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    Canonfire :: View topic - Maldin, Mordenkainen, and Secrets of the Circle of Eight
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Maldin, Mordenkainen, and Secrets of the Circle of Eight
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 170
    From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left

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    Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:58 pm  
    Maldin, Mordenkainen, and Secrets of the Circle of Eight

    I’m proud to be celebrating the 10th anniversary of my website, Maldin’s Greyhawk. I can’t believe its been a decade since I first launched it. To commemorate this event, I’ve posted a very special webpage, the topic of which I’ve been holding off publishing for over 3 years on a promise that I’d wait until after certain plotlines for (and turns out all of) Living Greyhawk had run its course.

    Finally, the Secrets of Mordenkainen and the Circle of Eight are revealed, as is the truth behind Rary’s treachery, and a few other fascinating tidbits. If you are a player, do not read this page! (Ok, that probably applies to much of my website)

    Many thanks to mortellan for the special graphic on my main page.

    Denis, aka “Maldin”
    Maldin’s Greyhawk http://melkot.com
    Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness… mysteries, maps, magic, mechanics, and more! **Celebrating 10 years!**
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:44 am  

    i have no words enough to thank you, maldin!

    great work, congratulations!
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2782
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:07 pm  

    Maldin! Hail and well met! Happy

    I arrived at Canonfire! via Maldin's Greyhawk, by the way. Cool

    Very interesting thesis! And apparently based upon Canon. Better and better. I can definitely see many a hook hidden within. Wink

    Mordenkainen has always been a character dwelling in the periphery of my WoG, nothing more, and for two reasons:

    1. As the most powerful magician of Canon, any player created and played by the rest of us can never supplant him, nor can any of us attain the position of Demi-Urge as long as he and Rary are "around." Mad So I don't really need either of them in my game.

    2. "We" stand opposed. Shocked I enjoy having a Sorcerer as my main character, but, at best, he is Neutral Good, sometimes Chaotic Good. But he is never completely Neutral. Smile Yes, I know that its the theme of many a book, but its my own personality as well. Its the position I would take if I really lived in Greyhawk. Happy

    My Sorcerer is always opposed to Tharizdun, but he's not interested in "maintaining the balance" between Good and Evil. Mad He fights so that Good will conquer Evil. Happy

    Just my thoughts. Happy
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 563
    From: brazil

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:42 pm  

    my players dont even know who he is Laughing

    maybe just for the spell's name
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 923
    From: Computer Desk

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:50 pm  

    Congrats Maldin on 10 Exclamation

    I have enjoyed your site and your insight which has helped explore the rich tapestry that is Greyhawk.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2782
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:54 pm  

    Crag wrote:
    Congrats Maldin on 10 Exclamation

    I have enjoyed your site and your insight which has helped explore the rich tapestry that is Greyhawk.


    Crag! Hail and well met! Happy

    As poetic as always. Cool Well said. Happy
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    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 07, 2004
    Posts: 1844
    From: Mt. Smolderac

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:36 pm  

    Yeah! Mazal tov on the 10th anniversary, Maldin! I look forward to digesting the article.
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
    Posts: 2586
    From: Ullinois

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:33 pm  

    Excellent longevity Maldin, just if we could bottle that...in say Potions of Longevity? Good article, your hard work has paid off.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left

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    Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:52 pm  

    Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the support and encouragement over the years.

    I fully admit to heavily stealing from Mona and Holian's excellent "Wheels within Wheels" LGJ 0 article for the first half of this article, and thats what really sets the tone. Their wonderful article may not be readily accessible to newer DM's, and I felt that it was important to have that information available to people on the net (and Googleable).

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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    From: France

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    Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:44 am  

    *SPOILER*










    Hey, Maldin, I've just finished to read your Mordenkainen article. It is great - as usual I'd like to add. Your site is one of my best favorites. Congrats for the 10th anniversary!

    So, if I may ask you just one question: as "Demi-Urge" and "Demogorgon" are names that share the same etimology, which comes from the ancient greek meaning "Maker God", could it be, according to you, that there is a link between the two entites in Greyhawk? I mean was Demogogon a Demi-urge at a time? is he a fallen Demi-Urge ? or did he just mess around and take this public name to mistake our feeble mortal mind, as demons like to do, as usual, I'd like to add.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
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    From: Germany

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    Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:13 am  

    Maldin wrote:
    Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the support and encouragement over the years.

    I fully admit to heavily stealing from Mona and Holian's excellent "Wheels within Wheels" LGJ 0 article for the first half of this article, and thats what really sets the tone. Their wonderful article may not be readily accessible to newer DM's, and I felt that it was important to have that information available to people on the net (and Googleable).

    Denis, aka "Maldin"


    Not readily accessible? The Wheels within Wheels article is available for download at WotC site. Maybe you should include a link on your site?
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left

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    Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:39 pm  

    Many thanks, Galliskinmaufrius! I'm glad you enjoyed the article (and my website). Regarding your question, I've always considered the demi-urge position more as a guardianship of Oerth, of both its physical and arcane well-being (very different then the position of Grand Druid, guardian of nature). The very fact that it is a position that is handed down means that the Demi-Urge (a title) cannot be the "Maker God" in a literal sense. "Maker of stability" yes, certainly not any creator-figure.

    Demogorgon (a name) represents something outside of not only Oerth, but the entire Material Plane. His machinations extend far beyond any lowly single planet. Certainly he cannot be compared to the Demi-Urge. "Maker of Demons"perhaps, but certainly not maker of Oerth, or even anything significant on Oerth. Any similarity in the origin of the words is pure coincidence.

    Thanael, many thanks for the link! I know as a print publication, it is no longer available, but I didn't know it was up on the website as a (legal) pdf. I'll certainly add it to the webpage, as a big chunk of that article describes the details of the individual members of the Circle of 8, something which I do not get into at all in my article.

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com **Celebrating 10 Years!**
    Edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, magic, mysteries, mechanics and more!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 01, 2004
    Posts: 104
    From: France

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    Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:24 pm  

    Oh, I see, this is coincidence.

    Do you envision the Demi-Urge in game terms? I mean: are you working on rules in order to play the Demi-Urge for a PC or NPC?

    Would it be a "prestige class", or - speaking for 1st Ed. AD&D - something like the hierophant druid class? Will the Demi-Urge cast tenth level spells?

    By the way, have you read my post about your GUT? I'd like to know if you find it to you taste...
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 12
    From: Bologna, Italy

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    Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:18 am  

    Hi to all from Italy.
    I'm a new subscriber, here.... but i still have to find a specific section to present myself, so these two lines are required, i think.

    Maldin:
    i've read your "mapping tutorial" with great interest.
    It happens that i'm born and live in Bologna, the same town you took as example for a medieval town. Sure, you have picked all the "good point" about how my town is born.
    I just want to give you some more "points" that can bring some more ideas for fantasy town designing, and shows how a medieval town born on flat surface (Bologna is really flat, not like Siena) solved some security issues.

    In the center of your image you can see 2 towers. They are 2 watchtowers. Nothing fancy as some fortified,sturdy towera you can see in other towns. They was just built to look far on the "Via Emilia" (a straigth route built by romans that travels Italy from east to west), and so built as high they can.

    Also, in your Bologna image you can notice that a lot of buildings have a "square hole" in the center. They was all "inner gardens": some of them was so beatiful that the city has bought them as tiny parks for kids. Most of them are now just places for inhabitants cars :( .

    Last: Bologna is surrounded by 2 rivers, the Reno (same name of the big one in europe, but is another river :) ) and the Savena.
    To build a fast transport route a ship canal was built between 2 "turns" of the Reno. It was still partially navigable until WWII.

    Now i'm not an History expert, but this facts are real and more or less accurates, and i think that similar things can give some "ancient/living flavor" to our fantasy town.

    Many compliments for your site!
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 170
    From: Second Primordial Ooze on the Left

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    Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:48 pm  

    Wow! No I hadn't seen your GUT post, Galliskinmaufrius! I very rarely wander away from this main forum, unfortunately. I'll have a read and properly respond to it for sure, as well as to you and Parduz here when I get a chance. Things have been crazy.

    Denis, aka "Maldin"
    Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
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