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    Canonfire :: View topic - Open Heraldry Contest To Complete the Baklunish Basin
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    Open Heraldry Contest To Complete the Baklunish Basin
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:19 pm  
    Open Heraldry Contest To Complete the Baklunish Basin

    I have completed an extensive series of articles developing the Gulf of Ghayar region of the baklunish basin. I require someone to complete the national heraldry of the region before submission.

    The corsair island states heraldry has been completed by Saracenus but the gulf states themselves remain undone. So as Saracenus has decided to take a break nothing else to do but turn it into an open contest for all you egomaniacs out there (and you are out there Wink ).

    Submit your designs and expand the frontiers of GH.

    Gulf of Ghayar Map
    http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=mymw32mgyym&thumb=4

    These were the broad heraldric outlines but I am open to other design possibilities so feel free to experiment or take the suggestions below and run with it.

    Heraldic Shields:

    The Imperial Caliphate of Istustan: The shield is divided Per Pale. The shield is pale yellow dexter, deep Vert sinister, and is emblazoned with an Argent spear tip (point up).

    The Komal Matriarchy: The shield is Escutcheon. The shield is deep Azure and is emblazoned with an Argent Seashell.

    The Protectorate of Mur: The shield is divided Per Bend Sinister. The shield is zeifan design dexter and deep Azure sinister.

    The Sharifate of Risay: The shield is divided Per Fess. The shield is deep brown base, Gules chief, and is emblazoned with an Or hammer (point up).

    For those feelings ferocious and daring:
    Reich of Darak Urtag: The shield is Escutcheon. The shield is Sable and is emblazoned with Gules slashes

    Bakhoury Coast: The shield is Escutcheon. The shield is Gules and is emblazoned with an Or seahorse

    Although I would need to find someone to create the map of Darak Urtag which is a creative challenge beyond my meager artistic skills.

    Feel free to PM for further information

    Of course full credit will be given within the submitted articles for those designs selected Wink


    Last edited by Crag on Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
    Forum Moderator

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:03 pm  

    An excellent idea Crag! This is like an artistic postfest. I hope some creative people step up and help you on this. In fact if you don't mind Crag, as an added incentive to getting article credit, I will do one of my custom character drawings for anyone whose heraldry Crag chooses to use.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:19 pm  

    mortellan wrote:
    In fact if you don't mind, Crag, as an added incentive to getting article credit, I will do one of my custom character drawings for anyone whose heraldry Crag chooses to use.


    It's times like these when I wish I was a player instead of a DM. Blast that control-freak personality of mine!
    GreySage

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    Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:39 pm  

    mortellan wrote:
    I will do one of my custom character drawings for anyone whose heraldry Crag chooses to use.


    This is unfair and I protest! Evil

    Mort, you know good and well that I am "computer drafting illiterate" and cannot enter the contest! It just isn't right! Evil

    But I can't wait to see the comic! Evil Grin Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Oh, and uh . . . Razz

    Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:07 am  
    Sources for heraldry

    Crag -

    This is one of the greatest ideas that I have seen!! I really hope that this goes well and ou get some really good submissions for it! talk about great stuff!

    But, I do have a question ... I know you're writing an article on it, but I am curious as to what you're using for source material. I know there was a lot of Living Greyhawk material that came out in that area, and plenty of local triads come up with stuff for their regions. What I am really asking, is how much of the heraldry did you make up on your own, and how much of it comes from other sources (either canon, fanon, or otherwise)?

    I think that I will likely use ay and all of it (because I can't imagine you contradicting canon at all) and I think that I will be happy with it, just I tend to like to know how much of what I am using is in the book, and what isn't.

    So, can I get a little teaser as to what's included? [/begging]
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:37 am  

    Good initiative Crag!

    To spark the creative juices I have put together an proposal:



    JPG
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Ghayar%20heraldry.jpg

    PDF
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Ghayar%20heraldry.pdf
    Site Theocrat

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:23 am  
    For Those of Us About to Not Draw....

    Hi all -
    My friend the Mystic-Scholar, I feel your pain. I can barely draw a stick figure and wonder if my 9th Grade art teacher ever found out that I had that hot 10th Grade girl draw that dragon (at least the outline so that I could trace over it and color it in).
    But for us Heraldry impaired.....http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/?p=14
    I have had this for a while and have used it a few times to help get concepts and ideas out to pass along to Bryan (Saracenus).

    Also I want to say that with the Bald Flying Rat in Sweden (Icarus) and Anna doing a "creative juices" artwork - we don't want to hear about your vacations. Although, I would love to see if you can get some more footage of the Techno Viking (technoviking.tv) - I love Techno so if you see him or others meandering the streets, please capture footage (or other Rave footage).
    Be Well. Be Well "Juiced."
    Theocrat Issak
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    GreySage

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:27 pm  
    Re: For Those of Us About to Not Draw....

    TheocratIssak wrote:
    My friend the Mystic-Scholar, I feel your pain.
    But for us Heraldry impaired.....http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/?p=14 Theocrat Issak


    Thanks, Issak, but the link didn't come through. Will have to try typing it in. Wink
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    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:31 pm  

    Thanks for the support and encouragement Smile

    I would request the designs be submitted individually and Pm me your email if you wish to see the corsair heraldry of Saracenus.

    Icarus: I have used all sources available and have expanded on the information but I have tried to maintain the similar tone and used some creative but logical exposition to hopefully weave the canon elements into a coherent content. I leave it to the readers as to my ultimate success in the endeavor.

    Most of the heraldry is mine although some hints for some nations exist such as the flashing deep blue of Komal and in another context the seashell of komal. Although even for komal the exact configuration is unclear but most of the others are invented although certain "cultural" trends are used. Istustan is a union of the desert tribes and coastal forest. Mur was once a western colony of zeif across the gulf. Risay is mine with the hill tribes and the mining culture. Darak Urtag is a simple representation of primal terror.

    The articles are a series of gazeteers and some organizations to encourage play within the area. However these articles are the mere appetizer for the main course. I have created a ItU style manuscript for the Celestial Imperium. The manuscript is too large to post on Canonfire (150+ pages) but Bubbagump is editing it now. Bubbagump can speak for himself as to his opinion of the work but so far his comments have been positive.

    Of course I have used the OJ continential map but for a more detailed map and heraldry artist will be needed to complete the manuscript. Given the excitement of the contest perhaps an interested artist can be found for the more extensive celestial imperium manuscript. I have received encouragement from the "Beyond the Flanaess" project of the OJ Journal perhaps the finished manuscript will warrant there attention.

    If anyone is interested plz PM so we can exchange email addresses.


    Last edited by Crag on Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:54 pm  

    I am indeed editing the Celestial Empire article (or should I say "book?"), and I have to say it's good stuff. I'm currently in the early stages of the process at the moment, focusing primarily on grammar and readability issues. Once that's done I'll move on to organizational issues and try to add a little "polish" to the piece.

    You guys are gonna love this!

    Crag - I hope you can find an artist worthy of the Celestial Empire. This manuscript just begs to be illustrated. I tried to chat up Icarus about it the other night but got called away by a client.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:58 pm  

    One suggestion: when asking for heraldry, visit a heraldry site so you can see how to describe things properly(such as that heraldry is always described from the perspective of a person holding the shield in front of them and through the use of specific heraldic language).

    Here's one of them:

    Caliphate of Istustan
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:06 am  

    I will visit the heraldric sites and properly edit the original post. No doubt I will soon become fluent in the heraldric language to complete the western empire.

    Thanks for the advice and submission Wink

    PS: Care to share the heraldric website where you found it.

    PPS: I just noticed the colours in your submission are reversed Surprised
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:06 am  

    Exactly, but under the heraldic rules my art is correct, based on your description(all I need do is flip the image though). Wink

    As to where I get my info, I've got me one of them thar book things full of pictures an other learnin. Happy

    Here you go though:

    http://www.houghtonkeep.com/heraldry/tincture.html

    This page is not bad at all, though there are a few things it could cover better with examples, *and there is one outright mistake*. The mistake is where the shield is described as if from the perspective of the person holding it. The left side of the shield will be on the bearer's right side, and that side is the dexter side. The right side of shield will therefor be on the bearer's left side, and that is the sinister side. The dexter side is superior to the sinister side, so in descriptions of colors the dexter side is listed first. One way to remember it is to think about the honor of placement at a table- the king is at the head, the next position of prominence is at his right hand, the next at his left hand. Or you could remember it as angel on the right shoulder(dexter); devil on the left shoulder(sinister) The devil bit is the key to the last one of course. Wink

    You should take special note of the field divisions and how to describe the position of the colors. By that I don't mean referring to the colors by their heraldic names(such as azure, or, vert, etc.) but to explain which divisions of the field are what colors. For instance, on the original shield I posted you could describe it as "The shield is divided per pale. The shield is pale yellow dexter, deep green sinister, and is emblazoned with a silver spear tip(point up).

    If I have it right(hopefully so), you would refer to the shield in heraldic terms as follows:

    "A field or and vert per pale; a spear tip upright argent.

    Note that the color or is mentioned first, meaning that, per pale, the yellow is on the dexter side, the green on the sinister side.

    Check the image above now(it is a bit rough by the way). I already had the spear tip done for Stoink's heraldry so this one was a quick job.
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    GreySage

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    Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:18 am  

    Man, we DESPARATELY need an emoticon for DROOLING! Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Alright all you computer literate people, let's get moving on this! Evil Grin Razz Laughing

    I have no idea how to "describe" my family's -- real life -- coat of arms. Love the link, by the way. I've added it to my favorites. I WILL learn this! Cool

    Thanks Ceb! Happy
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    Site Theocrat

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    Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:43 am  
    Hosting Yer Hugeness?

    Hi all -
    Crag, all these maps (which are on GHO/maps already) and these upcoming heraldric devices and not to mention the hugeness of this sourcebook, can I host it on GreyhawkOnline.com? I mean that's exactly what it is for.
    Will you need some sort of "site" for it to be downloaded from, as well as for people to download the maps and the other extra goodies that you have for it?
    I'm not saying that I'll design the site - heck, I had to have "friends" redo GHO main just to add the donate button, but any site and any resources I'd love to have hosted on GHO...and then maybe we could get someone to redo the front of GHO with new links and such (or maybe even that redesign to match-ish CF!?).
    Be Well. Be Well Goodied.
    Theocrat Issak
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:42 pm  

    Geez Ceb and here I thought it was complicated Confused

    Dexter on first; Sinister on second - who is on third Question

    Simplify one hurdle at a time; I understand the switch of the shield but to keep it simple sinister is right and dexter is left as I see it without the switch Question

    However when describing it I should switch the dexter and sinister Question

    No wonder there were so many madmen in the middle ages Evil

    I will try to pick this up but it might be simpler for you to translate Laughing

    TheocratIssak: Thanks so much for the offer I would be happy to post my efforts on GHO. However as the idea came from the OJ and Bubbagump has mentioned perhaps the OJ could do something with it perhaps even a special edition (fingers crossed). Given his editorial efforts on its behalf I would like to see it completed and the OJ staff weigh in on the issue before a final decision is reached.
    Site Theocrat

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    Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:58 pm  
    OJ is part of the GHO Family!

    Hey no problem, and of course, anything in the Oerth Journal is canonical anyway. Besides, I own the Oerth Journal site too .... so if it's in the OJ, then its on GHO. Just so sweet.
    Be Well. Be Well Psyched.
    Theocrat Issak
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:38 am  

    Hand held pics are not the best, so for the full book see here(can't beat a price of $2.50 or $5.00+ shipping(and maybe tax):

    http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9780713706475

    It is a very useful book, and very simple to understand.

    Another link with a list of meanings for various aspects of heraldry(yes, everything has a meaning, and heraldry is designed for reasons other than to just look cool Happy):

    http://www.americancollegeofheraldry.org/achsymbols.html







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    Last edited by Cebrion on Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:28 am; edited 2 times in total
    Master Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:59 pm  

    Thanks Ceb Wink

    Ok now that the heraldry lingo is taken care of.

    All you artists out there lets see those submissions Happy
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:56 pm  

    Another good site I like to use is - http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm. It's a pretty extensive glossary with lots of examples.
    GreySage

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    Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:52 am  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    Another good site . . . is - http://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm.


    Added it to my favorites list, thanks Smillan! Happy Cool
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:55 pm  

    I made good use of the link Smillan posted and came with these designs. Hope you like them.

    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/urudnd/image/CF/Gulf_of_Ghayar_Heraldry.bmp

    Saludos!
    Gabriel
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:30 pm  

    Not bad Carlanco. Cool

    Crag: is the Protectorate of Mur shield divided per bend, or divided per bend sinister?
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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:15 am  

    So by the pages Cebrion provided, I take it to mean that the symbol of the Iron League is a fret. What corollating meaning does this have, and does it apply?
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    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:58 pm  

    Good Job carlanco Smile

    Thanks for the submissions.

    Ceb: bear with me I have beem speaking heraldric for only a few days but a Per Bend Sinister could be an interesting experiment (blue = gulf then zeif over the gulf). Must say I like it but either is acceptable Happy

    Consider it changed Ceb Wink

    Keep those submissions coming people

    As we have seemed to have ironed out most of the problems and introduced me to the addictive heraldric language - thanks a lot Ceb Confused


    Last edited by Crag on Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:42 am  

    Jeminnab wrote:
    So by the pages Cebrion provided, I take it to mean that the symbol of the Iron League is a fret. What corollating meaning does this have, and does it apply?


    All the sources I've seen support the idea that a fret symbolizes a fishing net. How would this apply to the Iron League? The only thing I can come up with is that all of the founding members of the League were provinces with a considerable interest in the sea, and that there is the implication of a union in a net - multiple parts coming together to make something stronger. Somewhat similar in a way to a fasces or bundle of arrows, though less overtly aggressive.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:19 pm  

    Each member nation represents a single fret in the widening net of influence that the Iron League has. I've always seen the the Iron League as a merchant power and not a military power, but through their agreement they can bring a decent level of military power to bear so as to discourage aggressors(and they need to do so because of who their neighbors are: the Scarlet Brotherhood, the (former)Great Kingdom lands, the Sea Barons, etc.).
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