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    Canonfire :: View topic - Greyhawk Online is ***NOT*** Closing
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    Greyhawk Online is ***NOT*** Closing [ Previous  1, 2]
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 28, 2011
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    Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:14 am  
    Refurbishment

    This could be an opportunity to reorganize the content so it can be presented in a fresh way.

    The critical thing is the data - the actual files themselves - and that there are enough backups, etc.

    Given the economy and hosting options, can I suggest that the different sections of content perhaps be put up on free WordPress or Blogger blogs? I believe that Blogger allows for ten static pages.

    Thus, instead of one big 'website', perhaps dividing the content up into numerous 'departments', each with ten static pages, could be an opportunity to have a dedicated (and free) way to offer the downloads. The articles could be pasted into blog postings, etc. Turning a singular site into a network of blog entities offers a granularity of effort, so multiple people could perhaps donate small bits of time to help out. Migrating a large, monolithic website can be overwhelming.

    Blogs also utilize their own metrics, so after several weeks it might be good to see which files/articles are being accessed. Those that are not could perhaps be bundled together into a Zip file and re-hosted that way.
    Site Theocrat

    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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    Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:09 am  

    Hmm, I thought for sure I posted to this.
    GHO was always about being a collection of stuff that was randomly found on the internet. You know you right click on a picture, download a document and have no idea where it came from.
    As it is, GHO will be staying open - it will stay on its current server for the next month or so and then transfer to a new server location. I'm unsure of the bandwidth requirements for the OJ as its not had an active issue in some time. It's when a issue is out that the bandwidth is a hog.
    I appreciate all the help that many have offered. A new host will be found, whether that is with a company that hosts sites or something else.
    All options for hosting are being considered and if it is not a typical host but one that can offer what is needed for the GHO sites but generates feelings I will take that into consideration.
    As for a re-arrangement of GHO, I'm all for that. But I don't know what should be done in that arena. WYSIWYG.
    Issak
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:26 pm  

    Issak Thats great that another month will be granted however what you did alone is fine support GHO on your own funds. My offer for helping the site continue running still stands If several people are willing to help pay for hosting costs alone I don't see that as profiting. Profit means the funds would be used for anything but payment costs for hosting the site. Also no one is obligated to contribute its a donation no strings attached. My help is only on funds as I have no experience in hosting a site or even putting one together.

    I wish you and your family well.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Wichita, KS, USA

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    Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:20 pm  

    I just sent $25, which should give us time to sort through things (and if it's not needed, I'm sure Issak can put it to good use).

    I'm pretty sure that we'll be able to work out free hosting with Doug @ http://ntrpgcon.com/ and we'll keep everyone informed as things progress.
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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    Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:26 pm  

    I think that what it comes down to is that people are willing to pitch in. You just have to shake the tree every so often. I know I don't have a job right now and I have a 15 month old baby, but I for one appreciate all the work guys like Theocrat put in for us nerds and I'll gladly throw in some $$ to help out. These sites are invaluable resources for me time and time again in my games. Just let me know how I can help.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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    Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:48 pm  

    Mouse thats great but I would say your family comes first. When your back on your feet feel free to pitch in. I went through a ruff patch bsck in 2001 and then it took til 2003 for me to find something else. Lucky for me my kids are grown though still in my house my sons only 16 but his sister is 19 so their under my wing until they can fend for themselves. I'm doing ok right now so it doesn't hurt to help right now.

    Wish you and your family well.
    Site Theocrat

    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
    Posts: 235
    From: WoG 2.0

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    Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:42 pm  

    Greyhawk Online Will Stay Open
    I wanted to say thank you for your support.
    I've had GHO for several years. I've had some issues with keeping it open on occasion and even asked and received some help. Usually though, I get the typical caveats - you can't pay $20 a month for Web hosting and you need to move. For those, I've typically said I appreciate it but that's not something I want to do. The reason for not wishing to move from the servers is that the current host has me set up as a reseller. Which means that each of the domains that I have (5) are distinct from the others. When you go to GreyhawkOnline.com - that's where you go. When the 5 people in the world that have ever gone to SyberWerks.net - they go to SyberWerks.net. Each is managed separately and each are unique.
    This has worked for several reasons - and was one of the reasons I was able to have the space that I did 10G and 100G of bandwidth. Most important to me was the separation of each site.

    However, posting that I was closing down - I received some donations that I did not expect. I didn't expect Allan to post on Facebook, EN World and contact others that could help. I just didn't want to spend the money any more. But now that it's not my money, it's the Greyhawk communities money, I suppose I sorta have to keep the sites open. =:->
    While I've liked the control of keeping sites separate and having a reseller account, it doesn't seem as prudent or necessary as it once did. Thus, with the move to a new hosting company - there are about three that I've talked with and discussed my needs that fill the overall goal - the sites will be staying open. But if you go to ThePale.org a re-direct will send you to GreyhawkOnline.com. I suppose it's not that big of a deal. The OerthJournal.com will re-direct to GreyhawkOnline.com/OJ or something. I don't know the specifics of how that works just yet. Same for GolarionOnline.com - a redirect will go to GreyhawkOnline.com/Golarion.

    This means that the World of Greyhawk Comic will stay open and that url will remain the same (www.GreyhawkOnline.com/wogcomic). Allan's things will still be at their url's. It's things like the OJ's that'll have different URL's - if I'm to understand it correctly. The Maps collection will still be there. I'm unsure of how we handled uploading of new material - but it can be there. Same with all those other little things, like the Urudnd site, Abyss's folder and such.

    So give me another couple days to talk more indepth with the hosting companies - this also means that while Morrus at EN World and Doug at Texas Con offered hosting, GreyhawkOnline.com can remain independent. GreyhawkOnline has always been associated with CanonFire.com but seprate enough. This also means that The Thursday Group and the editors of Oerth Journal will still have the freedom they've always had. To write and keep Greyhawk as true to the ways as needed.
    This also means that Golarion can get some of the same treatment - if desired. But it does seem that with the Wayfinder (issue 4 is now out) and Paizo's own support - that site can be just behind the scenes at GreyhawkOnline.com/GolarionOnline.

    Again, I want to thank you - the community as a whole - for your support.
    I'll update this again before actual moving to the new host. Of course, this means that if you need or want Web space for your Greyhawk, Golarion and gaming Website needs - the sites will be there for you to use as before.
    Ardently Yours,
    Theocrat Issak
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:24 am  
    demands of site closure

    chatdemon wrote:
    Let's nip something in the bud right now. ... I would demand that ALL connections between GHO and CF be severed...

    chaoticprime wrote:
    I agree.

    Yes, let's nip something in the bud. There is no one, fan or otherwise, that has any right to demand anything of the owners and administrators of this site.

    We are all greatful for what they do for us, and those of us who are able will continue to take care of donations to hopefully give aid in keeping the site up. Where the donations and from whom is an anonymous fact that is between the site owner and the donator. If he chooses to accept, or not accept funds from any private individual, he has the right to do with it as he sees fit, and there is no other private individual who may gainsay that.

    An author may choose to not publish on this site or in these forums, but he does not have the right to demand anything of anyone else.

    This is my opinion ... not that of the administrators. Comments may be PM'd to me directly, rather than derailing the thread.

    Issak ... I do want to say thank you for the work that you're doing to keep this very venerable site on it's feet. Your diligence in wanting to do nothing more than keeping friends and fans happy is something that is worthy of truly being a paladin. I raise my sword and a glass in salute to you, sir. Good Form, sir. Good Form.
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    Last edited by Icarus on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:31 am  
    Re: demands of site closure

    Icarus wrote:
    chatdemon wrote:
    Let's nip something in the bud right now. ... I would demand that ALL connections between GHO and CF be severed...


    Yes, let's nip something in the bud. There is no one, fan or otherwise, that has any right to demand anything of the owners and administrators of this site.

    We are all greatful for what they do for us, and those of us who are able will continue to take care of donations to hopefully give aid in keeping the site up. Where the donations and from whom is an anonymous fact that is between the site owner and the donator. If he chooses to accept, or not accept funds from any private individual, he has the right to do with it as he sees fit, and there is no other private individual who may gainsay that.

    An author may choose to not publish on this site or in these forums, but he does not have the right to demand anything of anyone else.

    This is my opinion ... not that of the administrators. Comments may be PM'd to me directly, rather than derailing the thread.

    Issak ... I do want to say thank you for the work that you're doing to keep this very venerable site on it's feet. Your diligence in wanting to do nothing more than keeping friends and fans happy is something that is worthy of truly being a paladin. I raise my sword and a glass in salute to you, sir. Good Form, sir. Good Form.


    I second that, well said Icarus.

    I have only been here for a short while, posting that is, but I have been making use of articles and the forums from Canonfire and GHO for many years. Thanks for the hard work they you have done over the years for something that we all love. It is now time that the community gives back!
    Site Theocrat

    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:49 pm  

    Wonder if Cebrion wants to change the title of the thread.
    GreyhawkOnline.com, OerthJournal.com and ThePale.org are staying open.
    Thanks to the Greyhawk Community I've just made arrangements with a new hosting company for the GHO sites.
    It'll take me a day or so to move everything over - it was going to cost extra to keep the same type of program I've been using, and with cost being part of the whole issue, I felt more manual labor on my part was better than another $45.
    I've got to FTP everything and write down any ftp users and email accounts and re-set things up. Of course WOG Comic and Allan's sites will be the first ones restored, but if things are down for a week - don't stress it. I'll even see if I can get away with a few other special things I've had in my PDF box for a while that a few people have seen (but are likely stored in the archives of CanonFire).
    Again, thank you for your support. I do appreciate it and if there's something you think GreyhawkOnline.com should have and its within the bounds of what I can do - we can see about doing it (provided you manage it!).

    Theocrat Issak
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:19 pm  

    Huzzah!!! Happy
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:06 pm  

    Woo-hoo! Happy
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Cooke City, MT, USA

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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:45 pm  
    Re: demands of site closure

    Icarus wrote:
    chatdemon wrote:
    Let's nip something in the bud right now. ... I would demand that ALL connections between GHO and CF be severed...

    chaoticprime wrote:
    I agree.

    Yes, let's nip something in the bud. There is no one, fan or otherwise, that has any right to demand anything of the owners and administrators of this site.


    No, those of us who've done something for the site, like, I don't know, write the bulk of the material for the first four years? or how about performing admin duties for the better part of 8 years while others came and went? Anyway, I have every right to object to my work being used to generate someone else money, and if you believe that ENWorld exists for any reason but to generate money for its owner, you are seriously deluded.

    To partner with such a commercial site without the express consent of everyone who has ever contributed here would not only be morally wrong, it would be seriously legally actionable.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 01, 2007
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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:19 pm  
    Re: demands of site closure

    chatdemon wrote:
    ... you are seriously deluded...
    To partner with such a commercial site without the express consent of everyone who has ever contributed here would not only be morally wrong, it would be seriously legally actionable.


    Yeah ... well, not that you're being personally insulting or anything, but, I think that I can be more adult than to resort to trolling and flame wars.

    Beyond that, no, at the risk of reiterating myself - no one has that right. And the only recourse you have is to choose to not publish any future material there. I'm fairly certain that the information on Canonfire! reads that when published, CF retains the publishing rights to that single occurance of the material - although it has been well-proven that you will posture, pose and make threats to the website over whatever you believe your rights to be.

    There is not a single person that has the right to demand anything of the sort of Issak and the great bunch that run the site currently. If you've any issues about what you did "back in the day", you should have thought about that before no longer being a administrator of the site. I speak for no one other than myself when I say that I congratulate the current team on what they are doing nowadays, and that the site is as good or better than I have ever seen it in the past 3 1/2 years.

    You are, however, free to express whatever vociferous, belligerent, contrary, controversial, disputatious, litigious, pugnacious, quarrelsome, touchy opinions that you wish. But, demands are right out.
    _________________
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:33 pm  
    Re: demands of site closure

    Icarus wrote:
    Yeah ... well, not that you're being personally insulting or anything, but, I think that I can be more adult than to resort to trolling and flame wars.


    You want insulting? You've got it, ****.

    You made your debut here bitching and whining because someone criticized your girlfriend's work. Real **** mature.

    You bullied your way on to the 'staff' with tales of an art gallery that never managed to appear on the site.

    You stated, quite bluntly, more than once that your intent here was to pad your resume for real industry work.

    That personal enough for you? Since you admit to only having been around 3.5 years, pretty much after my tenure as sole administrator and primary contributor, and aren't privy to the facts behind why I stepped down, I kindly invite you to kiss my **** and find something better to whine about.

    Gary Holian owns this site, Issak helped fund its operation.

    Eric Obrien and I built it. Don't **** where you eat. If it weren't for Eric and I, you wouldn't have a CF to visit.
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    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:02 pm  
    Re: demands of site closure

    Icarus wrote:
    Yes, let's nip something in the bud. There is no one, fan or otherwise, that has any right to demand anything of the owners and administrators of this site.

    We are all greatful for what they do for us, and those of us who are able will continue to take care of donations to hopefully give aid in keeping the site up. Where the donations and from whom is an anonymous fact that is between the site owner and the donator. If he chooses to accept, or not accept funds from any private individual, he has the right to do with it as he sees fit, and there is no other private individual who may gainsay that.

    An author may choose to not publish on this site or in these forums, but he does not have the right to demand anything of anyone else.


    Well actually, you are completely wrong.

    There are quite a few contributors who have every right to demand many things of the owners administrators of this site.
    That is particularly so when said owners change the submission agreement without confirming all previous submissions, even more when they connive at stealing and transferring credit for submissions, and yet more when they consider transferring the site to a for profit business without having compensated said contributors.

    If you do not feel your contributions have earned you the right to make such demands then you may feel free not to make them, but do not presume to yield them for others.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:41 pm  

    All Right enough on all parties! GHO will stay open. Thats good enough for me and I doubt Issak ever intended to profit from his hosting of the site.

    Never once did I see him request money. He simply notified the GH community of his rough patch and he would no longer be able to fund GHO. An offer for aid is not profit. With that being said Chatdemon and Samwise bring up valid points if the site was to become a for profit site many problems could be derived from it and any sites associated with it.

    I'm not even going to touch the individual contributor portion of it. But profiting on content though original yet one of wish you do not own the IP to is a very dangerous game to play.

    I think the comment about severing ties with CF was more of a precautionary one for the benefit of CF than one of disrespect to GHO.

    It was good to see a Samwise post again. I miss hearing about his Keoland campaign.

    Everyone else contribute what you like but I think we can all be a bit more civil in here.
    Site Theocrat

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    Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:16 pm  

    GreyhawkOnline.com should be up now on the new host. I had to edit the index page and removed some things. I think Mort's WoG Comic site is working - but you might have to add /index.html to any saved link.
    I have Kickball tonight and a free movie preview of Win Win tomorrow night and a job interview on Friday and Friday Night Pathfinder Society and Saturday Pathfinder and then WifeFIEND care on Sunday. So it might not be this weekend that everything gets cleared up.
    At least I'm getting some PC/NPC/Monster Killing in.
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    Theocrat Issak
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    Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:52 pm  

    Blargh, my comic front page is showing what the site was in 2009? Must be an old archived file. Time to try out FTP...

    ...and denied! I'll be emailing ya Theo. ;P
    GreySage

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    Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:03 am  

    There's a couple of glitches, true, but Issak will get it worked out. Happy

    He's just as busy with other things as we all are, and yet he still manages to get more done than many that could be named. Evil Grin

    Exercise faith in the Holy Theocrat! Cool
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:55 am  

    Plz clear up the confusion Confused

    What exactly is the current status of the site and how can the board help Question

    Now is not the time to bicker and point fingers but too come together. rolleyes
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:49 pm  

    Come together...

    . .... right now....

    . .... Over me!

    Dum dum dada duuuummmm duuuummmmm

    Dum dum dada duuuuummm dummmmmm....


    Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.

    Denis, aka "Musical Maldin"
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    Where there's stuff.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:16 pm  

    Crag wrote:
    Plz clear up the confusion Confused
    What exactly is the current status of the site...

    Theocrat already cleared things up so far as I am concerned:
    TheocratIssak wrote:
    GreyhawkOnline.com should be up now on the new host. I had to edit the index page and removed some things. I think Mort's WoG Comic site is working - but you might have to add /index.html to any saved link.
    I have Kickball tonight and a free movie preview of Win Win tomorrow night and a job interview on Friday and Friday Night Pathfinder Society and Saturday Pathfinder and then WifeFIEND care on Sunday. So it might not be this weekend that everything gets cleared up.
    At least I'm getting some PC/NPC/Monster Killing in.

    Crag wrote:
    Now is not the time to bicker and point fingers but too come together. rolleyes

    And with that this thread is locked before anybody else, whether they actually know about things or not, makes any further ill-advised posts.
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