Well, as Rasgon pointed out in another thread, the fact that we can, do and will continue to change things as we see fit is pretty irrelevant to the discussion. After all, every discussion is ended by that point if you accept it as valid for the discussion. I don't use the cosmology as written now and I tend to make up my own monsters, adventures, etc. So in that sense, none of this is relevant to me.
But I still think the approach they are taking with this design is fundamentally flawed.. or, at least, at odds with the more expansive view I recall from "the olden days". And I particularly don't like how they are changing the baseline of discussion such that 4e folks aren't going to be talking the same language as 1-3e folks
When 4.0 hits the shelves, your copies of the 1983 boxed set will not burst into flame and be destroyed. And given that, I must assume that Greyhawk must be safe.
I'm still on the fence on whether or not to jump on the 4.0 bandwagon, but if I do I see no reason why I can't use it for proper Greyhawk stuff.
WotC is not offering a 3.5E conversion tool. So all your 3.5E material will have to be updated by you, to 4thE. If you have the time or create your own material then it isn't a biggie to changing over to 4thE, but remember that it is like changing from 2ndE to 3.0E. Very different.
For example, if a dragon is a major villain in your story plot and you carry him over to 4th but keep the rest 3.5, things are going to get nasty around your gaming table when your hard earned PCs die in the first encounter! Because the new edition isn't holding any punches! Be prepared to buy everything new!
Joined: Oct 17, 2007 Posts: 30 Location: 2nd pyramid
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject:
I know I am very late on this post but I think the main thing is not really discussed here... In one way or another, we all have our House Rules, regardless of which edition we are playing with.
The future of GreyHawk does notdepend on the set of rules but rather on the campagn setting manual published with each (new) set of rules.
GreyHawk has a long history through many modules and campaign setting.
WotC publishes a 4th edition ? Well that is not really important. What is important is in publishing a campaign setting with the new set, it also describes the course of on going eventssince the last set of rules and also allow to expand forward the timeline. Since GreyHawk is based on lands, kingdoms and history (IMO) rather than on important figures (like the Forgotten Realms), a new edition is a good or bad thing in itslef. What is bad is to not support the historical campaign setting and dump it to the oubliette.
I think it is always written in the DM's guide that "if you do not like one or more rules, just drop them." or something like that.
So, we do not like the 4th edition rules (I do REALLY not), well forget it but make me a decent setting so I can play with an "official" timeline (and my old editions' rules and House Rules).
Thanks. _________________ What does not kill us, makes us stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche
In 4th edition Tharizdun is imprisioned and has been for a long time.
Only the gods know where he is and he sends messages to his followers to gain power and escape.
This seems like the original concept of Tharizdun to me.
Gary Gygax wrote in Artifact of Evil page 47, 'Aeons ago, he was trapped by those deities who understood that this greatest Evil must be fettered or all Goodness would perish from this world and possibly the entire multiverse.'
As for Demons and Devils, each intelligent creature group will have strong, charismatic or intelligent members. Also the Demons and Devils speel in the core books is a guide. Maybe the particular fiends dealing with Oerth over the centuries have picked up a few tricks from their mortal minions.
There is nothing to stop you having the Bloodwar in forth edition. Various Devil Lords and Demon Princes can send their minions after items, secrets and even staging grounds for invasions. Most devils will do it for gain, most demons may do it for the thrill of destruction, but again they will have leaders with their own motivations.
End of the day characters learn about fiends from npcs, just because that NPC is knowledgable does not mean the information is not tainted or simply wrong.
The worlds are your oyster, create what stories you will.
Well Tharizdun is the epitomy of the Far Realm isn't he? I had him as an enitity of that realm that found his way into our 'reality' due to the ancient Eladrin's use of the Vast Gate within Firestorm Peak (converted to White Plume Mountain). The gods saw the threat and made their pact to imprison him. Our ongoing campaign has elements of the Artifact of Evil, Return to the ToEE, Age of Worms, and Living Greyhawk plots, including one involving a cabal of cambions planning to use Hunger to destroy Iuz.
Any whisper of the Big T's release should be kept for Epic.
I'm trying very hard not to lapse into my curmudgeonly old man persona, but every time I see stuff like this, it takes a lot of mental strength to contain myself. It's as if no one at WotC R&D either knows or cares about the 30+ years of history attached to some of these names and concepts. To them, they're just convenient monikers they can swipe for their own creations, the past be damned.
Such a shame -- and such a lost opportunity.
Said perfectly.....and the reason I departed from buying their offerings.
Now on my return (after 10 year sabbatical) the only course I see is how to incorporate their "offerings" back into something external and usable.
This my collegues is the challenge at hand .. if we have the strength to undertake it.
Further, Maldin's Grand Unified Theory of Life, the Multiverse and Everything presents a wonderful unique perspective on Tharizdun to build from. Read it here some where, not sure what thread ...certain a search would find it.
Joined: Nov 28, 2006 Posts: 336 Location: Barony of Trellwood, The Great Kingdom
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject:
Someone necro-ed this thread to life? Ugh, let it die again.
Big T was left vague until 3e when he was brought into the story of the game. Most folks had their own ideas of who and what Tharizdun was.
4e D&D has fixed The Chained God into the creation story of core assumptions of D&D.
It is actually pretty cool to be honest. It might not be your story. It certainly isn't E. Gary Gygax's story (then again anything beyond The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and the original '83 Box Set isn't really Gary's version either). But it is one story out there.
Who cares if WotC uses Tharizdun in 4e? Everyone's game is their own, WotC isn't going to come to your house and rip up your campaign notes or send canonfire.com a C&D letter because there are varying views on him.
Every edition of D&D reshapes what has come before. Monsters that originally appeared in the Forgotten Realms have appeared in Greyhawk. Many monsters that had their start in Greyhawk have been found elsewhere.
The idea that any campaign world is some how pure and lessened by any change is frankly a mystery to me. Almost everyone here has their own version of Greyhawk. None are more valid than another. We have folks on this forum playing it with RuneQuest for Pete's sake.
If 4e isn't your cup of tea, go find a version that is and find your happy place.
I don't go to other edition forum post how their version of Greyhawk sucks, how about folks start showing the same courtesy here. If you got a beef with WotC go to their forums and vent there among the gibbering flametards that populate their forums.
In short leave this forum to those that enjoy this edition and want to do something constructive.
Sun King of Arms, Herald of the Great Kingdom
Joined: Feb 16, 2003 Posts: 3721 Location: So. Cal
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:05 am Post subject:
While it is true that any thread can be resurrected, people ought to be aware of when the last post in any thread was made and reply to the thread accordingly, rather than as if the thread's conversion was continuing from just the previous day.
And I pity the fool who messes with Mr. T. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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