third clue to the location of Fleeth involves the plant life referred to in the VHotR. Fleeth is depicted as a city rich with palm trees, which would indicate a “southern tropical” location, according to the 1983 WoG box. Additionally, we learn that kara fruits, which are grown only in the “southern” temperate regions of the Flanaess, are not found in Fleeth, further supporting a tropical location.
By these parameters, Fleeth was most likely located in a tropical region, near a river, and situated upon a plain bordered by mountains or hills to the north, south, and west. Fleeth was east of (and a reasonable distance from) either Niole Dra or the Rushmoors, and was firmly in the grip of the cult of Rao/Pelor.
Looking at a map of the Flanaess, no tropical regions appear to fit the parameters given. Only the Hold of the Sea Princes comes close, and those lands lie to the south and southwest of the Rushmoors and Niole Dra, respectively. Seeing that the presence of palm trees are the only reason to assume Fleeth was located in a tropical region, one must therefore determine whether it is possible for palms to survive in temperate regions (we need not worry with the subtropics, given the fact that kara trees are not found in Fleeth). We see that this is indeed possible, given the presence of palm trees on Oakenisle (Ivid, 91), roughly 33 degrees north of Oerth’s equator. Even if the palms in Fleeth were not native to the region, it is very likely that they may have been cultivated there, given the winter-hardiness of some palm species (Some palm species are able to survive at latitudes as high as 50 degrees beyond Earth’s equator. The palms pictured in VHotR appear to have pinnate leaves similar to date palms, which can themselves survive temperatures up to 14 degrees Fahrenheit). It is also possible the climate of the Flanaess was warmer in those days.
After much research and contemplation, I have therefore determined that Fleeth was most likely located in western Veluna, possibly just east of the Lorridges. This would provide a fairly defensible location for the “Shining Fortress” to guard the “eastern plans” against incursions from the west. Furthermore, a Velunese placement for Fleeth dovetails nicely with legends indicating that the cult of Rao may have its origins in the Vale of Luna. Fleeth’s destruction circa -1420 CY may also explain the primitive state of the Flan of the area when encountered centuries later by the Oeridians, as well as the portrayal of "Rao" over the centuries into a “kinder, gentler” deity than depicted in VHotR.
Well done, Rob! So would you say that Fleeth was probably located near the Fals River, possibly near or on the site of modern Mitrik?
Hm. Looking through the book, I'd say it was probably the Fals if it's in western Veluna, but it couldn't be Mitrik. The river seems to be coming from the hills, so it must be either near the Fals Keep is on this map or further north, near the tributary that meets the Fals River near Swan Hill. I don't think that particular tributary has a name.
The comic is actually illustrated as if it took place in ancient Palestine or Egypt or thereabouts, but I guess we can chalk that up to artistic license.
How did you derive the date -1420 CY? If Kas was involved in the siege of Fleeth, as he was in the comic, he must have been around 1000 years old when he finally betrayed his master. That doesn't fit with the idea in Vecna Lives! that he only became a vampire after his imprisonment in Citadel Cavitius, though 3rd edition sources do imply he became a vampire earlier.
On further thought, you're probably basing the -1420 date on the idea that Vecna was probably around 2000 years old when Kas betrayed him, and then counting back from him being 900 at Fleeth. Well, could be.
The comic mentions Mara as the home of another Pholtine monastery in which the princess of Fleeth could give birth in secret. TwiceBorn placed the Mara kingdom of Burgred between the Gran March and Bissel, which seems far enough away from Fleeth to keep its population in ignorance of births there while being close enough that the journey would be reasonable.
Fleeth was supposed to be at edge of what is now the Rushmores. I was wondering if there were any adventures that dealt with the ruins of Fleeth. In my adventure I do not want to contradict anything that has been canonized. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Adam
To my knowledge, an exact location for Fleeth was never stated, though most assume it to have been in the Sheldomar Valley.
Erik Mona's essay, "Vecna's Realm" interpreted Fleeth as a Keoish frontier town, and interpreted the word “burgher” as an administrative title akin to “governor." However, as the LGG states that Vecna's empire fell before the foundation of Keoland, this cannot be the case ("Vecna's Realm" was written prior to the LGG section on Keoland, IIRC).
Though the exact location of Fleeth is not stated in Vecna: Hand of the Revenant, it does provide us with some clues:
1) VHotR, narrated in-character by Uhas of Neheli, states that Fleeth’s “White walls stood proudly upon the eastern plains as a stronghold of order in the wild lands.” While there are a number of “eastern plains” in the Flanaess, one must assume that Uhas was either writing from his own perspective at Santhmor in Niole Dra, or from the perspective of the seat of Vecna’s empire at the time, in the Rushmoors. Furthermore, one should also assume that such plains are not too distant from the Sheldomar Valley, ruling out the lands east of the Nyr Dyv. In addition, the VHotR depicts mountains (or perhaps hills) some distance to the north, south, and west of Fleeth, as well as a nearby river.
2) The people of Fleeth worship the moon god Pholtus. As Rip said, this is a hard sell, as a thriving metropolis of Oeridian Pholtines is unlikely during Vecna's childhood, depicted in VHotR as taking place 900 years before the Siege of Fleeth (my best guess for Fleeth's siege, based on the age of Vecna's artifacts & other factors, would be circa -1420 CY). It could be that Uhas of Neheli's source material only identified the deity of Fleeth as a moon god, & since Uhas was not familiar with Rao's role as a god of Moons, he may have assumed this to be a Flan version of Pholtus. While 4E insists that it was Pelor instead of Rao, I like to think that Rao may have originated as an aspect of Pelor, much as Berei is an aspect of Beory.
3) A third clue to the location of Fleeth involves the plant life referred to in the VHotR. Fleeth is depicted as a city rich with palm trees, which would indicate a “southern tropical” location, according to the 1983 WoG box. Additionally, we learn that kara fruits, which are grown only in the “southern” temperate regions of the Flanaess, are not found in Fleeth, further supporting a tropical location.
By these parameters, Fleeth was most likely located in a tropical region, near a river, and situated upon a plain bordered by mountains or hills to the north, south, and west. Fleeth was east of (and a reasonable distance from) either Niole Dra or the Rushmoors, and was firmly in the grip of the cult of Rao/Pelor.
Looking at a map of the Flanaess, no tropical regions appear to fit the parameters given. Only the Hold of the Sea Princes comes close, and those lands lie to the south and southwest of the Rushmoors and Niole Dra, respectively. Seeing that the presence of palm trees are the only reason to assume Fleeth was located in a tropical region, one must therefore determine whether it is possible for palms to survive in temperate regions (we need not worry with the subtropics, given the fact that kara trees are not found in Fleeth). We see that this is indeed possible, given the presence of palm trees on Oakenisle (Ivid, 91), roughly 33 degrees north of Oerth’s equator. Even if the palms in Fleeth were not native to the region, it is very likely that they may have been cultivated there, given the winter-hardiness of some palm species (Some palm species are able to survive at latitudes as high as 50 degrees beyond Earth’s equator. The palms pictured in VHotR appear to have pinnate leaves similar to date palms, which can themselves survive temperatures up to 14 degrees Fahrenheit). It is also possible the climate of the Flanaess was warmer in those days.
After much research and contemplation, I have therefore determined that Fleeth was most likely located in western Veluna, possibly just east of the Lorridges. This would provide a fairly defensible location for the “Shining Fortress” to guard the “eastern plans” against incursions from the west. Furthermore, a Velunese placement for Fleeth dovetails nicely with legends indicating that the cult of Rao may have its origins in the Vale of Luna. Fleeth’s destruction circa -1420 CY may also explain the primitive state of the Flan of the area when encountered centuries later by the Oeridians, as well as the portrayal of "Rao" over the centuries into a “kinder, gentler” deity than depicted in VHotR.
Having only very limited info to go on. I placed the ruins of Fleeth at the edge of the eastern Rushmores near the river. I assumed the eastern plains in the Sheldomar, was that open area that flows from the Oytwood and Dim forests down through Keoland. I knew that Vecan’s seat of power was the Rotted Tower in the Rushmores. Having a deep hatred of the city of Fleeth, I assumed it would be one of his first targets. That meant the city had to be in his initial conquering zone. I can see Vecna marching his newly formed army of undead strait to fleeth strait after becoming a litch.
Your information is much more detailed than anything I could find in LG material (which is all I had to go on).
The basic premise of the adventure is that the party must travel to the ruins of the city to gain information from the ghosts of the city’s survivors that were unable to move on after witnessing Vecna’s brutality. I added to the legend saying that each of the spared city leaders was presented not only with the wall of heads, but at the end a gold box containing the shattered remains of their nearest family members (wife, kids, parents etc). One ghost in particular, the king of fleeth, has the information the party needs. After defeating the evil creatures that have taken up residence in the ruins, the party must find the ghost of the king in what remains of the temple of Pholtus. They must play off his hatred of Vecna to overcome his hatred of the living. The ruins are barely recognizable as such, just some stones now half sunk in the mud (except the ruins of the temple and archway) which explains why no adventurers have visited the city in recent memory. Also if Vecna took enough time to kill every living thing in the city, he most likely also took the time to completely destroy all the walls and building (except the temple which he desecrated very thoroughly and left as an insult to Pholtus). With no one left to take care of the city or keep the fields intact around it, the Rushmores expanded and slowly took over the ruins.
When I finish this adventure I had planned to post it and a few others online, in case anyone else would like to play them. I wanted to make sure I did not contradict any canonized info. I do not have access to Greyhawk mods, sets, or comics, novels, or whatnot, so I am limited to only the LG stuff.
Question. Should I move the city? Is its placement at the edge of the Rushmores near the eastern branch of the Lort River appropriate? If I had only my players to think about I would not go into so much detail but since I hope others will play it, I want to make sure I am doing everything right.
There were no adventures dealing with Fleeth, aside from a paragraph of legend in Vecna Lives!
However, the comic book Vecna: Hand of the Revenant took place mainly in Fleeth, the city where Vecna spent his childhood (in that book, anyway).
The artist gave the architecture kind of an ancient Mesopotamian feel, the inhabitants dark-skinned enough to be distinctively Flan. The creators of the comic represented the city as a place where a group of intolerant Pholtus-worshiping settlers wiped out most of the indigenous Ur-Flan, condemning them as witches. Vecna's mother and Vecna himself were the last of the royal Ur-Flan line, but part of the lowest caste of Fleeth's society. When Vecna grew up and and returned as a lich, he sought vengeance against the people of Fleeth for killing his mother and making his childhood miserable.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to put Pholtus-worshipers in the Sheldomar Valley probably thousands of years before the Great Migrations. A recent 4e treatment made the god Pelor instead, although Rao would make the most sense, in my opinion, given the location and Rao's status as a Flan god of the sun and moons.
I also thought that Pholtus being in the Sheldomar valley at that time would be somewhat strange. I tried to give Fleeth a kind of civilization among savages feel. I gave the city a kind of Greek feel with large stone structures, and their warriors in bronze armor with large shields and spears. Think Greek hoplite. From the Fleeth’s people perspective they were a shinning city surrounded by savage tribes of Ur-flan.
I did not want to argue the Pholtus aspect so I tried to make Pholtus seem un-evolved, more like a cult to the Sun itself. In the remains of the temple is Pholtus’ holy symbol but it is not the one described in Complete Divine. It is just a simple sun with no moon. The ghost of the king uses Pholtus and “Sol” interchangeably. I wanted to give the impression that the religion was at its very early stages when the city was destroyed. One idea I had was the hint that this memory of Pholtus/sol/the sun, influenced the evolution of the current religion of Palor.
Well done, Rob! So would you say that Fleeth was probably located near the Fals River, possibly near or on the site of modern Mitrik?
Hm. Looking through the book, I'd say it was probably the Fals if it's in western Veluna, but it couldn't be Mitrik. The river seems to be coming from the hills, so it must be either near the Fals Keep is on this map or further north, near the tributary that meets the Fals River near Swan Hill. I don't think that particular tributary has a name.
Yeah, I actually did all this research some time ago, & think I consulted that map & also determined Mitrik wouldn't work, but Fals Keep probably would.
Quote:
How did you derive the date -1420 CY? If Kas was involved in the siege of Fleeth, as he was in the comic, he must have been around 1000 years old when he finally betrayed his master. That doesn't fit with the idea in Vecna Lives! that he only became a vampire after his imprisonment in Citadel Cavitius, though 3rd edition sources do imply he became a vampire earlier.
On further thought, you're probably basing the -1420 date on the idea that Vecna was probably around 2000 years old when Kas betrayed him, and then counting back from him being 900 at Fleeth. Well, could be.
I don't have my notes handy at the moment, but I derived the date from a line inVecna Lives! which states that the Hand & Eye are "thousands" of years old. Now, since Kas betrayed Vecna some time around -358 CY (IIRC), that doesn't quite work. HOWEVER, the 1E DMG & Eldritch Wizardry both state that the Hand & Eye were imbued with power by Vecna himself, so we can assume the two were artifacts long before Kas's betrayal. Since VHotR shows Vecna losing his left hand & eye at Fleeth, I assumed that this provided the catalyst for him to imbue the objects with power.
Not wanting to go back too far, I assumed 2000 years was enough, so I subtracted 2000 from 581 (the date of VL), and accounting for the lack of a CY 0, ended up w/ c. -1420 CY for the date of the Siege of Fleeth.
The comic mentions Mara as the home of another Pholtine monastery in which the princess of Fleeth could give birth in secret. TwiceBorn placed the Mara kingdom of Burgred between the Gran March and Bissel, which seems far enough away from Fleeth to keep its population in ignorance of births there while being close enough that the journey would be reasonable.
Yeah, this is one of the fan-created pieces I've used in my Vecnan history to fill some of the gaps in canon.
Also if Vecna took enough time to kill every living thing in the city, he most likely also took the time to completely destroy all the walls and building (except the temple which he desecrated very thoroughly and left as an insult to Pholtus). With no one left to take care of the city or keep the fields intact around it, the Rushmores expanded and slowly took over the ruins.
Having read the LG module, I like the idea of the Rushmoors coming to being because Vecna sabotaged the ceremony to renew the land.
Quote:
Question. Should I move the city? Is its placement at the edge of the Rushmores near the eastern branch of the Lort River appropriate? If I had only my players to think about I would not go into so much detail but since I hope others will play it, I want to make sure I am doing everything right.
Adam
Those are decisions only you can make. If changing everything to make it fit with canon, apocrypha, etc., changes the nature of the story too much, then stick with your original thought. Ifnot, change it--but only if you want to. Unless you're a hired gun on someone else's IP, write to please yourself, not others.
I think one way I can explain this is that the Flanaess used to be a slightly different place before Vecna betrayed the cycle of life. Since the Rotted Tower is at the direct center of the Rushmores, I assumed that Vecna had something to do with the swamps. How does it sound to have the rushmores a very small swamp that greatly expanded because of Vecna’s evil? Also before Father Acorn was betrayed the Sheldamor was a much warmer place. That would explain the palm trees in Fleeth. It would also show that even after 950+ years after Vecna’s empire fell, the land is still healing. After all, how long did the land have to wait to be renewed after Vecna’s betrayal? Vecna would have surely made it difficult if not impossible for the druids to find a new golden acorn and perform the ritual.
The river is not named and I do not know if the western branch of the Lort river (the part that runs from the Rushmores to Shiboleth then combines with the Lort River) has a name. Fleeth as a sizeable city dedicated to the God of Light, that was strong enough to almost killed Vecna during the siege, may been powerful enough to oppose Vecna in his early days as a ruler Litch. This would explain its proximity to the Rotted Tower and Vecna’s behavior when the city finally fell. Not only had the people killed his mother and labeled him an outcast as a child, but also proved to be a thorn in his side for many years.
I want to take the time to get his as right as possible. Could become cannon after all… I can always hope.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
