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    Canonfire :: View topic - Class Demographics
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    Class Demographics
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed May 31, 2006 8:20 pm  
    Class Demographics

    How common are the various classes in your Greyhawk campaign? For example how many Clerics, Fighters, Wizards, etc... are there per, let's say 1000 people. Plus what roles and places in society do most members of the classes play in your campaign? Do most wizards live in large cities where they can find employment by rich nobles or teach at prestigious schools of wizardry? Are most fighters adventurers, members of the knightly class, mercenary captains, or whatever? Are the majority of high level Clerics non-adventurers who have gained most of their "experience" by doing the day-to-day of taking care of their flock?

    Okay I'm making the original question more complicated, but I'm just trying to start a discussion.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed May 31, 2006 9:20 pm  

    I generally assume that most NPCs are not of any 'adventuring class'. I don't really think about exactly how many of each exist, but its a pretty small number (1 per 1000 people or so, for spellcaster types. A bit more for warrior types).

    Most priests are experts (aristocrats or commoners in some cases). The priests that study divine magic and/or weapons are part of special orders within their churches. Similar to the distinction between Jesuits and regular clergy in the catholic church. The 'special clergy' spend their time studying magic in special institutions or undertaking tasks requiring their special skills.

    Wizards and sorcerors do a lot of different things with their time. Obviously, they spend most of their time in the lab studying magic. But they do a variety of things to support that.

    I tend not to have too many full fledged 'rogue' NPCs with the full assortment of the class skills. All of the ones that do are adventurers or special agents of one sort or another.

    Fighters are the most common. I use the class to represent individuals with especially noteworthy martial skill, regardless of their career field. A typical soldier will be be a warrior or aristocrat. The top swordsmen in the legions (or whatever) will be fighters.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:32 am  

    Ya I pretty much agree. I would say that 90% of human and halfling villagers and townsfolk will be Commoners whether they are mayors, militia, butchers, bakers, or candlestick makers (with skill focus used for particularly talented craftsmen).

    Traditionally, elves, gnomes, and dwarves have more commonly been warriors, although I think under 3.5 the races have been geared so that even a commoner has more martial prowess (or some 0-level spells) than a human or a halfling e.g. elves get some free martial proficiencies in sword and bow.

    After Commoners, Warriors would be the most common class, and I agree with the comments about most soldiers being warriors with a few of the more skilled being fighters. It is quite frustrating when writers list even the most common guardsmen as fighters. To my mind, fighters are highly skilled, adventuring types.

    Next probably the most common would be fighters, then rogues, then experts and priests, then rangers, followed by aristocrats, barbarians, bards, druids, monks, and wizards in equal measure, with paladins bringing up the rear.

    I'm a fan of low magic, and in my campaign the famous high level wizard npcs are pretty much the only ones. I placed quite severe restrictions on the number of level 11+ wizards running around.

    Demographics certainly varies from nation to nation, e.g. with some having very few arcane spellcasters. My one major criticism about the demographics of Living Greyhawk is that each region has gone to great pains to make all classes readily available, which has led to a disproportionate number of high level characters of each class in every region, including some nations that have whole batallions of wizards running around! One or two wizards per batallion, maybe but not whole batallions in my Greyhawk thank you!
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:51 am  
    Gran March

    Here is the table that I worked out for the Gran March.

    Distribution of Classes
    Male Classes 1 in % Total
    Warrior/Commoner 2/ 57.14% 66,286
    Warrior 5/ 20.00% 23,200
    Commoner 8/ 12.50% 14,500
    Fighter 31/ 3.23% 3,742
    Aristocrat 40/ 2.50% 2,900
    Expert 45/ 2.22% 2,578
    Adept 153/ 0.65% 758
    Cleric 199/ 0.50% 583
    Ranger 200/ 0.50% 580
    Bard 400/ 0.25% 290
    Wizard 700/ 0.14% 166
    Rogue 750/ 0.13% 155
    Sorcerer 1200/ 0.08% 97
    Druid 1750/ 0.06% 66
    Alchemist 2500/ 0.04% 46
    Paladin 2000/ 0.05%/ 58
    Noble 8000/ 0.01% 15
    100.00% 116,005


    Female Classes 1 in % Total
    Warrior/Commoner 7/ 14.29% 19,778
    Warrior 10/ 10.00% 13,844
    Commoner 2/ 50.00% 69,221
    Fighter 100/ 1.00% 1,384
    Aristocrat 19/ 5.26% 7,286
    Expert 6/ 16.67% 23,074
    Adept 100/ 1.00% 1,384
    Cleric 150/ 0.67% 923
    Ranger 300/ 0.33% 461
    Bard 300/ 0.33% 461
    Wizard 800/ 0.13% 173
    Rogue 1000/ 0.10% 138
    Sorcerer 1200/ 0.08% 115
    Druid 1850/ 0.05% 75
    Alchemist 2000/ 0.05% 69
    Paladin 4500/ 0.02% 31
    Noble 8000/ 0.01% 17
    100.00% 138,437
    Class Totals
    Warrior/Commoner 86,064
    Commoner 37,045
    Expert 83,722
    Warrior 5,126
    Aristocrat 10,186
    Fighter 25,652
    Adept 2,143
    Cleric 1,506
    Ranger 1,041
    Bard 751
    Wizard 339
    Rogue 293
    Sorcerer 212
    Druid 141
    Alchemist 116
    Paladin 89
    Noble 32
    254,457
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:52 am  

    Ok,

    Sorry about the formatting, I have tried to edit it, but it hasnt worked out yet. It is supposed to be 1 person in x number is a certain class, which is x percent of the population and a total number of persons. I have not broken it out by race.

    If it is too confusing, please skip it.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:32 am  

    Thanks for all the replies so far. It seems we all agree for the most part. I'm wondering if all of you would characterize your campaigns as "low magic." I know PaulN6 does and I would describe mine the same way.

    Anced_math, that's a pretty impressive table. The only thing I'm wondering about is the reason for the scarcity of rogues. Is it that many of the professions that most people would fill with rogues are taken up by experts?

    Vormaerin, very nice explantation of the clergy. I had never approached it that way but think I will now. Thanks.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:36 am  

    I've worked this out very specifically for humans in my campaign. (I haven't done this for demi-humans yet.) Keep in mind that this is for AD&D.

    Code:
    CLASS              # PER 1,000,000
    Cavalier                    21
     Paladin                     1
    Cleric                    2167
     Druid                     346
    Fighter                   2132
     Barbarian                  44
     Hunter*                    18
     Ranger                     74
    Magic-User                2167
     Illusionist                74
    Thief                     2167
     Acrobat                    73
     Assassin                  688
    Monk                        22
    Bard                         4

    * The hunter is a "new" AD&D class published by Gary Gygax in Realms of Adventure #2 c. 1988.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:31 pm  
    smilian

    Smilian,

    Yes, experts take up many of the slots that rogues might otherwise take. Also, it is a fairly rural population, and one that is extremly lawful. With a large number of warriors, and realtively few easy targets, being a rogue is a tough job in the March.

    There are still thieves, bandits and such. But being a bandit is much easier if you have warrior style skills, since everyone else does.

    I do not characterize my campaign as "low," magic. Rather, IMC, magic is somewhat common and at the very least familiar to most, particularly clerical magic; wizards and sorcerers are considerably more rare due to centuries of prohabitions.

    However, magic is generally horded by the temples/wizards and nobles of the realm. Also, I work in more items/materials than most that do not radiate magic but exhibit magic properties. Mithral and Admantium are such materials.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:49 pm  

    Yes, I characterize my campaign as 'low magic', if that term is used in the context of D&D games. It is not low magic the way Harn is or the novels of George Martin are. Magical items and the services of spell casters are certainly available, but they are uncommon and expensive. Most people simply cannot afford "real" potions, much less permanent magical items. Those spellcasters who do make magical items for the market do so by commission. Of course, that's how I have most goods made. "Off the rack" shopping is a rarity IMC.

    The limited number of rogues for me does not reflect anything about the presence or absence of crime. Rather, it is the nature of the class abilities that make it, more than any other class save perhaps the cleric, an explicitly "adventuring" class. Use Magic Device, Evasion, the special ability to see high end and/or magical traps that others don't have, sneak attack, etc are all things that most people in traditional rogue type roles would need or have. Socialites/intriguers, petty criminals, spies, locksmiths, and so on are quite common. I just don't use the rogue class proper to represent them. Milady de Winter doesn't need the ability to Evade fireballs.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:38 pm  

    You all seem to be using expert the way I am then, although I probably play a little looser with the rogue class than it sounds like you do, Vormaerin. Though you make a good argument not to do so. Just like everyone who uses a sword in his profession isn't a fighter neither should every spy, etc be a rogue.

    I think I'm the lowest "low magic" of you all. "Off the rack" magic item shopping never occurs IMC. Magic-items are extremely rare, usually "named" items. Even so the existence of hedge-wizards, wise-women and such make potions fairly available in comparison.

    Anced_Math, I'm wondering about the "centuries of prohibitions" on arcane magic in your campaign. Is that just in Bissel or general to the Flanaess? What are the reasons?

    Thanks for your breakdown, DMPrata. Based on the equal numbers of clerics and magic-users, I'm interested in how you treat the whole dynamic of the priesthoods of the various gods. Are all members of the clergy clerics, or are there just specialists who are adventurers and divine spell-casters like Vormaein described? Or are the numbers of clergy and magic-users roughly equal in society?
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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:48 pm  

    Regarding Anced Math's comments.. The Sheldomar Valley area has generally had some pretty restrictive views and laws on the practice of magic. The Silent Ones of Keoland used to enforce them quite stringently, but they have been steadily relaxed in practice. Still, the population at large generally associates magic with bad things more than good things.

    Strictly speaking, its illegal to practice arcane magic unless you are a member of one of the noble families (or directly sponsored by them as a court wizard sort), are part of the National Academy of Wizardry, or otherwise get specific permission from either the Academy or the Silent Ones. Nowadays, free mages are generally not bothered if they don't bring untoward attention to themselves. But its still not a welcoming environment the way Greyhawk City generally is.

    Regarding the magic items.. I don't sell them off the rack, either. I was saying that I don't generally sell much of anything off the rack. Some things that are generic are sold ready made, but clothes, weapons, etc are all made to order except for the very cheapest versions. I personally think its very important to have names and detailed descriptions for all magic items other than straight disposables. It makes them far more interesting and keeps the players happy with them without the constant demand for upgrades. Sulivel, the sword of the hero Grundhagar, is more noteworthy than a "greatsword+1".
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:08 pm  

    Sorry, I meant my question for Anced_Math to say Gran March, not Bissel. Thanks for the answer Vormaerin. Is that a development that has only been around since LG? I had never heard that in any pre-LG material.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:16 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Thanks for your breakdown, DMPrata. Based on the equal numbers of clerics and magic-users, I'm interested in how you treat the whole dynamic of the priesthoods of the various gods. Are all members of the clergy clerics, or are there just specialists who are adventurers and divine spell-casters like Vormaein described? Or are the numbers of clergy and magic-users roughly equal in society?


    I do treat all clergy members as clerics proper (though each priesthood is different see the Deitybase for details). Some are actively involved in adventuring, some are former adventurers who chose to settle down and tend a congregation, and some have always been "cloistered." The assumption is that there's some mechanism by which these less-active NPCs can gain experience and class levels without adventuring. So long as they never out-pace their more adventurous brethren, I see no need to actually develop rules for this advancement; I just assign levels as I see fit.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:53 pm  

    Dunno exactly when it was introduced, but its certainly been extensively developed by Gary Holian and Samwise for the LG campaign. It wasn't in the early editions of the Gazeteers and the like, but then little actually was.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:19 pm  

    Vormaerin wrote:
    It wasn't in the early editions of the Gazeteers and the like, but then little actually was.


    Yeah, that's why the early editions are the only thing I consider canon. I have free rein to do whatever I want from there on. Wink

    I understand the reasons for the prohibitions but wouldn't think that would fly in a culture that is predominantly Suel-influenced, unless hatred and fear of arcane magic was already something inherent in the lower classes of the Suloise Empire, even with it being such a magic-driven culture.
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    Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:34 pm  

    The basic premise is that Keoland was settled by three basic groups: The Suel refugees from the Rain of Colorless Fire, the Flan survivors of Vecna's reign of terror, and the Keogh Oeridians who were driven out of the west by the Invoked Devastation.

    So all three of those groups have a strong reason to be concerned about unrestricted magical power. And there have been other disasters since then, though not on that scale. The wars of the Vecna wannabes, the Toli Necromancers, and most recently Evard's necromancers in Bissel.

    So the early empire was formed with the Silent Ones firmly in place to keep new Twin Cataclysms from happening. The fear that has kept them in power is waning, which is why the laws aren't as enforced as before. But it remains commonplace nevertheless.
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    Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:46 am  

    The 'low magic' demographic is the most interesting one.

    Traditionally, many nations have had few wizards and sorcerers of any real ability. If you look back over the gazeteers you will see that the rovers, bakluni, nomads, barbarians, Furyondy, Keoland, and many other nations have no tradition of producing powerful arcane spell-casters for various reasons. Greyhawk, the Great Kingdom, and Celene are probably among the few nations where there is a strong tradtion of magical education.

    The old article on sorcerous societies of the Flanaess was a good one for detailing the various pockets of wizardly skill around the Flanaess. Greyhawk city and the Zashassir in Ekbir are probably the most notable locations for wizardly congregation. LG diluted this quite a bit by having each nation with its own powerful guild to make it easier for the players to have local talent but I'd be inclined to underplay the power of these institutions in a home campaign.

    Having said that, I suppose there could be a fair number of minor hedge wizards who know a few spells making up the numbers. However, I think I'd consider any character above level 4 to be quite powerful in the eyes of the general population who have no ranks in spellcraft.

    Adventuring is a high risk endeavour and most wizards just potter around in their studies, advancing slowly. This is also why high level wizards are often elderly, and why there are more higher level wizards than high level fighters or rogues because the latter continually have to put themselves in harms way to increase in level. (curiously the 3.5 rules allow for 20 year old archmages if they step out the door because advancement is now so rapid, while those that stay home and study actually lose experience by making scrolls - I know it's to do with game mechanics but it does defy the logic of the elderly master wizard)
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:46 am  
    Levels

    PaulN6 wrote

    Quote:

    However, I think I'd consider any character above level 4 to be quite powerful in the eyes of the general population


    I have always been intrigued by the idea of levels in broader society in D&D. Traditionally 1st level characters enter a village and find, what else, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level npcs. 20th level characters walk into the same village 6 game years later and find... 20th level npcs!

    IMC I have implemented a new standard. All pc races gain xp in life. At 15 years of age a human gains their 1st level (or equivalent age for non-humans). If they are not in serious training, they get a npc class. If they are in training of some sort, they gain a PC level.

    Every 7 years after this they gain an additional level. Thus the distribution looks like this:

    15 yrs - 1st level
    22 yrs - 2nd level
    29 yrs - 3rd level
    36 yrs - 4th level
    43 yrs - 5th level
    50 yrs - 6th level
    57 yrs - 7th level
    64 yrs - 8th level
    71 yrs - 9th level
    78 yrs - 10th level
    85 yrs - 11th level
    92 yrs - 12th level
    99 yrs - 13th level
    106 yrs - 14th level

    These are generally npc classes. However, if a 3rd level fighter challenges a 12th level warrior, they may find themselves a wee bit overmatched.

    I have a house rule that a character will get a npc level if they sit around for 7 years, they choose which. Also, if a npc is seriously training in a class (warrior/expert/adept) they can gain a level in 5 years. I also leave the training option open to PCs, but they cannont double dip (train 2 years, adventure and gain a level, then train for three and gain a level, for example). This may push a character into epic level early, which could anger someone who has munchkined out their character to maximize every aspect.

    Thus, IMC, level is generally by age. The village elders may be 8th level commoners, but they are still 8th level.

    You also take the age factors into account... 106 year old warrior is not nearly as formidable as a 106 year old adept. I should note that my campaigns often have significantly more down time than the adventure paths, for example. They characters are expected (and enjoy) becoming part of the community, and generally will spend months to years between adventures.

    One final note... they do not get xp over time in this system. After 5 years they gain a level and xp. This prevents the long lived races from having 800 magic items. They cannot sit around and burn xp on item creation and then go adventuring again with no penalty.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:52 am  
    Re: Levels

    Anced_Math wrote:
    IMC I have implemented a new standard. All pc races gain xp in life. At 15 years of age a human gains their 1st level (or equivalent age for non-humans). If they are not in serious training, they get a npc class. If they are in training of some sort, they gain a PC level.


    This is a very nice innovation. I like this alot although I'd probably tend to use it in more of an on-the-fly way than you have because I use more of loose (read: mechanics-lazy) Dming style.

    There should be a Mundane Feats post-fest for NPC classes where people could come up with things like the equivalent of Greater Weapon Focus for Expert farmers. Maybe for next April 1st?

    I agree with PaulN6 that hedge-wizards could account for a considerable amount of the arcane spell-casting population although IMC there are a good number of minor wizards who are employed by the minor noblility and greater gentry. That's the main motivation behind schools of wizardry. Level progression for such wizards is probably going to be slow, as you have noted, but I see the employment of a wizard by a minor baron or wealthy knight to be almost as much about status as utility.

    Likewise every minor noble who commands a decent sized retinue is going to employ a battle-chaplain corresponding to the adventuring cleric class, or at least one trained in divine magic.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:06 am  

    In the Gran March Project Section, you will find the expanded age/level table by race.
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    Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:28 am  

    I increased All the Leadership NPC followers by one level with up to 20 - 50% of Level One Mostly Mid Teen Com - 1 War - 1 Militia Recruits and successfully serving their first enlistment transforms them into War - 2.

    For the majority of standard NPCs I assume they develop and improve increasing skills and HD like the monsters. They typically earn 100 to 120 experience points a year in mostly non life threatening situations for humans, half orcs and half elves more or less prorating gained experience for longer lived NPCs like Halfling, Dwarves, Gnomes and Elves to their Biological Ages vice chronological years. The main effect is to Decrease Level 1 demographics for most classes until they are basically balanced out for Levels One to Five and to use standard demographics for truly exceptional individuals over Level 5.

    So it's First level at middle teens, Second level at middle 20s, Third level at middle 40s and Fourth level at middle 60s and Fifth level at middle 80s with the following modifiers:

    Aristocrats, Warriors and Adepts get a +1 Level modifier at all ages as the primary NPCs involved with handling dangerous problems. (Aristocrats get the better education and problems are taken to them because of their position in society (even if they generally delegate the problems to someone else), Warriors get regular training and involved in more generally less dangerous, non life threatening experiences (tavern brawls along with the occassional patrol in formation encountering bandits or a wandering monster) and Adepts get consulted about solving various problems in general).

    Nonstandard Rural communities (Thorps, Hamlets and Villages) in the Frontier/Borderlands get another +1 Level adjustment. Places like The Keep on the Border, Northern Furyondy along the border of the Empire of Iuz.

    I use a variant of the Druid Demographics so there is a 5% chance that the highest level commoner in a community is actually an Adept with a 1% chance there is actually a Sorcerer Style Witch NPC from the DMG (Innate Power and No costly spell books) and occassionally troublesome parties will find both.


    Last edited by castlemike on Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:08 pm  

    So far everything I've seen here has been 3E.

    I have my own tables for class demographics, but they are either 2E or 2E plus my own classes for demi-humans.

    If that would be of use to someone I could post them.
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:09 pm  

    DMPrata's table above is for 2E.

    Even though the classes may not exactly match between 2E and 3E it's still of interest, so let's see how you've done it.
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    Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:13 am  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    DMPrata's table above is for 2E.


    D'oh. How could I miss the bold white letters?

    smillan_31 wrote:

    Even though the classes may not exactly match between 2E and 3E it's still of interest, so let's see how you've done it.


    First of all, I figure how many of the population is “advanceable” (not stuck at 0 level). DMG1 suggests 1 person in 100, and I use that as my baseline, but modify it by how violent the local culture is.

    In a “savage” environment, 1 person in 10 is advananceable.
    In a “warlike” environment, 1 person in 50.
    In a “standard feudal” environment, 1 person in 100.
    In a “peaceful” environment, 1 person in 500.


    Once I have the number of people I am working with, I apply the classes with the baseline given in WoGG,

    Cleric: 15%
    Fighter: 50%
    Magic-User: 10%
    Thief: 24%
    Other: 1%

    This baseline I modify depending on my perception of the culture for each country or region.

    For example, in Perrenland, I leave clerics as is but take half each from magic users and thieves and give it to fighters.

    Perrenland Base:
    Cleric 15%
    Fighter 67% (50+5+12)
    Magic User 5% (10-5)
    Thief 12% (24-12)
    Other 1%

    In Furyondy, I leave magic users as they are but take half the thief percent and divide it between clerics and fighters.

    Furyondy Base:
    Cleric 21% (15+6)
    Fighter 56% (50+6)
    Magic User 10%
    Thief 12% (24-12)
    Other 1%


    Once I have the base percents established, then I fill in the sub-classes as I believe reflects local culture.

    Perrenland Subclasses (In order of prevalence)
    Clerics = Clan Keeper, Priest, Druid
    Fighters = Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Paladin
    Magic User = Mage, Illusionist
    Thief = Bard, Bandit, Scout, Thief, Assassin
    Other = Monk

    Furyondy Subclasses (in order of prevalence)
    Cleric = Priest, Specialist Priest, Druid
    Fighter = Fighter, Cavalier, Ranger, Paladin
    Magic User = Specialist Wizard, Mage
    Thief = Thief, Bard, Bandit, Assassin
    Other = Alchemist


    Finally, I divide up the points available in each class to the possible sub-classes, with the sub-class last listed getting at least 1% and the others progressively more.

    Perrenland Class Table
    Clerics (15%)
    10% Keeper of the Clan
    3% Priest/ess of God/dess
    2% Druid

    Fighters (67%)
    40% Fighter
    15% Ranger
    10% Barbarian (Mountains)
    2% Paladin (Clan)

    Magic User (5%)
    4% Mage
    1% Illusionists

    Thieves (12%)
    4% Bard
    3% Bandit
    2% Scout
    2% Thief
    1% Assassin

    1% Monk




    Furyondy Class Table

    Cleric 21%
    15% Priest
    5% Specialty Priest
    1% Druid

    Fighter 56%
    40% Fighter
    8% Cavalier
    4% Ranger
    2% Paladin

    Magic User 10%
    6% Specialist Wizard
    4% Mage

    Thief 12%
    5% Thief
    4% Bard
    2% Bandit
    1% Assassin

    Other 1% Alchemist


    In theory, this is done for every country or region. In practice, I build them as I need them.

    The last complication would be altering the percentages based on the level of the individual. For example, in Furyondy within fighters, the generic fighter would decrease at mid-levels and cavaliers, rangers, and paladins would all increase. At high levels, cavaliers and paladins would increase even further.

    My tables for demi-humans actually have percents for class unique to each level, but they do not use country or regional variation.
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    My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 05, 2004
    Posts: 1446


    Send private message
    Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:36 am  
    Re: Levels

    Anced_Math wrote:
    IMC I have implemented a new standard. All pc races gain xp in life. At 15 years of age a human gains their 1st level (or equivalent age for non-humans). If they are not in serious training, they get a npc class. If they are in training of some sort, they gain a PC level.

    Every 7 years after this they gain an additional level. Thus the distribution looks like this:

    15 yrs - 1st level
    22 yrs - 2nd level
    29 yrs - 3rd level
    36 yrs - 4th level
    43 yrs - 5th level
    50 yrs - 6th level
    57 yrs - 7th level
    64 yrs - 8th level
    71 yrs - 9th level
    78 yrs - 10th level
    85 yrs - 11th level
    92 yrs - 12th level
    99 yrs - 13th level
    106 yrs - 14th level

    These are generally npc classes. However, if a 3rd level fighter challenges a 12th level warrior, they may find themselves a wee bit overmatched.


    This is one of the cooler ideas I've encountered. My only thought would be to drop the time interval by character type at younger ages, while advancing it at higher ages and quasi-bell curve the result to account for some plateauing in the middle age range and decreasing/slowing ability thereafter. Maybe a table for each of the four core classes. If one wanted to get complicated, provide stat adjustments to each table for extraordinary key ability scores.
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    GVD
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 113
    From: Orland Hills, Illinois

    Send private message
    Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:19 am  
    Re: Levels

    Since most NPC's do not go killing thru experience points, my method of explaining NPC advancement is thru story awards (which is the only thing I like about 3E xp). I use that as the manner to explain level advancement for NPCs who rarely see combat. I have given a rough estimate of about 1000 xp for each "interesting event" in their lives. Though I am a 3E/3.5 junkie, I grew up on 1E/2E experience and advancement so I dislike the current rapid xp advancement system.

    For generic cities, towns, etc. I just use the DMG, then fudge a little. Even if you assign maximum on all rolls rolls in order to make the population have higher level characters, a city of 25001 inhabitants has roughly 8% of its people in PC classes. Only about 1% of the city has PC levels higher than 2nd.
    On the NPC side, NPCs classes are 92% of the Population, and only 2% of a city have NPC levels above 1st. 90% of the population are 1st level NPC classes. As the population increases, the percentages for all groups except NPC classes of 1st level keeps dropping. Also, on average rolls the percentages drop considerably. the fudging comes in if I want to detail a city. Then I use the numbers as a basis to flesh out the demographics.

    For all NPCs, the xp for items is not a big deal. Many, many of my spellcaster NPCs are considered to have burned their own xp to have the items they posess and gained the necessary feats along the way. Probably is the reason why most do not part with them willingly...
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1076
    From: Orlane, Gran March

    Send private message
    Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:45 am  

    Quote:
    GVD Wrote:

    My only thought would be to drop the time interval by character type at younger ages, while advancing it at higher ages and quasi-bell curve the result to account for some plateauing in the middle age range and decreasing/slowing ability thereafter. Maybe a table for each of the four core classes. If one wanted to get complicated, provide stat adjustments to each table for extraordinary key ability scores.



    Well, I actually used the PHB age categories to work on this, and, when I worked through a fairly detailed population table, I found that I didnt need to adjust it. Using the declining abilities scores found in the PHB, and the average abilities of the average citizen, these can dramatically affect the npc.

    Also, this system is only for npc classes. If a npc has a player class, then they have to do something extrodinary (or nothing if the DM so chooses). Nathans idea for story awards could fill this.

    However, I use this system for game/adventure design, nation/city building. In my adventures, I assign what I need. It is useful, though to determine how many persons of 6th level might be found in the nation of Gran March (2573), or the number of 17th level persons in Shiboleth (2, a commoner and a multiclass warrior/commoner).

    If I could figure out how to post tables here, I would start posting some of this info.
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