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    Canonfire :: View topic - Greyhawk and the Younger Generations
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    Greyhawk and the Younger Generations
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 10, 2003
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    From: Southern New Jersey

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    Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:18 pm  
    Greyhawk and the Younger Generations

    Hello all. I was wondering what your experience has been with the the younger generations and gaming in the Greyhawk campaign world. Though I have noticed some inquiries at my local FLGS and on the EN World web site forums, for the most part they seem to more focused on Forgotten Realms and now Eberron (as well as a number of other campaign worlds to a much lesser degree). Those interested seems to be due to a) Dungeon magazine and its Greyhawk installed adventures, plus the map of the Flanesses that came in four parts over four issues, and b) the sadly and utterly buggy PC game The Temple of Elemental Evil. I was really hoping that game would do for Greyhawk as Baldur's Gate did for the Forgottn Realms. Anyway...

    I started my kids in Greyhawk and they love it. What has been your experiences? Are the younger generations interested in this world? If so, why do yoou think it is so? What is the draw?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
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    Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:18 pm  
    [b]Whippersnappers![/b]

    I am an oldster and was until recently gaming with youngsters. They did not like the fact that they could not get the modules I was using (they did not know about svgames.com and later rpgnow.com) and read them ahead of time. Heh-heh. I decided to give them "3rd ed rules/1st ed feel". Got them up levels until they could tackle GDQ, which was fun. Their big complaint was such and such was done in FR and was boring because it was already done there. You know the routine. Menzobarranzen? Mad Bah. Would not be around if D3 hadn't come before it. They did not believe there were any 1st ed modules, that it was miniatures combat only. I did nothing to change that opinion. Laughing
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
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    From: Canada

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    Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:42 pm  

    I find this thread very interesting, because I'm a member of the "younger generation" that Argermax is asking about. I can say that I'm more in line with most of you old-timers than the new generation of D20 players when it comes to the numbers of magic items in the world, the numbers of high-level characters, and other such niceties. If I play 3E, I want to do it with a 1E mentality. ;)

    Seriously though, I really don't like the direction things have gone in the last few years. Too many feats, too many prestige classes, too easy to make magic items. I yearn for a simpler time, when 7th-level characters could slay frost giants in single combat, fireballs could be cast at 20 hit dice of damage, 16th-level fighters continued to wield the same non-magical longsword and suit of chain mail armor they had when they started, and not every dragon was a god-like titan of destruction.

    Still, times change. One good thing of the last few years has been the emphasis on storytelling and character development. This is something I'm really aiming for in my Greyhawk work-to turn Oerth into a living, breathing world, not just a backdrop to Friday-night fantasy gaming, but something that can stand on its own, with its own cultures, its own deep, rich histories and complex characters, and all that stuff.

    I want to make Greyhawk more than just a collection of notes in a high-school binder, more than just a collection of statistics and dice rolls, safely protected from industrialization and being mutilated by having it turned into our dull, drab real world, as Moorcock, Howard and Tolkien all tragically did to their own settings.
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2003
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    From: the Free City of Dyvers (Kansas City, MO)

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    Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:31 am  

    I have a couple of younger players on my Sunday game, where we're playing WoG. One of them is indifferent, and the other keeps going on and on about Eberron. There are a couple of neat features in Eberron, but having run WoG for the last 20 years, I have a lot of history and background to work with (my WoG campaigns are consecutive; each has built on the previous campaign). I'm not about to abandon it for a little flash and dazzle.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:20 pm  
    new greyhawk players

    My group has been playing in the WoG for nearly two years, and I (as the DM) love it. Lots of wonderful articles have come up here at canonfire, and over at Monte Cook's website, too. We're running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, with several side treks around the Flanaess in between. It's nice to have a setting where descriptive and thought-out background exists. Wonderful work here at Canonfire, and here's to hoping Erik Mona can keep a little bit of the setting alive at Wizards. I'd love to see them go through the Flanaess and put out books like they're printing for Forgotten Realms. A book on each major city or country would be great.

    -marilor, the seer.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:31 am  

    Even some veterans know little or nothing about GREYHAWK. One of my players has been gaming for 20 years and (until we started playing) he'd never gamed on Greyhawk.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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    Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:37 am  

    Two of my players are young (hell, I've been playing longer than they've been alive), and they absolutely LOVE Greyhawk. One has even started his own Greyhawk Campaign.

    Two other players are new to Greyhawk, though they're familiar with FR. They've told me they like playing in Greyhawk better than FR, though FR has more "history" (from the novels, I've gathered).

    I have yet to run into anyone in an active Eberron Campaign.

    Seems the younger generation actually likes Greyhawk a little bit. Cool
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:02 pm  
    The Three Settings...

    I cut my teeth on GH, and run a 3.5 GH campaign. I love the setting, and have a TON of plans for it. The best part of GH is the LACK OF MATERIAL. I can create what I want, and not have to re-write half a dozen books in the process. And my players will never know what I do.

    In my experience, the "current crop" of players only sees Living Greyhawk, not the real thing. They're usually in for a rude shock when they hit my campaign. But once they've played in it, the LG stuff seems awfully boring and dry... Hopefully, Eric Mona will keep the ball rolling over at Dungeon. (And I'll have enough time to write more nastiness.)

    I currently play in an FR campaign. While it's not what I would want to run, we've had fun (the PCs are 12th level). I know this is a GH-oriented forum, but I think there's more variance between DMs than there is between campaign settings. A good DM can make anything alive, or kill the best setting ever written.

    Regarding Eberron, I was at an Eberron seminar at GenCon Indy, and asked the following: "This is a request more than a question. Unlike a certain fantasy setting that will remain nameless, could you please leave a lot of elbow room for the DM? It really sucks when every NPC down to the 5th level sergeant-of-the-guard is detailed."

    The room broke into spontaneous applause. *boggle* I guess I rolled a natural 20 on my Craft (Question) check... *still boggled* I got an unqualified "yes, there will be plenty of unanswered questions and unresolved issues, and big expanses of blank area."

    That said, there is a lot of promise in Eberron. I play in an Eberron game, and the DM is kind of Lovecraftian, but it's been good so far.

    Telas, rambling far more than normal.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:59 pm  

    Hey, great answers all! Happy I actually am encouraged to hear there is newer blood in the Greyhawk mix and it sounds like we have some very dedicated and creative DM's here. If you ever get the chance, Telas, I would love to read about your 3.5 version. Sounds like fun!
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:35 pm  

    Actually, it's pretty simple. I've done what I could to retain the feel of AD&D, but use as many of the core mechanics of 3.5 as possible. Campaign-wise, the critical elements are slowing down the rate of level progression (a year of weekly games, and the oldest character is 6th level), and reducing the magical resources available to the party (nobody in the party has even half of their recommended "wealth by level").

    I have somewhat stuck with the LG storyline, but set the campaign in the Yeomanry in 586 CY. The party successfully defended their hometown against an assault by a rogue Drow house (and their hybrid Drow-Goblinoid troops), and are now working indirectly as a "rapid response team" for the Dustdiggers. Their employer is a mysterious patron of the Academy of Lore (Hmm... what Wee Jas worshipper would spend lots of money in pursuit of Suel artifacts?), and they're starting to run into Scarlet Brotherhood incursions from the Hold of the Sea Princes (the Bretheren also desire said artifacts). They've been in the hills and mountains, and are about to hit the Hool Marshes.

    I guess this should be in the 3.5 GH forum... apologies.

    A lot of my "changes" are superficial (Dwarven women are bearded; Halflings resemble Hobbits more than Gypsy Kender, although the mechanics of being a Halfling are unchanged, etc). There are some House Rules to reinforce the Greyhawkishness (Only Humans may be Monks; no non-PHB classes or Prestige Classes without game time and resources spent in pursuit, etc). And there are a few tweaks of my own (Sorcerers get 4 skill points per level, but no familiar; Turn Undead does Positive Energy damage to undead in a 30' radius).

    I've tried to retain "layers of plot" characteristic of Greyhawk modules, and have introduced the players to some old friends ("Rot Grub? What's that?"). I'm blessed with a total lack of rules lawyers, and my Chaotic Irish heritage trumps my Lawful German nature when it comes to bending the rules.

    Sorry for rambling and poor syntax...

    Telas
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:18 pm  
    Re: Greyhawk and the Younger Generations

    Argermax wrote:
    Hello all. I was wondering what your experience has been with the the younger generations and gaming in the Greyhawk campaign world. Though I have noticed some inquiries at my local FLGS and on the EN World web site forums, for the most part they seem to more focused on Forgotten Realms and now Eberron


    There are a number of GH fans over on ENWorld, though I would concur that the FR and Eb fans outnumber us.

    Quote:
    I started my kids in Greyhawk and they love it. What has been your experiences? Are the younger generations interested in this world? If so, why do yoou think it is so? What is the draw?


    As my son is only 18 months old, I'll probably wait another year or so before starting him out on D&D. I'll let you know the results afterward :D
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    Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:24 pm  

    gargoyle wrote:
    I have a couple of younger players on my Sunday game, where we're playing WoG. One of them is indifferent, and the other keeps going on and on about Eberron. There are a couple of neat features in Eberron, but having run WoG for the last 20 years, I have a lot of history and background to work with (my WoG campaigns are consecutive; each has built on the previous campaign). I'm not about to abandon it for a little flash and dazzle.


    Hey gargoyle, where in KC are you?
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:31 am  

    I am such a *younger generation* player, being 22 years old. My first steps into RPG and D&D in general were made with the Known World and Greyhawk years ago, and I absolutely loved it.

    I sticked to the setting for many years, yet the lack of new material compatible to 3e makes gaming increasingly difficult.

    So, I started playing 1e and will eventually try C&C, to continue with the 20 or 30 year-old material I treasure so much.

    So, while I am right now DMing right now in the FFC's version of Blackmoor, I expect to return to the Flanaess soon with a game set in the old Aerdy, or, more likely, in Greyhawk's Blackmoor during the War.

    I introduced my youth group (15 year old lads) to the Greyhawk setting with some shorter campaigns in Keoland, on the Lendore Isles, and in the Bright Desert. Now, while my boys ejoyed the game a lot, it's very unlikely that they're going to DM ever in the Flanaess. - The lack of easy-to-access printed material is their main problem. Still, while they're currently mad with the World-of-Warcraft universe, and barely talk about something else, whenever we talk about the kidnapping of the prince of Keoland, I see a glance in their eyes WOW doesn't really provoke. In short, I think there would be many youngsters that liked to play Greyhawk, but don't do because there are no resources.

    Sad, but on the other hand, isn't it great that such old-fashioned stuff like ours still can delight so many people, even very kewl and streetsmart teens like my boys? Smile
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