OK, everyone. I asked openly (regardless of editions) about ideas for 'called shots,' and you all stepped up and gave me some good input; I give honorable mention to you, Icarus.
At any rate, I have been going back and forth on various ideas and mechanics for Parrying. In 2e, they use one of two different methods, and each one has its advantages and disadvantages, of course.
1) Automatic success at parry, no roll needed, to drop your AC by 1/2 your level (add 1 more for warriors). Ex: 6th lvl thief parries, lowers AC by 3 pts, but a 6th lvl fighter drops it 4 pts
2) Roll your enemy's THACO and, if successful, you automatically negate your enemy's attack (they don't even get a roll!); not sure why it's against the THACO personally (you're not trying to penetrate their defenses after all)...
I am opening the thread to ALL ideas, ALL editions. Icarus, you are definitely in the "hot seat" for this one...
I would use one of two rules. The first a parry can be used in place of an attack roll. When an attacker rolls a successful attack roll, the defender must roll an opposed attack roll and meet or exceed the attackers attack roll including bonuses to hit or fail at the parrying attempt.
Example: Torg the barbarian swings his axe at Galen the paladin. Galen choose to parry Torg's attack. Torg's player rolls a 14 and has a +3 to attack total = 17. Galen rolls a 15 and has a +2 to attack rolls total =17. Galen successfully parries the attack of Torg.
The second version, a defender declares he is parrying an attack and adds his attack bonus to his AC. The attacker rolls his attack normally.
Example: Galen the paladin declares he will parry the next attack he faces. Galen normal armor class is AC 5 +2 for base attack bonus (note strentgh bonus does not apply but dexterity bonus does) galen has no dex bonus so his effective AC is 3 versus the next attack roll. Torg the barbarian has a Thaco of 17 so he needs a modified attack roll of 14 or better to overcome Galen's parry. Torg rolls and 11 and his +3 to hit = 14. Galen failed to parry the attack and if Galen is attacked again in this round his AC is once again 5 for the remaining attacks he faces that round.
I hope this helps. Though I'm a fan of the opposed roll. Because it feels like both the attacker and the defender are involved in the process.
I like Argon's second option. It's similar to 4e's total defense, where you basically sacrifice your standard action (which is pretty much any attack you're going to make) to obtain a +2 bonus to your defenses. I think Argon's use of attack bonus instead of a static bonus fits very well with AD&D mechanics. It's pretty simple, but effective.
The 2nd option is indeed MUCH simpler, but I agree with Argon that I prefer some type of contested roll. But I think it should be THACO based. I am still pondering 'what' that looks like in terms of mechanics...it must include the base THACO of each character (as well as modifiers, too), not just the overall roll itself. This would take into account the 'skill' or 'prowess' factor as well rather than just the die roll itself.
I always liked the parrying ability introduced in 1st ed. Unearthed Arcana with the Cavalier character class. It allowed a Cavalier or Paladin to simply dedicate as many attacks per round as they chose to parrying instead of attacking. All 'To Hit' bonuses normally enjoyed by the PC against that particular opponent would instead be applied as a penalty to that opponent's 'To Hit' roll (it would work just as well to apply them as a benefit to the PC's AC).
I like it for its realism. All the skill a PC has in striking an opponent, is now directed into parrying that opponent's weapon. Perhaps you could require some sort of feat (3.5e) or equivalent ability in 1st/2nde to allow a PC to have such parrying skill.
It allowed a Cavalier or Paladin to simply dedicate as many attacks per round as they chose to parrying instead of attacking.
So, "he" just keeps parrying his opponent's blows until one of his fellow adventurers "sneaks up" and kills his opponent for him?
That's certainly possible.
However, there are more considerations. First, if the PC finds him or herself being overwhelmed by a much more powerful Bad Guy, the PC can simply dedicate all their attacks to parrying in the hopes of staying alive long enough for their companions to get free to assist them. Second, in such a case, the Bad Guy probably has more 'To Hit' bonuses than the PC, so the PC is just cancelling out many (most?) of the Bad Guy's bonuses. The Bad Guy can still hit the PC, it just won't be as easy or frequent. Third, since the PC may choose how many attacks to devote to defensive parrying, a PC with multiple attacks per round may still choose to make some.
I used this system very frequently with Sir Xaris, my Paladin PC. When the party engaged the BBEG and his lieutenants in the finale, once Sir Xaris could confront the BBEG directly, he would offer him/her/it the chance to surrender or be destroyed (assuming it was a species that was not inherently evil ). When the BBEG refused the offer and attacked, Sir Xaris would parry as many attacks as he could (by the time he was 16th level he got four attacks per round - five with his Bastard Sword of Speed) while continue to offer the BBEG a chance to surrender. Sometimes, the BBEG would realize that he couldn't hit Sir Xaris without rolling a natural 20, so he would run away to try to engage other PCs and have his minions intercept Sir Xaris' pursuit. Sometimes, Sir Xaris would make an ocassional attack just to show the BBEG that Sir Xaris could destroy him any time he wanted.
Of course, Sir Xaris used this tactic against lesser minions frequently as well. It worked even better then as they usually didn't get as many attacks per round as Sir Xaris, allowing him to parry all their blows and still make an attack or two upon them each round.
If you think about it Thaco does come into effect. Though if you like you can adjust the attack roll by the difference in level and class of the characters. So fighter or fighter subclass vs. fighter or fighter subclass no class adjustment only level adjustment to roll including any bonuses they would normally receive.
Eample: Galen the paladin chooses to parry, Torg the barbarians attack. Galen is 3rd level and Torg is 2nd level. When Torg attacks he rolls a 14 and has a +3 to hit = 17. Galen rolls a 14 to parry +2 to hit = 16 +1 for level difference = 17. The parry succeeds.
In second edition Priest where 2nd in combat rating, Thieves or rogues where third in combat rating and wizards where forth.
I would give Clerics a -1 vs fighter or fighter subclasses, equal with clerics and rogues and a +1 vs wizards.
Rogues are identical to clerics in bonuses and penalties.
Wizard's suffer a -2 penalty vs fighters and fighter subclasses and a -1 to clerics and rogues. equal to wizards.
If you use psionics in 2nd edition they are in the same field as clerics and rogues.
Hhhhhmmmm... I can see a workable framework there.
Do you allow one parry roll for each attack the character is allowed? For example, a warrior with two attacks per round can elicit to parry only two attacks aimed against him/her? I assume that if more than two attacks are coming that fighter's way, then those will not be "parriable."
The other rule allowed the character to lower AC for all attacks aimed at him/her that round, I think.
Do you allow one parry roll for each attack the character is allowed? For example, a warrior with two attacks per round can elicit to parry only two attacks aimed against him/her? I assume that if more than two attacks are coming that fighter's way, then those will not be "parriable."
This is correct for the method I described from AD&D's Unearthed Arcana. Additional attacks beyond the 2nd simply strike at the PC's normal AC.
Quote:
The other rule allowed the character to lower AC for all attacks aimed at him/her that round, I think.
Option one above is meant to be attack or parry multiple attacks can be multiple parries. So if you get two attacks a round you can cover one attack one parry or parry two attacks.
The second option can be either rule. Either substitute one or more attacks to parry one or more attacks. However, full defense means giving up all attacks and gain the benefit to parry for one full round.
Hmm ... well, that's certainly strange. I thought for certain that I had put in my two cents on this one. Either I suffered from a bout of cerebral flatulence, or the internet-monster ate my post.
Generally, I think that the generic nature of the D&D/Pathfinder RPG combat system does an adequate job of simulating combat. It's intended to be abstract, and it succeeds in its design. Dexterity has always been incorporated into combat, and that represents the dodges and parrying that takes place throughout the combat.
That being said, there are times when it is in one's best interest to take extra care in a fight. In D&D 3rd Edition, and in Pathfinder RPG, ther is an option for Fighting Defensively, which improves one's AC (while still being allowed to attack). This, obviously, is when one is parrying even more than is typical. On top of that option, there is also Total Defense, which allows for an even bigger bonus to one's AC, but doesn't allow attacks. Furthermore, there's a feat (Combat Expertise) by which one can get the best possible bonus to AC.
I think that for the typical campaign, those three options are far more than enough.
There is, however, the corner cases of when one wants to have a type of campaign in which a bit more swashbuckling is the order of the day. So, for that type of thing, I generally turn to Dragon Magazine issue #301. Therein lies a 20-page article (written for the 3rd Ed. System) that has rules for parrying, new feats, and all kinds of things relating to the traditional buckling of swashes. For me, the ten feats that it presents more than cover the gamut of any variation that I am likely run into that a PC might want to be able to do with a parry maneuver.
So ... while the article and the ten feats are a bit too much to go into at length, I just thought I would offer up other options. If anyone is interested, I will go a little further into the mechanics. but, since today is the first day of the new semester, and I'm still trying to get that Master's in Illustration, it won't be immediate.
Thanks for replying. Good luck on that Master's (I thankfully finished mine about two years ago), and please do offer your expertise on parrying. I would like to know what your systems do for partial and total parry options (and even that 3rd option).
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