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    Canonfire :: View topic - Would you buy original Castle Zagyg scans by Gary Gygax?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Would you buy original Castle Zagyg scans by Gary Gygax?
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    CF Admin

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    Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:28 pm  
    Would you buy original Castle Zagyg scans by Gary Gygax?

    http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19261 is a Dragonsfoot poll about whether folks would ever possibly be interested in buying a CD of scans of the original levels of Castle Greyhawk. I thought some folks here might consider chiming in, given that some of us have been waiting about 30 years for the Castle :D
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:44 am  

    $50 for a CD of sketch maps of random dungeon levels?
    No.
    I doubt I'd even start to consider it at over $10.
    And at this point, after all these years, when I can buy a pdf of some old adventure from Paizo for $5, I'm not sure I'd be interested in just some maps at that price.
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:48 am  

    Sad to say - I'd be in it for whatever price tag they slapped on to it. That's what happens when you're a GH junkie. Wink
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:24 am  

    Hmmm.

    Hi Grodog,

    Thank you for the links to DF. Smile I've read the thread and the threads linked in the thread. And the threads on PPP and ENWorld linked from those threads. Lots of threads. Shocked

    I am confused by RJK's "resignation" from the CZ Project. Euphemisms about "different concepts" or "different directions" or "different ideas" say nothing substantial. Some posters, suggesting insider information, seem to attribute to RJK some, unstated ulterior motive or even break with EGG. I'd be curious to know more but DF doesn't seem like it would be conducive to that kind of inquiry. Of course, brass tacks, RJK is out and EGG must pick up the pieces as he is able, which means, despite assurances, that CZ will likely be substantially delayed, if it ever sees print in anything like its projected form. I'm guessing this is where you are coming from with the poll - A Rough Guide to Castle Zagig, as it were.

    I can't really answer the poll question without more information. How many levels would be on the CD, specifically? How many rooms are on each level, specifically? A simple list would do. Alternatively, a sample level might be posted somewhere. Either way, without more information, I could not really express an opinion.

    By way of mega-dungeon comparison, I know the detail in FRs Undermountain and Necromancer Games Rappan Athuk and Paizo's Maure Castle. If a rough CZ CD were to go for $100 or even $50, it would need to stack up well with those in terms of number of levels and rooms per level.

    EGG's authorship, particularly when the encounters would just be a line, is not enough to get me to sign up without more information.

    Anyway, my two cents.
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    GVD
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:35 pm  

    Samwise wrote:
    $50 for a CD of sketch maps of random dungeon levels?
    No.
    I doubt I'd even start to consider it at over $10.
    And at this point, after all these years, when I can buy a pdf of some old adventure from Paizo for $5, I'm not sure I'd be interested in just some maps at that price.


    Sam, so does that mean you're a No, nor a "(way) less than $50" yes? :D

    GVDammerung wrote:
    Thank you for the links to DF.


    De nada.

    GVDammerung wrote:
    I am confused by RJK's "resignation" from the CZ Project. Euphemisms about "different concepts" or "different directions" or "different ideas" say nothing substantial. Some posters, suggesting insider information, seem to attribute to RJK some, unstated ulterior motive or even break with EGG. I'd be curious to know more but DF doesn't seem like it would be conducive to that kind of inquiry.


    Did you see that Rob posted a response on his PPP board, GVD?

    GVDammerung wrote:
    Of course, brass tacks, RJK is out and EGG must pick up the pieces as he is able, which means, despite assurances, that CZ will likely be substantially delayed, if it ever sees print in anything like its projected form. I'm guessing this is where you are coming from with the poll - A Rough Guide to Castle Zagig, as it were.


    That wasn't my original intent, although your idea has merit: if CZ was, for whatever reason, discontinued, the publication of the original maps and notes would be a (relatively) quick and simply way to make the content available. (And, just to further clarify: the scans I'm talking about are the original Castle Greyhawk maps and level keys; and also: this isn't really a project on Gary's plate or my plate or anyone else's plate---it's a market assessment more than anything else).

    GVDammerung wrote:
    I can't really answer the poll question without more information. How many levels would be on the CD, specifically? How many rooms are on each level, specifically? A simple list would do. Alternatively, a sample level might be posted somewhere. Either way, without more information, I could not really express an opinion.


    I believe that the original castle levles consist of 50-75 maps, presumably with 1-2 pages of notes each. I don't know this for a fact, though (that's just based on the what I've been able to figure out from some of RJK's auction items).

    GVDammerung wrote:
    Anyway, my two cents.


    Thanks for your input, and everyone else's too.
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:40 pm  

    grodog wrote:
    Sam, so does that mean you're a No, nor a "(way) less than $50" yes? :D


    A "(way) less than $50" maybe. Cool
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    Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:42 pm  

    $50 Hmmm...

    For scans of the maps AND legible notes on all the areas, perhaps. It would depend on the total content.

    If it is for just the maps then put me in the "way less than $50" group too.
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    Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:00 am  

    Surely better buy it in original module on ebay. Wink
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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:21 pm  

    GVDammerung wrote:

    I am confused by RJK's "resignation" from the CZ Project. Euphemisms about "different concepts" or "different directions" or "different ideas" say nothing substantial. Some posters, suggesting insider information, seem to attribute to RJK some, unstated ulterior motive or even break with EGG. I'd be curious to know more but DF doesn't seem like it would be conducive to that kind of inquiry.


    http://p085.ezboard.com/fpiedpiperpublishingfrm3.showMessage?topicID=114.topic

    Rob clarifies things a bit, saying that "marketing direction" is the focus of the differing opinions that led to his departure from the project.

    Given the comments on Troll Lord's Blog, it seems that Rob was more interested in maintaining originality and staying true to the original maps and encounter notes, while Gygax and TLG want to instead focus on a more general "original feel".

    http://trolldens.blogspot.com/

    If this is the case, I think that GH fans should applaud Rob's stance. IMO, if the Castle Gygax and TLG are working on now is not to be the original castle, it's no better a "Castle Greyhawk" than Greyhawk Ruins is.
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    Last edited by ratdemon on Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:27 pm  

    As far as the original question goes, as I explained on Grodog's similar thread on WotC forum, I'm basically in the same camp as Samwise.

    Unless the collection is positively huge, or chock full of goodies, I think the prices suggested are outrageously high.

    Given that a collaboration between the two on such a CD seems unlikely now, and the fact that RJK demonstrates a far greater interest in GH (sure, he's loyal to an old school canon GH, but Gygax displays no interest in the setting beyond Castle Zagyg, and the points in my previous post suggest that even on that he's willing to make revisions where RJK is not), I'd actually rather see such a project done by RJK, with encounter notes, commentary and other old school AD&D "goodies" as he saw fit.

    I would still balk at a $50 price tag though Laughing
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    Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:25 pm  

    grodog wrote:
    I believe that the original castle levles consist of 50-75 maps, presumably with 1-2 pages of notes each. I don't know this for a fact, though (that's just based on the what I've been able to figure out from some of RJK's auction items).


    In this case, I'd go $50, easy. That's 50 pages of maps (low end) and 50 pages of notes (low end), hopefully legible. So 100 pages minumum. Key for me in such case would be ease of ordering. Maybe do the whole thing as a PDF at RPGNOWor DrivethruRPG? Could be cheaper.

    ratdemon wrote:
    Given the comments on Troll Lord's Blog, it seems that Rob was more interested in maintaining originality and staying true to the original maps and encounter notes, while Gygax and TLG want to instead focus on a more general "original feel".

    http://trolldens.blogspot.com/

    If this is the case, I think that GH fans should applaud Rob's stance. IMO, if the Castle Gygax and TLG are working on now is not to be the original castle, it's no better a "Castle Greyhawk" than Greyhawk Ruins is.


    I agree. Completely.
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    GVD
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    Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:59 pm  

    50-75 maps with 100-150 pages of accompanying notes?

    Yeah, I'd plunk down $50 for that, considering that from bits and pieces I've accumulated over the years I'd probably be able to fill in some of the gaps.

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    Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:18 pm  

    Thanks for the input folks. The thread on DF is mostly-dead now, but I appreciate the willingness to provide feedback on the idea.

    RJK is definitely planning to publish some of his original mss., including the Bottle City level among many others. Keep an eye on the PPP pages/forums for developments over the next few weeks :D
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:58 am  

    I'd pay $50 dollars for 50 pages of maps and 100 pages of notes from the original Castle, no questionnes.
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:10 am  

    grodog wrote:
    RJK is definitely planning to publish some of his original mss., including the Bottle City level among many others. Keep an eye on the PPP pages/forums for developments over the next few weeks :D


    I noticed that last year sometime, the original notes for the Bottle City level were up for sale on eBay. Included a scan of the map, iirc. I didn't bid, as it came at a time of poor cash-flow, but I'm sure it went for a mint.

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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:53 am  

    grodog wrote:
    RJK is definitely planning to publish some of his original mss., including the Bottle City level among many others. Keep an eye on the PPP pages/forums for developments over the next few weeks :D


    Do we have any notion of what system these would use for encounters? C&C? OGL? d20? Lejendary Adventures? Other?
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:01 pm  

    GVDammerung wrote:
    grodog wrote:
    RJK is definitely planning to publish some of his original mss., including the Bottle City level among many others. Keep an eye on the PPP pages/forums for developments over the next few weeks :D


    Do we have any notion of what system these would use for encounters? C&C? OGL? d20? Lejendary Adventures? Other?


    Rob is using a genericized 1e "clone" system, very loosely based on the OGL and SRD, from what i understand. The SRD will be used simply so he can call Strength Strength, instead of mimicing the terminology, calling it brawn, for example. If you check out DF or PPP for news on his current projects, you'll see more details, but it's essentially 1e AD&D, with the serial numbers filed off to avoid a lawsuit.

    If you're familiar with 1980s AD&D knockoff product lines such as those from Mayfair and Flying Buffalo, you'll have a fair idea of what Rob's new stuff will look like, only with a bit less legal controversy attached due to the OGL.
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:33 pm  

    Rich's description is correct for the first release, Cairn of the Skeleton King. The next adventures will be OGL based for sure.
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:15 pm  

    This is slightly off topic, but I thought I'd ask anyway... Grodog, do you know if RJK intends to publish the other 5 adventures that were supposed to follow Dark Druids?
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    Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:05 pm  

    If he does, TwiceBorn, it's not going to be through TLG. We haven't spoken about the DQ series in awhile, so my hunch is that it's back-burnered at best at the moment. If you pop over to the PPP boards, you can also ask him directly, of course :D
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