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    Canonfire :: View topic - The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges ...
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Readers Workshop
    The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges ...
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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    Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:29 am  
    The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges ...

    The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges: Vecna, the Mara, and Ashardalon

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=824&mode=thread&order=2&thold=0

    That was a very interesting article. Well written and well documented. I like the use of Greyhawk Lite (as long as they are going to use that absurd notion of default) to the degree it is sustainable.

    Not being a 3E gamer, I do not own any of the modules in the adventure path. All eight of which are listed here: http://www.amazon.com/The-D-D-Adventure-Path-Series/lm/39CTXE22HRB6H

    Although you have woven them very well, the modules certainly have much more to compare. My questions are, how well to the ones you have cited fit in to the Southern Lorridges overall? Are there consistent maps, etc.? How do the other modules in the AP fit with the use of the ones you used for the Southern Lorrideges? That is, if they are not located there, is there are good reason for jumping around and ideas for where they would be. Do they sync with GH history?

    Thanks for the good work.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
    Posts: 201
    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:00 pm  
    Re: The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges ...

    Wolfsire wrote:
    My questions are, how well to the ones you have cited fit in to the Southern Lorridges overall? Are there consistent maps, etc.? How do the other modules in the AP fit with the use of the ones you used for the Southern Lorrideges? That is, if they are not located there, is there are good reason for jumping around and ideas for where they would be. Do they sync with GH history?

    Thanks for the good work.


    Thanks for your feedback, Wolfsire, I'm glad you enjoyed the article. This being my first contribution to Canonfire!, I am especially grateful for the constructive suggestions any and all have to offer concerning my submission.

    In response to your questions:

    While the modules refer to temples dedicated to GH gods, their respective histories and content otherwise are completely generic. The extent to which they sync or do not sync with GH history is, of course, up to each individual DM to decide. The modules are primarily site-based, their historical background minimal. To my knowledge, I changed very little of the history contained either in the modules or in GH canon to write this article--rather, I did what I could to establish connections between "open ends."

    Aside from providing a sequence of adventures that is supposed to take PCs from levels 1-20, most of the scenarios in the WotC AP are only loosely connected to one another. The Cult of Ashardalon features in the background to the following modules:

    . The Sunless Citadel
    . The Standing Stone
    . The Heart of Nightfang Spire
    . Bastion of Broken Souls


    To my knowledge, the other four adventures (The Forge of Fury; The Speaker in Dreams; Deep Horizon; Lord of the Iron Fortress) have no connection, content-wise, to the four mentioned previously (likely exception: it is implied that the Lord of the Iron Fortress is one of Ashardalon's progeny, as he is half duergar, half red dragon... if you like those kinds of crosses in your game). The latter four modules seem to have been created to act as filler, or side treks, to the main AP, and even the connections between the scenarios in the main AP are not particularly strong (i.e., the DM has to provide the continuity between them). That being the case, I do not intend to run all of the AP modules as one campaign. If I have missed a connection between some of the modules, then I would be grateful if someone else would point out the connections that I have overlooked.

    Where geography is concerned, The Sunless Citadel is the only module that I would place in the Southern Lorridges proper. The overland map provided in The Sunless Citadel of the hills surrounding the town of Oakhurst and the citadel is very small, vague, and does not even feature a scale... which makes it easily adaptable to virtually any hilly locale in the Flanaess (the southern Lorridges simply suited my campaign purposes best). Interestingly, the overland map in The Sunless Citadel shows a geographical feature called the "Ashen Plain," which coincides well with "the waste" found in the hills to the east of Brookhollow in the Dungeon adventure "Evil Unearthed."

    In note 9, I suggested that Nightfang Spire could be located nearby, in the northwest spur of the Lortmils. IMC, I will place the Forge of Fury (which consists of a dungeon crawl in an abandoned dwarven hall overrun by monsters) a bit further south in the Lortmils, perhaps one or two hexes away from the Gran March's eastern border. Given that a dragon is featured in the latter adventure, a DM could without too much effort find a way to establish connections between the background of the Forge of Fury and that of the Sunless Citadel.

    The Speaker in Dreams takes place in a riverside town. I don't think this story fits particularly well with the rest of the AP. Brindinford could be a stand-in for Shiboleth (amongst other things, the town's location on the river would need to be shifted), with a great deal of work, but... let's just say that as written, I don't think Brindinford (or the adventure background) fit particularly well with the GM.

    The Standing Stone is set in a heavily forested area that would be the equivalent of less than one hex (Darlene map) in size. The thorp of Ossington is very isolated, and the region has a druidic heritage, as well as an odd chapel dedicated to the nine "generic GH" gods who have a neutral component to their alignment. You might want to change the grugach in the module to sylvan elves, but aside from that, the module can be easily located in the eastern part of the Dim Forest without generating any canon conflicts.

    Deep Horizon takes place in the underdark. The Sunless Citadel cutaway map shows underground passages going beyond the locations described in the module, and theoretically could link up to the underdark (which, in turn, could justify the presence of a mind flayer in Shiboleth, if one wanted to set The Speaker in Dreams in the Gran March). I have not yet decided if I want to see that underdark connection IMC.

    Both Lord of the Iron Fortress and Bastion of Broken Souls are set in planar locales.

    Bottom line: with minor exceptions (mostly involving The Speaker in Dreams), neither the geography or the historical background of the modules in the WotC AP conflict significantly with GH canon, especially if set in and around the Gran March... and without too much effort, you could run an entire campaign in and around the GM, with the finale taking the PCs to Acheron and the Positive Energy Plane.

    Thanks again for your comments/questions!
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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    Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:19 am  
    Re: The Forgotten History of the Southern Lorridges ...

    TwiceBorn wrote:
    Thanks again for your comments/questions!


    You are welcome! Thank you for the article and the feedback. And congradulations on publication of your first submission.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1846
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:19 pm  

    Really well done, Twiceborn! Very nice adaptation of these generic modules into Greyhawk as well as your original historical material. Nicely cited and footnoted too.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 12, 2001
    Posts: 188
    From: Hanover Park

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    Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:00 pm  
    Hmm...

    >You, judicious reader, must decide… but remember that many lives have been lost gathering, transcribing, and diffusing this lore over the ages, as certain parties would prefer to see all references to the personages found in this work utterly eradicated from the memories of both the living and the dead.<

    Perhaps a subtle reference to the Bush Administration and the EPA library closings?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
    Posts: 201
    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:41 am  
    Re: Hmm...

    Scottenkainen wrote:
    >You, judicious reader, must decide… but remember that many lives have been lost gathering, transcribing, and diffusing this lore over the ages, as certain parties would prefer to see all references to the personages found in this work utterly eradicated from the memories of both the living and the dead.<

    Perhaps a subtle reference to the Bush Administration and the EPA library closings?


    Heh... not consciously, no... My mind was strictly in WoG when I wrote the article.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
    Posts: 201
    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:08 am  

    For those who care about such things, I had sent a revised version to the administrators , but the original (uncorrected) version of the article is the one that appeared on the website.

    Here is a list of the (minor) corrections I had submitted:

    a) The Mara Kingdom of Burgred and the People of Ashardalon (paragraph 2): change the reference to Pandora's box to Ralishaz's sack.

    b) Footnote 10: the issue of Dungeon in which "Evil Unearthed" was published is #82.

    c) The Vecnate Invasion and the Death of the Mara King, Welnarek IV (paragraph 4): change the passage indicating that King Welnarek perished under Kas's blade to:

    "King Welnarek IV, who had thus far resisted repeated magical assaults by the Whispered One thanks to the legendary powers of his crown, perished under the blade of a bestial creature pieced together from the bodies of many slain Mara and Ddraigasa, as the Lich Lord looked on."

    Source: Bruce R. Cordell and Steve Miller, Die! Vecna! Die! (Wizards of the Coast: 2000), p. 96.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
    Posts: 201
    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:14 am  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Really well done, Twiceborn! Very nice adaptation of these generic modules into Greyhawk as well as your original historical material. Nicely cited and footnoted too.


    Thanks, Smillan!
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 12, 2001
    Posts: 188
    From: Hanover Park

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    Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:28 am  
    Nice save

    Hi again,

    I still haven't had time to finish the whole article, but what I read here about changing "Pandora's Box" to "Ralishaz's Sack" was a nice save, turning real world myth into new Greyhawk content!

    ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

    Yak-Men ask Ralishaz what he's got in his pockets...
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 1212


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    Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:07 am  

    Ya now, I though I read somewhere else a reference to Pandora's box in GH. It gave me a double take when I read the article. If it every gets put up, you can read about how I saved GH from Demeter in my next article.
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