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    Grottley
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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Graz'zt Reply with quote

    I am running a campaign in which a "priest" of Graz'zt appears. There is very little on spheres, specail abilities etc although I have seen and read the Thrall of Graz'zt information in the 3rd Edition. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Welcome, Grottley! Here is the Graz'zt entry from my forthcoming WORLD OF GREYHAWKģ Deitybase:
    Quote:
    GRAZíZT (Lesser God)
    (GRAZT)

    The Ebon Lord

    AL CE; WAL LE, NE, CE; SoC Power, Rulership, Evil Scheming; SY Pincer-like tongs (basalt); AN Lamia; CR†White; HD†None; PoW Anywhere; CL Clerics; PN Abyss.

    One of the most powerful demon rulers of the Abyss is Grazízt, lord of three entire layers and dedicated foe of both Demogorgon and Orcus. He was, in fact, waging a winning battle against the troglodyte, harpy, and bar-lgura armies. At†a crucial moment, however, Grazízt was magically taken to the Prime Material Plane and forced into bondage by a mighty magic-user. He battled free at the cost of being confined to his own realm for a century.

    Grazízt has become so successful in the Abyss simply because he is unflinchingly evil and a brilliant strategist. The†Ebon†Lord has surrounded himself with the most calculating and loyal minds in all demondom, including the demon†lord Verin (or Vuron). Grazízt is served by lamias and will always have at least one with him at all times. He is also likely to have succubi or a type V demoness with him in his lair.

    Grazízt normally employs a huge shield and a huge, wavy-bladed sword that drips acid upon command. The other weapon Grazízt uses is a gisarme. By sneer and word, Grazízt engenders fear in all who see and hear his displeasure. He†can gate in type VI demons or babau demons without fail.

    Grazízt is the handsomest of demon rulers, at least by human standards. He appears as a huge, good-looking man, although his skin is shining black and his eyes glowing green. His pointed ears and small fangs are merely indicative of his†alien nature. Grazízt is six-fingered and six-toed.


    Grazíztís Clerics


    Sex M, F; AB Str 13, Cha 12; AL NE, CE; AEx None; WPN Bastard sword (1st), dagger, hammer, khopesh, knife, long†sword, mace, pole arm, scimitar, short sword, two-handed sword; AR Standard; RA Violet robe or†gown; PW 1)detect good 1/day per odd-numbered level (2/day at 3rd level, 3/day at 5th level, etc.), use†fighter†THAC0, 5)fear†2/day; TU Command.

    Grazízt, the Ebon Lord, father to the vile Iuz the Old and ruler of Azzagrat, the Triple Realm, is perhaps the demon prince most closely tied to the affairs of Oerth and is a hated figure in the texts of nearly every benevolent god. It was Grazízt who helped Iggwilv to dominate Perrenland nearly a century ago, and it is Grazízt still who meddles (some say through Iggwilv herself) in the affairs of Oerth. Perhaps most frightening of all, Grazízt has somehow managed to command a large segment of the drow population of Oerth, and he has found some way to grant spells to his followers. His method is a matter of great interest for nearly every demon of the Abyss more powerful than a vrock, and, of course, Lolth is livid. Clerics of Grazízt may substitute the 4th-level magic-user spell confusion for a clerical spell of the same level.

    Keep in mind that this was written as a 1E/2E hybrid, so some things may not gel perfectly with 2E. I handle spell spheres a little differently, but I think I can reconstruct them as follows: All, Charm, Combat, Creation*, Healing, Necromantic*, Protection*, Sun*, plus the following additional spells ó divination, commune, spike stones.
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    Grottley
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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Many thanks. That gives me a good start and I can convert the details into the Priest format I use.
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    Grottley
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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thanks DM Prata

    A couple of comments: -

    1. Though he is a skilled warrior, I have always taken the view that it was generally accepted that Grazízt prefers to fight with magic when he can and to use steath, cunning and guile rather than brute force. This would possibly lead his followers into a thieving area rather than a fighting area?

    2. I am not sure on what the commanding of undead is based. Granted he is evil and his followers likewise, would not an ability for his Priests to summon minor demons (using the old terminology) not be more appropriate?

    Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Grottley wrote:
    1. Though he is a skilled warrior, I have always taken the view that it was generally accepted that Grazízt prefers to fight with magic when he can and to use steath, cunning and guile rather than brute force. This would possibly lead his followers into a thieving area rather than a fighting area?


    I tried to build Graz'zt's priesthood around Eclavdra as portrayed in the Gord novels. I didn't want to give his clerics too many "flashy" abilities that Eclavdra couldn't have used herself (as if EGG had the "Graz'zt cleric" template in front of him when writing Wink ). If I stated that all clerics of Graz'zt could, say, summon a babau once per day, then someone (I don't know who) could ask, "Well, why couldn't Eclavdra do that in Sea of Death?"

    Grottley wrote:
    2. I am not sure on what the commanding of undead is based. Granted he is evil and his followers likewise, would not an ability for his Priests to summon minor demons (using the old terminology) not be more appropriate?


    Commanding undead is the default for evil clerics in AD&Dģ. Again, that is the system for which the Deitybase was designed, so I tried not to deviate too much without good reason.
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    callmeAndydammit
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DMPrata wrote:
    I tried to build Graz'zt's priesthood around Eclavdra as portrayed in the Gord novels.


    And here I thought she was a cleric of the Elder Elemental Eye (Tharizdun). Huh, Grazzt?
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    callmeAndydammit wrote:
    DMPrata wrote:
    I tried to build Graz'zt's priesthood around Eclavdra as portrayed in the Gord novels.


    And here I thought she was a cleric of the Elder Elemental Eye (Tharizdun). Huh, Grazzt?


    Yup. Sea of Death portrays her as the high priestess / champion of Graz'zt and ambassador to Iuz. Evidently, she converted from the faith of the EEG (who is not Tharizdun) after her failed coup.
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    Crag
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Actually, the EEG is an Aspect of Tharizdun.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Crag wrote:
    Actually, the EEG is an Aspect of Tharizdun.


    Eh. That depends on your source. From Paul Stormberg's interview with Gary Gygax in Oerth Journal #12:
    Quote:
    Q: Some people have lumped the Elder Elemental God (EEG) and Tharizdun together. My perspective is that they are distinct beings. Would you clarify their relationship, or lack thereof?

    A: I meant no relationship between the two. The Elder Elemental God I saw as a dark creative deity, one that spun form out of chaos in his portion of one universe, then lost control of his creationóas is the story with so many deities of this sort in the mythology of various peoples of earth, from Babylonian and Egyptian on. Tharizdun is a larger and more pervasive force that is multiversal but not omnipresent. That is what he sought, of course, along with omnipotence. Tharizdun failed on both accounts.
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    Cebrion
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DMPrata: What would the XP penalty for clerics of Graz'zt be(for 1e)? I assume that Graz'zt's priests don't get all of the abilities of a standard evil cleric plus the spell abilities, weapon choices, and fighter THAC0 for nothing?

    And yes, the EEG has nothing to do with Mr. T. "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" caused a bit of controversy on this front. Bad Monte! Bad!(hits with rolled up newspaper)

    As to commanding undead, what DMPrata said- standard evil cleric ability. For summoning demons there is exaction and similar spells. Reference "Unearthed Arcana"(1e) or "The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" for other spells that have to do with summoning and controlling lower planar nasties and make sure they are in the repetoire of any cleric who worships a lower planar lord.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Cebrion wrote:
    DMPrata: What would the XP penalty for clerics of Graz'zt be(for 1e)? I assume that Graz'zt's priests don't get all of the abilities of a standard evil cleric plus the spell abilities, weapon choices, and fighter THAC0 for nothing?


    After re-reading the Sea of Death source material, I've revised the priesthood of Graz'zt. (This will be forthcoming in version 4.0 of the Deitybaseô.)
    Quote:
    Grazíztís Clerics

    Sex M, F; AB Str 13, Cha 12; AL NE, CE; AEx None; WPN Bastard sword (1st), dagger, hammer, khopesh, knife, long sword, mace, pole arm, scimitar, short sword, two-handed sword; AR Standard; RA Violet robe or gown; PW 16) as hierophant druid; TU Command.

    Grazízt, the Ebon Lord, father to the vile Iuz the Old and ruler of Azzagrat, the Triple Realm, is perhaps the demon prince most closely tied to the affairs of Oerth and is a hated figure in the texts of nearly every benevolent god. It was Grazízt who helped Iggwilv to dominate Perrenland nearly a century ago, and it is Grazízt still who meddles (some say through Iggwilv herself) in the affairs of Oerth. Perhaps most frightening of all, Grazízt has somehow managed to†command a large segment of the drow population of Oerth, and he has found some way to grant spells to his†followers. His method is a matter of great interest for nearly every demon of the Abyss more powerful than a†vrock, and, of course, Lolth is livid. Clerics of Grazízt may substitute the magic-user spells confusion, dismissal, dolor, and/or ensnarement for clerical spells of the same level.

    2E spell spheres would be All, Charm, Combat, Creation*, Divination, Elemental (Earth), Healing, Necromantic*, Protection*, Summoning, Sun*. Since Eclavdra is a multi-classed cleric/fighter anyway, I can chalk her combat abilities up to being a fighter. Graz'zt's priests are now more like true demonologists. I found the hierophant abilities all fit in quite nicely, particularly the immunity to natural poisons (as Eclavdra was gifted with immunity to spider venom) and ability to alter self at will (as Eclavdra's skin pigmentation was lightened). I did not include an XP penalty for two reasons: 1) the ability score requirements, which the "standard" evil cleric doesn't have, and 2) the sphere limitations, which exclude important "standard" spells like raise dead.
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    Crag
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I stand corrected Embarassed
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    direrodent
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    PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Crag wrote:
    I stand corrected Embarassed


    Well, published GH material is probably what misleads people, since the case is made in post-gygax material for the EEG being tharizdun. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is guilty of this.

    It's one of those "whatever works for your campaign" issues, if you ask me.
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    Cebrion
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    PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DMPrata: As to the XP penalty I meant for 1e purposes, and not 2e.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Cebrion wrote:
    DMPrata: As to the XP penalty I meant for 1e purposes, and not 2e.


    I'm not sure I understand the distinction. If you look at the Deitybaseô, you'll see that I don't allow every cleric access to every spell; I use a variant of the 2E sphere structure. So, either way, clerics/priests of Graz'zt have built-in limitations in the form of ability score requirements and spell restrictions.
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    Cebrion
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I know this is the 2e forum, but I was wondering how you apply this to 1e rules basically.

    What I refer to is the structure in the 83' folio (and "GH Adventures" I believe)for clerics of certain listed deities. For example, clerics of Celestian gain special abilities at certain levels, but at the cost of paying an XP penalty.

    As there is no specific weapon or sphere limiting structure in 1e, I was wondering how this would translate to 1e.
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Cebrion wrote:
    I know this is the 2e forum, but I was wondering how you apply this to 1e rules basically.

    What I refer to is the structure in the 83' folio (and "GH Adventures" I believe)for clerics of certain listed deities. For example, clerics of Celestian gain special abilities at certain levels, but at the cost of paying an XP penalty.

    As there is no specific weapon or sphere limiting structure in 1e, I was wondering how this would translate to 1e.


    I have striven to keep all of the deities presented in the Deitybaseô balanced with respect to one another. If you choose to strip away certain limitations (such as spell spheres) in order to play a more by-the-book 1E game, then there may be imbalances. Strictly speaking, even the clerics as presented in the '83 boxed set are not "by the book"; they are variants.
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    Crag
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I seem to recall as a preview of a new publication; The primal elemental powers are seeking to release EEG. With several write ups on the elemental princes.

    Found it: Elder Elemental Eye not the EEG.
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    Cebrion
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    PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DMPrata: Nice info on Grazz't by the way. I always thought that the Abyssal Lords were overlooked in this regard. Please post other Abyssal Lord specialty priests information here too, if you develop them. Its been a while since I have checked but there probably is some info on Orcus in the Bloodstone module series.

    "Vilp-akf ícho Rentaq is but one of three EEGís. Ghaunadaur is another and there is yet a third, unnamed EEG. All three share the inverted triangle symbol and the same true form. All are dark creative deities who thrive in the elemental chaos of primordial universes. Although never together, depictions always show them as a trio, typically being worshipped by numerous sentient creatures of many different worlds and universes. It is thought that this is merely symbolic and that it is a representation of the beings across temporal, spatial, and other dimensions. Nonetheless, there is a definite unity in the triumvirate beings. Indeed, the inverted triangle symbol used to represent them is one triangle made-up of three equal triangles.

    1. Vilp-akf ícho Rentaq
    2. Ghaunadaur
    3. Unknown (as yet unrevealed)"

    The Elder Elemental Eye is generally presented as a manifestation of the EEG's, in most cases appearing within a translucent altar as part of a rather chaotic ritual that will as likely end in a boon as in death for those participating in it. The Elder Elemental Eye is likely the one true form that any one of the three EEG's uses to appear in this way. The Forgotten Realms write-up on "the" EEG, or Ghaunadaur, blatantly steals from the GDQ series and the EEG patron of House Eilserv(tentacle rods and all). There is of course no reason to limit tentacle rods to just followers of Ghaunadaur- they might be something used by those who serve any one of the three EEG's.


    Last edited by Cebrion on Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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    DMPrata
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    PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Cebrion wrote:
    DMPrata: Nice info on Grazz't by the way. I always thought that the Abyssal Lords were overlooked in this regard. Please post other Abyssal Lord specialty priests information here too, if you develop them. Its been a while since I have checked but there probably is some info on Orcus in the Bloodstone module series.


    These are available in The Demonic Pantheon of the Deitybaseô, although I have not uploaded the revised priesthood of Graz'zt yet.
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