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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:19 am  
    Mord's Hair

    I was just wondering…
    In earliest products illustrations, Mordenkainen has long hair and beard.
    But in recent products illustrations, he’s bald with a goat.
    Is there any known reason to this baldness?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:23 am  
    Re: Mord's Hair

    Galliskinmaufrius wrote:
    I was just wondering…
    In earliest products illustrations, Mordenkainen has long hair and beard.
    But in recent products illustrations, he’s bald with a goat.
    Is there any known reason to this baldness?


    yeah.
    because of those damn kids!

    the same reason why elves got piercings, and some warriors have spiked armor sholders that should pierce their head in the first movement.


    oh, and the same reason theres a "emo" strahd von zarovich now
    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx1006ex2_100536.jpg
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:43 am  

    Is it really for this reason?
    Oh, geez, damn kids!
    GreySage

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:14 am  

    I think it was Sam Wood (one of the 3rd edition conceptual artists, who also worked on some of the late-1990s Greyhawk products) who decided that Mordenkainen's old hair style seemed too 1970s, and decided to give him a bald look instead.

    And yeah, he's responsible for the piercings that some 3rd edition characters have, too (though I think those are appropriate for those with significant Flan heritage), and partially responsible for the spiked armor (also blame Todd Lockwood), but Strahd's new look isn't his fault.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:42 am  

    OK, I'd liked, or wished, or hoped, that there was a story linked to this change of haircut. Something like... he made an oath, he lost a bet, or wielded some magic which made all his hair fall. Some cursed artefacts can make all your hair fall if you touch them...
    GreySage

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:43 am  

    Nothing so interesting. He just decided to change his look.

    Maybe it had something to do with the emotional changes he went through after Tenser came back to life and rejected him.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:11 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    I think it was Sam Wood (one of the 3rd edition conceptual artists, who also worked on some of the late-1990s Greyhawk products) who decided that Mordenkainen's old hair style seemed too 1970s, and decided to give him a bald look instead.

    And yeah, he's responsible for the piercings that some 3rd edition characters have, too (though I think those are appropriate for those with significant Flan heritage), and partially responsible for the spiked armor (also blame Todd Lockwood), but Strahd's new look isn't his fault.


    oh, i dont blame him for strahd haircut, but i blame those darn kids! Laughing
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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:14 am  

    I don't remember exactly where I read it; but in one of the books it said something like Mordy was begining to go bald, so he decided to just shave it off entirely. Nothing about the goatee look though....frankly I'm with those who are saying its just because it is/was the "in" look now.

    God, I hate that kinda crap....Mordy's is in his 80s-90s people, I really don't think he gives a flyin' fig for trendy styles Smile ...but whatever...

    I am curious about the comment that piercings would make sense for Flan.....Why? The Original Flan were based off of Native Americans/ Aborigines.....to my knowledge, these groups don't have any great history of piercings...but maybe I'm missing something?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:43 am  

    I think that he really just lost it all in a premature delayed blast fireball detonation. Embarassed Rather than admit he mistimed his spell he claimed it was intentional because he 'liked the look' and now he either needs to admit he was wrong or stick with the chrome dome... and he is NEVER wrong.
    GreySage

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:18 am  

    maxvale76 wrote:
    I am curious about the comment that piercings would make sense for Flan.....Why? The Original Flan were based off of Native Americans/ Aborigines.....to my knowledge, these groups don't have any great history of piercings...but maybe I'm missing something?


    The Flan are their own thing, and they look good with piercings.
    GreySage

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:41 am  

    maxvale76 wrote:
    The Original Flan were based off of Native Americans/ Aborigines.....to my knowledge, these groups don't have any great history of piercings...


    They don't, particularly. Confused

    Interestingly, something not often commented upon is the fact that several native american tribes were known to practice a limited form of cannibalism; the warriors were known to take a bite out of their enemies heart and eat it . . . raw, of course. Shocked Embarassed

    It supposedly instilled in them a portion of their enemy's courage. Wink

    (*Hmmm, I wonder if the Flan do that*) Shocked Evil Grin
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:16 am  

    Well to each thier own; but personally, other than earrings in women, I don't think piercings look good on anybody...but that's just me...

    As for the Flan eating thier enemies hearts....I could see the Rovers and certainly the Fists possibly doing that...
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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:56 am  

    If I recall correctly. the 'eating your enemy to gain his courage (or strength, or skill, or whatever)' was fairly common among many early cultures. It seems to be a holdover from the earliest cultures of mankind.
    GreySage

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:55 pm  

    Vulcan wrote:
    If I recall correctly. the 'eating your enemy to gain his courage (or strength, or skill, or whatever)' was fairly common among many early cultures.


    Too true, but I was responding to the fact that the Flan culture was influenced by native american tribes, not on the many other earthly cultures with this custom. Wink

    No particular culture was being singled out for reproach, or disrespect.
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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:05 pm  

    Nah.. he's obviously thinking of lichdom and he is using the hair as a phylactery! Razz
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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:28 pm  

    maxvale76 wrote:
    I don't remember exactly where I read it; but in one of the books it said something like Mordy was begining to go bald, so he decided to just shave it off entirely. Nothing about the goatee look though....frankly I'm with those who are saying its just because it is/was the "in" look now.

    God, I hate that kinda crap....Mordy's is in his 80s-90s people, I really don't think he gives a flyin' fig for trendy styles Smile ...but whatever...



    True enough, he's in his 80's or 90's but he's obviously kept himself youthful through magical means. That means a younger libido and it means that obviously he's out scamin on chicks down at ye olde drinkin hole every weekend. As much as you'd think that being a powerful wizard would be a chick magnet, more often then not its just something that's likely to be received as something creepy. Besides, someone like Mordy is going to be too proud to use magic to solve every problem he faces.

    As the wandering minstrels of ZZ Top pointed out, "Every girls crazy about a sharp dressed man."

    And before you point it out the fact that two of them have long beards as well, Mordys a Wizard, not Bard, they can get away with stuff that he can't.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:30 pm  

    I hate all that 3E art, bondage teifling, Hot Topic drow, spiked armor, piecing crap sooo much. I stopped subscribing to Dungeon somewhere around #80 but recently picked up some later period issues for the Greyhawk maps and other content. Flipping through the pages, I was ready for the rule changes and oversized, incomprehensible stat blocks. It was the hipster/emo wannabe fantasy art, however, that made me feel completely alienated from the magazine I grew up with and once loved.

    Anyway, to get on topic, Mordy's new look has no rhyme or reason. Some dumbass just decided to make him look like Anton LeVay.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:51 pm  

    I thought they were trying to make him look more like Sean (K. Reynolds)

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:55 pm  
    Haircuts and other forums.

    Well, you know it's interesting ... Mordenkainen's haircut came up in the Welcome to Greyhawk forums just the other day ...
    Cebrion wrote:
    Mordenkainen still has hair. He just shaves his head for some unknown reason. Question

    I blame Picard fans. Razz


    Yeah, well ... maybe he just thinks that a bald head, VanDyke beard and a moustache with with waxed curls was a really cool look! Yeah! And he doesn't care if his Mom doesn't like it, and you're not very nice for saying .... Shocked
    Embarassed Um, hang on a sec. N-nevermind. I just, um, was guessing ... and stuff. There's no personal issues here, at all. Wink

    Seriously though ... I think that Mordenkainen did look a little outdated, and I think that the change was likely made to make him look more mysterious and less "hermit-who-doesn't-care-about-appearance". There's a little Dr. Strange element in there, and if you've ever seen the cover by Greg staples on Living Greyhawk Journal No.9, there definately *is* a similarity to Anton LaVey (not that I am particularly fond of the guy. You know, Church of Satan, and all.) Nevertheless, they did just shave it off with no warning. I am trying to think of the first appearance of the bald look. I know that it took me awhile to realize it was supposed to be him on the cover of the LGG ... anyone else remember the first time they saw it?

    (and yes, I did change my profile photo back specially for this thread. Wink )
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    Last edited by Icarus on Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:59 pm  

    Great pics, boys!

    rasgon wrote:
    maxvale76 wrote:
    I am curious about the comment that piercings would make sense for Flan.....Why? The Original Flan were based off of Native Americans/ Aborigines.....to my knowledge, these groups don't have any great history of piercings...but maybe I'm missing something?


    The Flan are their own thing, and they look good with piercings.


    In order to make piercings, some metalsmith skills are needed. But I don't think Flan are good metalsmiths. Oerids are, but I think Flan would like feathers, bones, leather or shells to ornate themselves.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:02 pm  
    Re: Haircuts and other forums.

    Icarus wrote:
    I know that it took me awhile to realize it was supposed to be him on the cover of the LGG ... anyone else remember the first time they saw it?


    The same for me: I said to myself "Who is this guy?"

    BTW, your look is kool!
    GreySage

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    Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:48 am  

    Galliskinmaufrius wrote:
    In order to make piercings, some metalsmith skills are needed. But I don't think Flan are good metalsmiths. Oerids are, but I think Flan would like feathers, bones, leather or shells to ornate themselves.


    I think many of the Flan had a roughly Bronze Age culture (certainly Vecna's culture had metalsmithing, since they were wielding swords) until the Great Migrations, after which they learned Iron Age techniques from the Oeridians and Suel.

    (besides which, it's perfectly possible to make piercings out of wood and bone)

    I think it's a mistake to view the Flan as a whole as equivalent to native Americans, although the northern plains-dwellers may have been similar. Other Flan kingdoms like Sulm, Itar, Vecna's empire, Caerdiralor, Tostenhca, Ahlissa, the Isles of Woe, and Veralos seemed much more technologically sophisticated.
    GreySage

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    Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:02 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    I think it's a mistake to view the Flan as a whole as equivalent to native Americans, although the northern plains-dwellers may have been similar. Other Flan kingdoms like Sulm, Itar, Vecna's empire, Caerdiralor, Tostenhca, Ahlissa, the Isles of Woe, and Veralos seemed much more technologically sophisticated.


    Enter the North American plains tribes southern "cousins" . . . the Aztec, Inca and Maya! Who looked upon their northern "cousins" and immediately asked . . . "Who are these barbarians?" Evil Grin Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:14 am  

    Quote:
    Enter the North American plains tribes southern "cousins" . . . the Aztec, Inca and Maya! Who looked upon their northern "cousins" and immediately asked . . . "Who are these barbarians?"
    and the Inca at least were fairly advanced as far as metal smithing (given the metals available to them).
    GreySage

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    Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:25 am  

    Very true. Historians like to point out that the main difference between the northern and southern indians were the mountains. Meaning this . . . Confused

    The Iroquois League (the Six Nations) controlled a territory equal to, or greater than that of their southern cousins. From deep inside Canada all the way to Florida, from the Mississippi river to the Atlantic Ocean, all tribes paid tribute to them or suffered the consequences. But the Iroquois lived in a great forested area, not "rocky" mountains (I'm not referring to the mountain range of that name). Wink

    So, the Iroquois built out of wood, which does not endure, whereas the Inca, Aztec and Maya built out of stone . . . and, so, endures to this day. Happy
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