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    Weather in the Mounds of Dawn
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
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    From: Modena, Italy

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:59 am  
    Weather in the Mounds of Dawn

    I am still playing the Seeds of Sehan campaign arc which is set in the Perrenalnds. I always thought the Perrenalds to be shaped after Switzerland, so my best take was for the climate there to be "subalpine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subalpine), Exag in particular is set in a valley in a hilly region at the feet of the Yatils.
    However from the illustrations of the adventure, it seems as if the designer had in mind a vaguely middle-eastern climate, with its inhabitants dressed in long, fresh tunics similar to those used in the middle east or Afghanistan. My take is that if you go dressed like that in a subalpine region you're likely to freeze soon.
    Considering I am obsessed by canon :) I was wondering if we can consider Exag to be in a semi-magical microclimate, where the weather is similar to the Baklunish coast, or I should correct and redesign the exag citizens dress to a "cold" version of the one used in the middle east.
    I am probably addressing a stupid question since I guess there are freezing places even up in the mountains in Arabia etc. but I just liked to discuss about it a bit.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
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    From: Modena, Italy

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:06 am  

    Ok this could be an idea:

    "Situated high in the Hindu Kush and Koh e Baba mountains, the Hazarajat plateau has extremely cold and harsh climate dominated by heavy snowfalls, snow storms and short, hot summers. Winters span to over 6 months before snow melts. Like most of Afghanistan, Hazarajat also lacks greenery and is poorly covered with vegetation, there is no forest in the region and the slopes are bare."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazarajat

    I just need to see how people used to dress like in this part of the world 1000 years ago. Ehm.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
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    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:52 am  

    Exag is at 45 N latitude. Using the weather tables in the Glossography, this would be the BTB temperature spread:
    Code:
    Fireseek Readying  Coldeven  Planting  Flocktime  Wealsun
     232F   1034F   1844F   3058F    3769F   4977F

    Reaping  Goodmonth Harvester Patchwall Ready'reat Sunsebb
    5577F   5375F   4472F   3262F    2252F    336F
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Neck Deep in the Viscounty of Verbobonc

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:55 am  

    I definitely view Perrenland as being more Middle-Eastern than Swiss, especially given its proximity to the Baklunish lands.

    But concerning the weather, there's really no reason you couldn't have much warmer climes in the lower elevations. It could be that geothermal energy produces higher temperatures in the valleys. It could also be that Exag's unusual nature creates warmer-than-natural temperatures in the vicinity of that city.

    Concerning the clothing in Dungeon's illustrations, perhaps if you think of it as thick wool instead of thin linen or cotton it will help. We know from archaeology that ancient Middle-Easterners were able to fashion these fibers into cloth as fine as silk or as thick and tough as canvas. Those in Exag may well be able to produce finely woven woolen or cashmere garments that are more than adequate for the snow. Or maybe those pictures were "taken" in the heat of summer. Or something. Then again, perhaps the illustrator just didn't think of how cold you can get with only a thin sheet of silk between you and the glaciers. Wink
    GreySage

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:59 pm  

    Grand Junction, CO, has been collecting a large population of retired people because of their climate. Surprised

    Grand Junction sits at about 4500 feet, but is in a very large valley, surrounded by much higher mountains. The city is collecting so many retired persons because of one fact:

    Grand Junction is second only to San Fransisco for constant year-round temperture. It rarely freezes, snow never sticks for too long and summer is around 85 degrees -- most days. Happy

    Lived there since High School, recently moved. Cool

    Perhaps a similar situation exists in Exag? Confused
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:36 pm  

    And you also have the big lake there to moderate temperatures as well.
    GreySage

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:09 pm  

    Vulcan wrote:
    And you also have the big lake there to moderate temperatures as well.


    Actually, you're thinking of the large lake to the north and west of Salt Lake City, UT, which is approximately 295 miles to the northwest of Grand Junction, CO. The Great Salt Lake -- it's proper name -- has no direct effect upon the weather of the Grand Junction, CO area. Evil Grin

    Grand Junction sits in the, appropriately named, Grand Valley. The range of mountains to the north and northwest of the Grand Valley, known as the Bookcliffs -- they look like the bindings of books stood on end -- prevent any weather from entering the Grand Valley from the north, or northwest. Sad

    Some of Grand Junction's inclement weather comes from the south, but most of it comes from the southwest, up and over the Uncompahgre' Plateau (more mountains). The part of the Uncompahgre' that immediately borders on the Grand Valley -- to the south -- makes up a portion of the Colorado National Monument. Happy

    I provided this information as an explanation for the weather in Exag. Volcanic activity plays no part in Grand Junction's weather and neither does any "large lake." The mountains, themselves, provide the protection. They stay covered in snow throughout the winter, but, no snow "sticks" in the Grand Valley itself. Razz

    The Grand Mesa guards the eastern end of the Grand Valley. Its the largest flat top mountain in all the world. The Grand Mesa stands well over 11,000 feet high and has space at the top for the City of Greyhawk, itself; no kidding. Shocked

    Needless to say, no weather approaches the Grand Valley from that direction, either. Laughing

    Incidentally, an interesting fact is that the state of Colorado has over 1,000 mountains that stand over 10,000 feet high -- in case you were wondering about the mountain ranges of Oerth. Wink

    So, since such weather moderate areas obviously exist in our real world mountains, they could/should easily exist in Perrenland, as well as other mountainous areas of the Flanaess. Cool
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
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    From: Cauldron

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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:12 pm  

    I think Vulcan was referring to Lake Quag, not the Salt Lake.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:15 pm  

    polipone wrote:
    I think Vulcan was referring to Lake Quag, not the Salt Lake.


    Well, that's what I get for overlooking the obvious! Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Apologies all around. My brain was temporarily locked on the real world -- which should be the fantasy! Evil Grin
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:43 pm  

    To be fair, I didn't specify one way or the other, but yes, I meant Lake Quag.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:04 am  

    I think all of the various theories are interesting. Anyway I still have not very clear the weather patterns in the northern ocean/land of black ice/baklunish lands etc. That sector of the Flanaess seems to have deserts and glacers, mountains and prairies all in a few hundred kilometers...
    Someone has ever sketched a climate map like this one (http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/rmp/demo/local-resources/images/climate_prism_map.gif) for Greyhawk?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:47 am  

    I think all of the various theories are interesting. Anyway I still have not very clear the weather patterns in the northern ocean/land of black ice/baklunish lands etc. That sector of the Flanaess seems to have deserts and glacers, mountains and prairies all in a few hundred kilometers...
    Someone has ever sketched a climate map like this one (http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/rmp/demo/local-resources/images/climate_prism_map.gif) for Greyhawk?
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:52 am  

    MToscan wrote:
    Someone has ever sketched a climate map like this one (http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/rmp/demo/local-resources/images/climate_prism_map.gif) for Greyhawk?


    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:38 pm  

    DMPrata, excellent map! Thanks for that! Happy
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001
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    Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:06 pm  

    Excellent map. Two points. The Drawmidj is unnaturally warm; the subartic line should swing north in that area. It should also swing north (IMO) at the Thillronian penninsula, following the mountain line.

    Re: Perrenland - I think there are plenty of real-world examples of "cold" or colder areas with people who wear some kind of robes - Afghanistan, and the other 'stans, are one example. Also, even very cold areas can get very hot during the summer - it just doesn't stay hot for long. Whether an area is cold or hot has less to do with maximum or minimum range and more to do with the average.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:34 am  

    Wow great map indeed.
    So Exbir, Zeif etc are just "temperate" like greyhawk? I always pictured them as insanely hot like the middle-east.
    I too agree the climate lines should be way more awkward in the upper north-west, but that's a good starting point!
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:24 am  

    I am not sure I would rely so much on the art in dungeon magazine to determine the culture of the area.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:37 am  

    cwslyclgh wrote:
    I am not sure I would rely so much on the art in dungeon magazine to determine the culture of the area.


    You mean there aren't cute little gnome chicks with nose studs in Exag. Awww, man...

    Wink
    GreySage

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:36 am  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    cute little gnome chicks with nose studs


    Smillan . . . I worry about you sometimes. Laughing
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    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:18 am  

    Oh, you don't have to worry about Smillan. You can pretty much just assume he's lost it! Cool

    But at least he's a decent writer.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:51 pm  

    You know what they say, "once you go gnome you'll never..." Well, no one really says that. Back to my main point, being if she was a gnome, where is the pointy hat? AH-HA! Some so-called artist thinks they can present some tarted-up halfling as a gnome and get away with it? Not in my house!
    GreySage

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    Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:12 pm  

    Its now official . . . Smillan's "gone native." Evil Grin
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:34 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    You know what they say, "once you go gnome you'll never..." Well, no one really says that. Back to my main point, being if she was a gnome, where is the pointy hat? AH-HA! Some so-called artist thinks they can present some tarted-up halfling as a gnome and get away with it? Not in my house!


    "Tarted up halfling", eh?!?! That's my sister you @$%@#%!

    (*bubbagump adds Smillan to the list.*)
    GreySage

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    Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:51 pm  

    Remember Smillan, the blade is envenomed! Shocked

    Antidote, ole' son. Plenty of antidote! Evil Grin Laughing
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