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The non-GH 4e thread!
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mortellan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once the game has slipped from the printed and table top arena can it really still be considered part of the line of editions? By then it'll be like some unholy merger of corporations like you see in business with media or telecoms. Hasbro buys Blizzard which takes over Wizard's RPG division and we get The World of Dungeons and Dragon Warcraft.
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be too sure that it will be Hasbro that buys Blizzard. It could very well be the other way around(As Blizzard is making very good money). Of course, I see Blizzard buying a controlling interest in Games Workshop(as they like their games) before they would consider buying WotC from Hasbro.
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Ragr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I'm surprised that some of you guys think that the 4e combat example was a step down the power level from 3.5. I'm not disputing your point, but I can honestly say that in many years of playing I've never witnessed anything do 500 damage in one go. Maybe, and I'm sure some of my players would agree, I'm just stingy with the xp and don't let things reach that level.

I did once witness a summoned Badger kill an Ogre with a single attack (it was a quirky instant kill critical thang), but my group still talk about that many years later. And surely that's the point; memorable events do not need to be epic, just interesting and good fun.

I still find the example, incomplete as it was, to be a long way from the game I play, or indeed want to play. I agree that a couple of the things looked mildly interesting, but it all resembles a cartoon in vivid colours (not unlike most 3.5 artwork), with lots of bangs and crashes but ultimately a one dimensional experience. And where does the game go after such a power fest? How do you ramp it up for the next challenge.

I'd like to see an example of a few 1st level characters battling a bugbear before I form a final opinion but it still doesn't look good.
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 4th edition is marketed towards a younger crowd who like bigger is bigger is better mentality, do you really thing WOTC would downsize D&D to make it less power hungry. I say no! They will keep pushing the power play up and up while still trying to make a system that is functional. Do you really think level advancement will be slower, or that damage scored will be less, or HP will be downgraded?
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mortellan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to belabor the discussion but we don't know the relative hit points of that battle nor how long it had been going on. It could have taken several blows before the one that landed the dragon below 500hp. The intention of that whole combat blurb was to show how tough the dragon is not the PCs.

Anyhoo, I have seen high level-epic 3.5 games that are HP shattering, especially when you throw in meta-magic (Twinning spells seems popular at my table) and chains of martial feats (They did power-up Power Attack for some dumb reason). Will it be toned down, probably not like I hope. Eileen is right in that their target audience the younger, immediate gratification crowd, not us old school story based RP'ers. This is partly why I am leaning toward a new game system for my Greyhawk campaign.
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mortellan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion wrote:
Don't be too sure that it will be Hasbro that buys Blizzard. It could very well be the other way around(As Blizzard is making very good money). Of course, I see Blizzard buying a controlling interest in Games Workshop(as they like their games) before they would consider buying WotC from Hasbro.
I'll agree on the GW-Blizzard thing, their games were much alike. Hasbro though is a giant in the industry, if they want to get into MMO's they have the scratch to get anyone I'm sure. Blizzard could only buy Wizards away if Hasbro sold them. Then it would be like when Wizards bought TSR, it would change the game industry picture significantly.
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree we don't know the details of the battle. I posted it to give anyone who hadn't seen it a view. I tried to keep my doubts to myself (probably didn't succeed real well) because I haven't been supportive of the 4th edition idea. Sure I knew it was coming, that I understand. It's the fact that more and more I question if WOTC knows what roleplaying is (or at least was) about in the early 80's. I figure I have given them my dollars. If they choose to no longer support the products I purchased then I must make a choice, to continue with them, or not to continue with them. WOTC has disappointed me more times than pleased me, so the answer is simple for me. They lost a customer.

I'll continue Greyhawk with 3.5, as well as check out other roleplaying interests I have mentioned. It isn't a right or wrong thing, it just my decision.

Maybe the game will be superior mechanically. Maybe it will bring things back to roleplaying, maybe it will be nothing more than power play. Either way I gave them the money I could in order to support a hobby I love. Now its time to get my money's worth out of all of these books rather than continue.
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MerricB
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The combat was on the fifth or sixth round. Several of the designers of 4e have posted - check James Wyatt's blog for an example of this - saying that there's no way that the fighter would do 500 damage in one blow. (I think Mike Mearls posted that if the fighter did that much damage, it'd be ambushed and killed by the D&D Development team...)

Cheers!
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Le Noir Faineant
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faith, people! I have not ventured to much into the few tidbits that are known about 4e so far, because I personally doubt that I will ever play that game, with all the oldschool stuff floating around in my bookshelves.

Now, all I say is that if Arduin, Tekumel and Wilderlands still have devote followers, I personally am pretty sure that Greyhawk, with all the people interested in it right now, will surely remain popular. Smile
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