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    Canonfire :: View topic - Cobb Darg: Alignment
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Cobb Darg: Alignment

    What is Cobb Darg's Alignment?
    Lawful Good
    14%
     14%  [ 2 ]
    Lawful Good (Lawful Neutral tendencies)
    28%
     28%  [ 4 ]
    Lawful Neutral (Lawful Good tendencies)
    35%
     35%  [ 5 ]
    Lawful Neutral
    21%
     21%  [ 3 ]
    Total Votes : 14

    Author Message
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:16 am  
    Cobb Darg: Alignment

    I tried putting two polls on one thread. No dice!

    Allowing only the four choices was an oversight on my part. If you you think "Other", just say so, and I'll bring it up to the top. Happy

    You can find other Cobb Darg links here:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5195 (species poll)

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=34450&highlight=darg#34450

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2775&highlight=cobb

    http://melkot.com/locations/irongate.html


    Last edited by jamesdglick on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:48 am; edited 3 times in total
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:51 am  

    Since I like the idea of Cobb Darg being a gold dragon in disguise and gold dragons are always LG, I voted for LG. Smile

    If it was decided that Cobb Darg was something other than a gold dragon, I could see him being LG(N) as it may be necessary, sometimes, to make decisions that hurt the individuals involved for the benefit of the state (soldiers would be the most likely victims of such neutrality of alignment).

    SirXaris
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:04 am  

    I voted Lawful Neutral with Good tendencies. Despite what's been written elsewhere, if Cobb is a dragon, then I prefer a Greyhawk Dragon.

    Why? Because he's the Mayor of a City.

    Greyhawk Dragons like city living. If he's a Gold, then being the Mayor of a City would make him a little unusual -- for a Gold Dragon. (Of course, that could depend upon the Edition used. I'm not that familiar with ALL the D&D Editions.)

    That's my take, at any rate. Wink
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    Last edited by Mystic-Scholar on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:06 am  

    I must admit, Mystic, that your simple argument is a very good one in favor of a Greyhawk Dragon.

    SirXaris
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:42 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    Since I like the idea of Cobb Darg being a gold dragon in disguise and gold dragons are always LG, I voted for LG.


    -IIRC, the D&D 3.5 MM says "always" LG, there's a fine print definition in the back which explains that that means "almost always".

    SirXaris wrote:
    ...If it was decided that Cobb Darg was something other than a gold dragon, I could see him being LG(N) as it may be necessary, sometimes, to make decisions that hurt the individuals involved for the benefit of the state (soldiers would be the most likely victims of such neutrality of alignment)...


    -Even if he's a gold dragon, I think that LG (N) would still be within the norm.

    I don't think Darg needs a Neutral caveat to fight a war, otherwise King Belvor would have lost his paladinhood long ago.

    I went with LN (LG) on the following:

    1) "Reasons of state" stuff which are underhanded (assassination, torture, etc);

    2) Irongate itself has a heavy LN tilt, and he seems to fit in;

    3) I couldn't decide between LN and LG.

    Everyone assumes that he's smart (very high INT and WIS). He could personally have any alignment, but would still still act in accordance with that of most of the populace e.g., he could be a CE worshipper of the demon Flibbitywidget, but if he had tried to institiute human sacrifices, he wouldn't have lasted a week. Evil (or Chaos) isn't neccessarily stupid. I'd like to see form someone who puts him in the Chaotic or Evil side of things. But I assume that he's somewhere in the LG-LN continuum.

    SirXaris wrote:
    ...If it was decided that Cobb Darg was something other than a gold dragon...


    -I'm sort of hoping against the idea that it will "be decided". That's why if they ever do an Irongate supplement, I'm plugging for the "24 Flavors of Cobb Darg" concept. I think it's possible to detail Irongate, and even give quite a bit of background on the Lord Mayor himself, but leave the specific details of stats, species, class and alignment to the DM.

    Now, if you want to claim that Cobb Drag is a Giant Whale-Potted Petunia hybrid with an INT of 4, then I have to say "You're on your own." Laughing
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:01 pm  

    JDG,

    I appreciate all that you said in the above post. I think you will find much to appreciate in Maldin's version of Irongate, here: http://melkot.com/locations/irongate.html

    SirXaris
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:34 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:
    JDG,

    I appreciate all that you said in the above post. I think you will find much to appreciate in Maldin's version of Irongate, here: http://melkot.com/locations/irongate.html.

    SirXaris


    For some reason, your link is bad.

    The version of that link posted in the first post of these three Cobb Darg threads still seems to work.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:12 pm  

    I said lawful netural, because it seems more appropriate for Irongate.

    Plus, iron dragons are lawful neutral, and he's totally an iron dragon.
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:00 pm  

    Never heard of an Iron Dragon, although I am aware that Greyhawk Dragons are called Steel Dragons in other settings. Confused
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    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:52 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    SirXaris wrote:
    JDG,

    I appreciate all that you said in the above post. I think you will find much to appreciate in Maldin's version of Irongate, here: http://melkot.com/locations/irongate.html.

    SirXaris


    For some reason, your link is bad.

    The version of that link posted in the first post of these three Cobb Darg threads still seems to work.


    Don't know why it isn't working. Oh, well. As you said, the link is offered elsewhere.

    SirXaris
    Forum Moderator

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:03 pm  

    Xaris added an extra period in the link, it's all fixed now. Carry on... Smile
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:11 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    Never heard of an Iron Dragon, although I am aware that Greyhawk Dragons are called Steel Dragons in other settings. Confused


    Different creature. Iron dragons are the most powerful of the ferrous dragons detailed in Dragon #170 (2nd edition) and Dragon #356 (3rd edition), found in hills and mountains with iron deposits (like where Irongate is). Like Greyhawk/steel dragons, they can shapeshift into humanoid form, but the city isn't called Steelgate. Happy
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:41 pm  

    Well I'm not in the dragon camp for Cobb Darg. Though, I believe him to be Lawful Neutral, and much propaganda can exist. No one knows for sure what or who he truly is.

    Later

    Argon


    Last edited by Argon on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:27 pm  

    It's a tough one, and it seems unlikely that you will get a consensus on these boards. I have always backed the Greyhawk Dragon concept - largely because Darg must spend most of his life in human form and I don't believe any other Dragon type would be able to put up with that for so long. And this makes him LN with LG tendencies in my book

    I am still partial to the idea that the mystery is a deliberate cover for someone who is just a remarkable human (wise and perceptive). I'm still LN with LG tendencies in that case, but could be talked into LG.
    GreySage

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    Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:01 am  

    Phalastar wrote:
    I am still partial to the idea that the mystery is a deliberate cover for someone who is just a remarkable human (wise and perceptive).


    If so, then it becomes obvious that he keeps Elayne Mystica around for the creation of Potions of Longevity.

    He's already been Mayor for 40 years and -- though possible -- I think it unlikely that he first became Mayor at the age of 20, or younger. In all the artwork, he still looks pretty good . . . for his apparent age. Wink
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:33 am  

    I would swear that I had an "Other, explain" category for this. Now I can't change it. Oh well. If anyone disagrees with the LG-LN alignment continuum, just say so, I'll put it at the top of my post where it can be seen and added in.

    rasgon wrote:
    ...Plus, iron dragons are lawful neutral, and he's totally an iron dragon.


    -I don't see a "Dragon, other" in the "Cobb Darg's Species" thread (yeah, I mis-named the poll, too).

    Tap, tap, tap... Wink

    Phalastar wrote:
    I am still partial to the idea that the mystery is a deliberate cover for someone who is just a remarkable human (wise and perceptive).


    -I'm working on a D&D 3.5 version which makes him human and as low level as possible while still allowing for a lot of ability to obscure his background, alignment, etc (Aristocrat/Spymaster).

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    ...He's already been Mayor for 40 years and -- though possible -- I think it unlikely that he first became Mayor at the age of 20, or younger. In all the artwork, he still looks pretty good . . . for his apparent age...


    -For my project, I've been re-looking the canonical and semi-canonical stuff.

    Dragon #351 (IIRC) says that it is "common knowledge" that he served as both an agent and a diplomat. He then briefly became a Quarter head before getting elected. I'll assume that that's accurate. I've seen things which claim that only the elves and dwarves remember a time before Cobb Darg, but that could be exaggeration. I've also seen hints that he took part in the ouster of South Province CY 446-447. That could be BOGINT too, but I'm using it for now; if he is that old, and he was some sort of intell' operative, it would provide a non-magical explanation for why his origins are a mystery.

    The pictures of Cobb Darg in the LGGazeteer (with Elayne Mystica in the tower) and the one in Dragon really don't match. Different times? Perhaps he changes his appearance?

    Or maybe I'm reading too much into a pair of pictures... Laughing Razz
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:51 pm  

    Jamesdglick,

    You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words. So two pictures two thousand words. Wink

    Well get to it ! Razz

    A two thousand word write up of the pictures.

    Later

    Argon
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    Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:38 am  

    Phalastar wrote:
    It's a tough one, and it seems unlikely that you will get a consensus on these boards...


    -That's why I'm hoping for a "24 Flavors of Cobb Darg" option if anything canonical gets put out on him.

    Argon wrote:
    ...You know what they say a picture is worth a thousand words. So two pictures two thousand words. Wink

    Well get to it ! Razz

    A two thousand word write up of the pictures...


    -I think it's easier to say "The artist for the Dragon picture didn't bother consulting the picture in the LGG.

    Now, that does leave the LGG picture to analyze. I know Darg is supposed to be less than 5' tall, but Elayne M still must be a fairly tall woman.

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:

    Phalastar wrote:
    I am still partial to the idea that the mystery is a deliberate cover for someone who is just a remarkable human (wise and perceptive).


    If so, then it becomes obvious that he keeps Elayne Mystica around for the creation of Potions of Longevity.

    He's already been Mayor for 40 years and -- though possible -- I think it unlikely that he first became Mayor at the age of 20, or younger. In all the artwork, he still looks pretty good . . . for his apparent age. Wink


    -The same is true of Elayne.

    Anyone ever consider the possibility that they might be lovers? I'm sure they would consider that to be thoroughly unprofessional, but you never know... Razz Wink Confused
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:55 pm  

    Jamesdglick,

    Sometimes one can't help but dip their pen in the company ink! Wink
    I would think it is likely Elayne and Cobb are either lover's or kin, though not both. Razz Just want to clarify the latter.

    Later

    Argon
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    Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:17 pm  

    Argon wrote:
    ...I would think it is likely Elayne and Cobb are either lover's or kin...


    -I was considering abysslin's thought about Darg being a Derro (maybe the first). That would both give them a Suel connection, as would being a komazar or a doppleganger. I'm not really going with it, but FWIW...

    Argon wrote:
    Sometimes one can't help but dip their pen in the company ink! Wink


    -Naughty, naughty! That's like taking a dump in your bunker. It might be a relief now, but the long term effects are likley to be unpleasant... Laughing

    Argon wrote:
    ...I would think it is likely Elayne and Cobb are either lover's or kin, though not both. Razz ...


    -Obviously, you are a narrow-minded individual with petit bourgois values... Razz Laughing unless, see above... Wink
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:21 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    Argon wrote:
    ...I would think it is likely Elayne and Cobb are either lover's or kin...


    -I was considering abysslin's thought about Darg being a Derro (maybe the first). That would both give them a Suel connection, as would being a komazar or a doppleganger. I'm not really going with it, but FWIW...

    Argon wrote:
    Sometimes one can't help but dip their pen in the company ink! Wink


    -Naughty, naughty! That's like taking a dump in your bunker. It might be a relief now, but the long term effects are likley to be unpleasant... Laughing

    Argon wrote:
    ...I would think it is likely Elayne and Cobb are either lover's or kin, though not both. Razz ...


    -Obviously, you are a narrow-minded individual with petit bourgois values... Razz Laughing unless, see above... Wink


    Wow! I was quoted multiple times in one response. I'm impressed! Smile

    Besides what happens in Irongate remains in Irongate. Wink Unless some chatter box decides to spread ugly rumors in a thread online! Razz Laughing

    Later

    Argon
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    Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:38 am  

    Being from New Orleans, allow to assure everyone, this is an example, it is only an example!

    Have either of you guys ever been to "Alabama?" Evil Grin
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:18 pm  

    Mystic Scholar,

    That just gives a whole new meaning to "Sweet Home Alabama"! Shocked Laughing

    Later

    Argon
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