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    Canonfire :: View topic - Animal totems for Old Faith gods
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    Animal totems for Old Faith gods
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 am  
    Animal totems for Old Faith gods

    So I'm working on identifying corresponding animal totems/symbols for gods in my version of the Old Faith (Beory, Ehlonna, Pelor, Obad-hai, Nerull, plus Atroa, Sotillion, Wenta, Telchur). These would be used for masks, animal companions, symbolic art/dress, divine messengers, etc. I have four I'm fairly solid on:
    Ehlonna: unicorn
    Pelor: eagle
    Obad-hai: stag
    Nerull: raven or vulture

    But the others are open. Maybe a wolf for Telchur?

    I'm interested in ideas and comments you might have - please don't feel constrained by published material, though such suggestions are also welcome.
    GreySage

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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:09 am  

    Atroa: eagle (she has an eagle companion in the LGG).
    Sotillion: tiger (she has a winged tiger companion according to the LGG)
    Telchur: bull (he has an albino winged bull companion in the LGG)
    Wenta: goose (seen in the skies in autumn, flying south).

    Technically Pelor's canonical animal companion is a ki-rin and Nerull's is a great winged daemon steed (in the Gord books) or demodand (in his original description), but if you're looking for mundane animals an eagle and a vulture work. The only problem is that the eagle is already Atroa's canonical companion (I could also see her with a rabbit as a symbol of spring, fertility, and Easter). I think of Pelor as more of a lion, personally; he looks very leonine, with his great mane of hair, and I think he looks cool with a lion's head.

    For Beory, a mother bear might work, or a tortoise supporting the world. I think I'd go with a tortoise, heavy with eggs - it's big and round and green like the Oerth itself. But any big, maternal animal would be appropriate. I could also see her as an elephant or mammoth. Or a turtle with elephants on top of it.

    If you don't use a bear for Beory (their names kind of sound alike), you could use a bear for Wenta, since autumn is the time when bears get ready for hibernation, and a bear is more impressive than a goose. Maybe a winged bear, since all her siblings' animals have wings.

    Ehlonna is really associated with both horses and unicorns, depending on whether you're looking at her human aspect or her elven aspect (Ehlenestra). If you're looking for mundane animals, I'd go with a horse, but obviously unicorns are also part of her iconography.
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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:36 pm  

    Thanks for your suggestions, Rasgon. I am indeed looking just for mundane, or mostly mundane, animals; "common" magical beasts like unicorns are OK, though I think ki-rin are too far out. I've seen the LGG companion animals, but they don't feel quite right to me - IMC there are no tigers near the Flanaess, for instance, so I doubt people would choose a tiger to associate with Sotillion. Also these wouldn't be the gods' companions necessarily, but a companion a priest might acquire.

    I can see the lion for Pelor; I've got lions roaming old Suel and a little over the mountains, so that would work. The 3E iconography certainly looks leonine. I'm partially basing all this on Roman Mithraism, which involved some animal masks including an eagle, and I thought it was sufficiently regal for Pelor. Obviously a lion's regal too! Maybe I'll stick with the eagle for Atroa after all.

    I had thought about a bear for Wenta, but hadn't thought of the hibernation angle - that's nice.

    I'm not quite sold on a turtle for Beory...a turtle with elephants? Next you'll be telling me that at Needfest the Hogfather delivers presents to all the good children of Greyhawk... Wink Wink Well, I'll keep thinking. That leaves Sotillion. What are good summery animals?
    GreySage

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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:48 pm  

    Chevalier wrote:
    That leaves Sotillion. What are good summery animals?


    How about a lynx? They're found in Europe and they share with tigers the same kind of feel of an exotic, beautiful big cat sprawling lazily on a rug, leashed to a goddess dressed as a noblewoman. Ozymandius's lynx Bubastis (in the graphic novel Watchmen) comes to mind.

    Other possibilities include a peacock (the symbol of Hera) or a phoenix.

    How about a bison for Beory? Or an Irish elk?

    Telchur is supposed to be allied with the Wolf Lord.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:28 pm  

    In the Core Beliefs series of articles in Dragon, the one on Pelor profiled Noonfeather, a celestial giant eagle with golden claws and beak and white-gold feathers on his head. Even with the canon companion animal being a ki-rin, I ignore that in favor of the eagle, although I think a lion would work as well as a symbol of a sun god. A god could also have multiple animals representing different aspects of his or her cult.

    I see a polar bear for Telchur, although it's contrary to his canon companion animal.

    EDIT: Have you read this article - Living Greyhawk Power Groups - Druids of the Old Faith? Except for identifying a stag with Obad-Hai I didn't see any associations with animals, but there's a lot of food for thought there.
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    Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:15 pm  
    Trithereon animals

    Of particular note are the three mundane animals that are very closely associated with Trithereon the Summoner, god of Liberty.
    ... they are: Nemoud the Hound, Harrus the Falcon, and Carolk the Sea Lizard. I know that in theDragon magazine, Kalman Adrosofsky illustrated Nemoud as a hound that appeared as an Irish Wolfhound, for whatever that's worth.
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    GreySage

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    Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:39 am  

    Chevalier,

    My question to you is from what real world continent do you prefer your animals to come? Are you thinking European, Asian, North American...? There is some overlap with fauna, but each continent or country tends to have its own unique wildlife, too.

    -Lanthorn
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    Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:41 pm  

    Rasgon: The lynx is a great call for Sotillion, thanks. Bubastis is a nice visual for what hers would look like, though I think her priests would have to settle for a more mundane version.

    Smillan: I'd forgotten about the Core Beliefs article; that swings the pendulum back toward an eagle for Pelor, though my best alternative for Atroa is a rabbit. Maybe it could have big pointy teeth...oh, and I'd considered the polar bear for Telchur; I'll keep that in mind. Rasgon's note about the Wolf Lord might be the deciding factor, though.

    Lanthorn: As to which continent - mostly Europe, but only because the Flanaess is largely an analogue for Europe. Not that I care if there are animals from somewhere else; it's a fantasy world, after all. I wouldn't have a problem with tigers except that my world has already established tigers as being fairly distant, while lions for instance are close enough that people would have heard of them, would maybe have seen them, and would at least have seen reliable depictions of them.

    A little more background - I'm designing a place that in the distant past would have been a center of learning for the Flan, and a religious center for the Old Faith, kind of like Ynys Mon (Anglesey Island off Wales) was for the druids. I have it in my head that the hierophants wore masks representing the different associated animals, and that there would be art depicting men with animal heads. The place was sacked by the Aerdians in the course of their conquest (much like the Romans did to Ynys Mon) and the place is now a ruin. The PCs would discover that Vecna studied here in his youth, and they search the ruins hoping to find some information about his past...Also it's just one part of my slow-going project to revamp the whole theogony and religious structure of Oerth.

    Thanks all for the comments!
    GreySage

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    Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:45 pm  

    Chevalier, I like your idea of animal totems representing your 'druidic' pantheon. If you have access to it, look at the 2e Complete Book of Druids as there is a 'totemic druid' concept/kit in there.

    Are the above Powers the only members in your version of the Old Faith, or are there more you wish to add? What of Llerg (though he already has snakes, bears, and crocodiles noted in his portfolio), Bralm, and Phyton, to list but a few?

    As a zoology teacher with an undergraduate degree in Biology who has spent a summer internship in Yellowstone National Park and a volunteer stint serving at a wildlife refuge in Arkansas (both in my young adulthood), I have to admit this idea appeals to me...and I will start pondering at length to offer more suggestions not already noted above.

    Beastmaster, Happy

    (Argon, make any cracks and suffer losing your awarded Karma! Wink )

    Lanthorn
    GreySage

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    Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:06 pm  

    OK, have some ideas for you:

    Beory: As the Oerth Mother I gotta admit that I like the idea of a bear. Bears seem very in tune with the cycles and rhythms of the various seasons. During spring they emerge from the earth itself after spending months hibernating and gorge themselves upon the bounty around them. Sows have cubs with them. Futhermore, a mother bear is one of the most protective and dangerous animals to face. This continues throughout summer and into the fall when breeding begins and they are fattened up to survive the harshness of winter by returning to the earth and hibernate. Then spring rolls around and they emerge, thinner and very hungry but none the worse for wear. Interestingly, it is while they hibernate that the sows give birth! They are tough, rugged, and adaptable omnivores. Bears are a great representation for Beory, I think.

    Ehlonna: As a goddess of the forest, nothing seems more appropriate than a deer or stag to me. That would make a great face mask with sprouting antlers. Deer are majestic and beautiful, but also graceful, nimble, quick, and can be dangerous if cornered. Those antlers may be for show, but they can gore, and deer hooves are sharp. Ehlonna may be a peaceful goddess, but if provoked, she can also deliver at the end of sword or with archery.

    Pelor: As a god of the sun who, it is said, can summon forth flocks of eagles, I think that a golden eagle is a great choice. It is an awe-inspiring birth of great beauty and noble bearing with its plumage, piercing eyes, great size, and sharp talons. Flying aloft, a golden eagle is a lovely sight to behold and truly could be 'heaven sent' in druidic eyes. Don't forget that clerics of Pelor have elemental air access, and specialty priests can also fly...an eagle is perfect.

    Obad-hai: No single animal comes to mind for the Shalm. For Obad-hai, who represents all environments and nature in its primal state, I could see a mixture of all sorts of animals meshed together on a mask. He is the utter embodiment of all creatures, no matter the ecological niche (predator, prey, scavenger, you name it). I don't think you can go wrong with any creature for him.

    Nerull: As the slayer of men, eater of flesh, the Reaper could easily be portrayed by those animals, as noted earlier, that are associated with death. Vultures, crows and ravens, even jackals (or coyotes) could be used. If you want to get more disgusting, perhaps even scarab beetles or flies, worms and maggots...

    Atroa: Venerating the rebirth of springtime, I think of songbirds whose calls fill the air each morning. Nests are built for the coming of new life. I like the idea of colorful fowl for her. That aside, perhaps something cute and cuddly, seemingly defenseless and 'pure' like a fawn or rabbit.

    At this time I am still completely at a block for Sotillion or Wenta...

    Telchur: I LOVE the idea of a polar bear, but mainly for those 'druids' in the tundra regions. Likewise, an arctic wolf, reindeer, snowy owl or musk ox could work, and those would make great totemic masks. For those druids dwelling in the taiga (boreal forest) which, I have read, Telchur prefers, you could use creatures native to that region, such as the wolverine or lynx.

    hope this helps,

    -Lanthorn
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    Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:16 pm  

    Those are some very good suggestions, Lanthorn. Thanks for taking the time to consider your answers.

    I am wondering about Incabulos, though. I can't find anything in the Greyhawk Wiki or anywhere else that tells what pantheon he originates from, but I can't help thinking that he is Flan. In that case, I would associate maggots, flies, and centipedes with him rather than Nerull.

    SirXaris
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    Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:55 pm  

    Yeah, those nasty buggers would work very well for Incabulos, to be sure. But since the author didn't ask for totems for the Bringer of Pestilence, I figured these animals could work for Nerull in Incabulos' absence. A scarab for sure would be a nice pick for the Reaper while maggots, flies, fleas, ticks/mites, and rats, all vermin that carry disease, work for Incabulos, if both Powers are used.

    Also, been thinking about Sotillion, and perhaps a dragonfly or butterfly could work for a summertime animal totem since they like the rays and warmth of the sun. An inoffensive frog or turtle, too?

    Wenta...still not sure. But if one comes to mind, I'll surely post it!

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

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    Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:22 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:
    I am wondering about Incabulos, though. I can't find anything in the Greyhawk Wiki or anywhere else that tells what pantheon he originates from


    Incabulos is a Common deity. That means he's known to most cultures. The Flan had myths of him (where he's the stillborn brother of Obad-hai), and the Baklunish (where he's Selvelkar the Waster, the eternal enemy of Geshtai), and the Oeridians (where he's the one of the three ancient gods of woe, brother of Erythnul and the Reaper), and the orcs (where he's Yurtrus the Rotting One), and the dwarves (where he's the first flaw in the creations of Moradin), and the elves (where he's the brother of Sehanine Moonbow, and kidnapped her half-divine daughter), and the giants (where he emerged among the hags who lived in the darkness before the creation of the world). He's a near-universal figure, feared by peoples all across the Oerth.

    He can be any animal, but always scabrous and diseased, his face hidden and his forelimbs skeletal.
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    Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:28 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    Incabulos is a Common deity. That means he's known to most cultures. ... a bunch of incredibly cool stuff ... He's a near-universal figure, feared by peoples all across the Oerth.

    Rasgon, *that* is really cool stuff. It's one of the things that I think is more common than many people think. Some deities are worshipped by other peoples, even if they call them by different names and have various rituals for them.
    Now, I know there's some canon for some of the things that you wrote (Yurtrus, for example), but, I can't help but wonder if all of it is. You make them all sound so cool, and so matter-of-fact, I haven't any idea if you're coming up with some of it.
    Either way, you're either incredibly well informed (because I've never ever heard 25% of it), or you are a rather good tale-spinner, because those all sound like cool incarnations of what a god of disease would be in each pantheon!!

    Rock on. Cool
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:08 am  

    This took some thought. In some cases, I've applied two animals to Eholonna and explained my reasons for this. And I have not bothered sticking to a strictly “European” feel.

    Ehlonna: Horse and Unicorn, dependent upon the people in question, not the “race.” The Wolf and Tiger nomads, the Rovers of the Barrens; these are plains peoples. For them, Eholonna would be the Horse, an animal of the “open plains.” For most others, Ehlonna is the Goddess of the Forest and that's the Unicorn.

    Beory: Bear. Most cultures associate the bear with the earth, due to the fact that they hibernate underground . . . in caves.

    Pelor: Lion. The write-ups on Pelor give the feeling of “king of the gods.” Of the “modern” gods, only Pelor was “there” when dread Tharizdun was imprisoned. Also, the impression is that, when Pelor speaks everybody listens. Should Nerull or Incabulous anger Pelor, he will react, whereas Nerull and Incabulous would not be so quick to react to something Pelor did; not out of fear, but out of caution for Pelor's power. As I said, that's the feel that the write-ups give. What better totem for the “king of the gods,” then the “king of beasts?”

    Obad-hai: Stag. The God of Nature is perceived as the God of the Forest. The Stag symbolizes the forest better than any other animal, while at the same time conveying a sense of majesty.

    Nerull: Vulture. The raven is more a sign of ill-omen, whereas the vulture is the universal sign of Death. Vulture for the God of Death.

    Telchur: Polar Bear. Telchur is not a “gentle” god by any means. He is the definition of harsh, even more so than Vatun. Ask any arctic explorer, when a polar bear comes around, you run! He is not coming to “sniff you” in a “friendly” fashion. Even the hungriest of wolves will not attack a human unless they greatly out number him, or think they have a distinct advantage. Not so the “great, white bear of the north” . . . you're dinner!

    Atroa: Eagle. Atroa is majesty. She is the soaring winds, blowing down upon her children from “on high.” Among birds, the eagle also represents Atroa's indifference, whereas few birds are capable of showing indifference, not when the eagle's around that is.

    Sotillion: Winged Leopard. Along with the Tiger, the Leopard also symbolizes the goddess' “relaxing quiet” and 'avoidance of unnecessary activity.' But the Winged Leopard also symbolizes the swift action capable of the Southern Winds. (The symbolism of the Winged Leopard can be found in the Bible: Daniel 7:6)

    Wenta: Goose. Though the southern winds belong to Sotillion, any farmer can tell you that, immediately after they have finished the Goddess of the Harvest work, geese flock to the fields to eat the grain which has fallen to the earth. Hunters also know this well. No bird of the sky – a fitting symbol for any Wind Goddess – so symbolizes the harvest as does the goose.

    Incabulous: A scabrous, human face, with maggots inside the wounds. Nothing else works quite so well for the God of Pestilence. Not a skull, for that would imply that the "person" were already dead, rather than seriously ill. The only animal that might suitably symbolize this would be "magical;" the Krenshar, with the skin pulled back from its face. I don't think a mask of a "pale horse" would quite convey the horror and revulsion of Pestilence.

    Well, there you have it . . . my two copper pieces. Wink
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:20 am  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    ...
    Incabulous: A scabrous, human face, with maggots inside the wounds. Nothing else works quite so well for the God of Pestilence. ...
    I think most all of those are great, M-S ... the only proviso that I would add to this is that this depiction could be confused with Kyuss - a fetid skull with worms coming out of it.
    Other than that, the animal totems are well-considered.
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:39 am  

    Thanks, Icarus.

    I had given thought to the comparison with Kyuss, which is another reason I specifically mentioned not using the skull.

    But also, I was thinking that Kyuss is not so well known as Incabulous and therefore would not be associated with Incabulous, in most of the Flanaess, anyway.

    Of course, it's easy to see where the two could be very confusing in certain other places. I will have to give further thought to a suitable animal in order to avoid such confusion.

    Thanks again. Cool
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:10 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    I think of Pelor as more of a lion, personally; he looks very leonine, with his great mane of hair, and I think he looks cool with a lion's head.


    I also like this image for Pelor. I first saw this concept in a post on GreyTalk 10-15 years back that proposed that Pelor was originally depicted by the early Flan as having a lion's head.
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:16 pm  

    Chevalier wrote:

    Lanthorn: As to which continent - mostly Europe, but only because the Flanaess is largely an analogue for Europe. Not that I care if there are animals from somewhere else; it's a fantasy world, after all. I wouldn't have a problem with tigers except that my world has already established tigers as being fairly distant, while lions for instance are close enough that people would have heard of them, would maybe have seen them, and would at least have seen reliable depictions of them.


    Lions once inhabited parts of southern Europe, but were overhunted, so the story goes, by Romans looking for fodder for the arena.

    Also, the first or second Gord book mentions lions among the wildlife of the Adri. They may even appear on encounter tables in the '83 box or FtA.

    Also, there is European version of the bison, the wisent, for those who like their Rovers to have an American plains Indian feel.
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:31 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    I also like this image for Pelor. I first saw this concept in a post on GreyTalk 10-15 years back that proposed that Pelor was originally depicted by the early Flan as having a lion's head.


    Yeah, I remember that post. It was by Chris Jarvis, who also had the Flan originally representing Rao as a white eagle or feathered serpent.

    Chris Jarvis wrote:
    The ancient Flanni depiction of Pelor was that of a great lion-headed being who walked the lands combating evil and the powers of darkness.

    In holy visions, Pelor is seen as a huge lion headed titan with fur and skin the color of spun gold. His eyes are blazing orbs of light, and his roar deafening. He is rarely clad in anything more than a simple kilt of white cloth, and sandals. He often bears no more than an unremarkable (though befitting his size) staff of wood. But in times of battle and anger his visage and demeanor alter drastically. In battle, Pelor dons the full regalia of war. It is then that he wields Renwheot, the mighty Sun-Lance, and bears the Sundisk shield. Gold is his breastplate and mail and fierce is his wrath. In war he rides forth in his great sun chariot drawn by seven huge fiery winged horses.


    Quote:
    The White God Rao is first and foremost the patron of peace, reason, serenity, truth, and harmony. He is the eternal vigilant guardian of the Scales of Law, and the enduring Peacemaker, and Peacekeeper. He is seen as the manifestation of the forces of Law, a minion or being from the Great Outer Darkness come to Oerth to judge truth and impart reason. The early Flani depicted Rao as a white eagle on an ebon starry sky. He was said to appear on Oerth as a great, feathered serpent, full of knowledge and wisdom.

    Current theologians envision him as an eagle headed man, or an imposing white haired savant garbed in glowing white and black robes. His accouterments are Rellistarri (the Scales of Law), Kar Am Fay (the Sword of Truth) and Yennidon (the Sword of Peace).
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:01 pm  

    Icarus wrote:

    Now, I know there's some canon for some of the things that you wrote (Yurtrus, for example), but, I can't help but wonder if all of it is. You make them all sound so cool, and so matter-of-fact, I haven't any idea if you're coming up with some of it.


    The list of Common deities, and explanation that this means gods who are worshiped in most areas as opposed to those with a specific racial origin, is in the 1983 World of Greyhawk boxed set.

    The Baklunish name "Sevelkhar the Waster" and representation as the eternal opponent of Geshtai comes from Russell S. Timm's article on Incabulos in Oerth Journal #9.

    The concept of an ancient race of hags that precede Creation in giantish myth is from Monster Mythology, which does not mention Incabulos.

    Yurtrus is a canonical orc god of disease, but isn't canonically linked to Incabulos in any way.

    The 2nd edition sourcebook Country Sites includes detail on a hospice known as Nulvayaharan, "the Place of Broken Dreams" in Elvish. It's a place used to house victims of a contagious disease (nulvayahar, the dreaming madness) that only affects those of elven (and half-elven) blood, which eventually renders victims catatonic in an unending nightmare state. I thought that Nulvayaharan needed to be somewhere in either the Duchy or County of Ulek, and its cause should be a curse brought upon the elven race after a daughter of Sehanine Moonbow became imprisoned by Incabulos, something like the myth of Hades and Persephone. I thought that Sehanine, the goddess of dreams, was an obvious counterpart to Incabulos, the god of nightmares.

    The rest of it is stuff I made up.

    It occurs to me that any grouping of ancient Oeridian gods of woe ought to also include Ralishaz (another Common deity rather than one with a specific ethnic origin).
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    Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:20 pm  

    Rasgon,

    As always, you have a way of taking small tidbits of canon, mixed with your personal creations, and making them gel nicely.

    Later

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    Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:27 pm  

    More wonderful comments! Thanks especially to Lanthorn and Mystic-Scholar for your thorough responses.

    So here's my update list:
    Beory: bear. Lanthorn really sold me on this. Earth, hibernation, motherhood all good aspects.
    Atroa: Undecided; depends on where I go with Pelor. I might choose an eagle for her only because I don't feel good about the alternatives. Sheep?
    Ehlonna: Unicorn and horse. I like M-S's argument for it being dependent on lifestyle, with plains-people (Rovers) favoring the horse, and woods-folk favoring a unicorn...in my particular setting, they'll probably use a unicorn, but be aware of the horse.
    Sotillion: Sticking with Rasgon's lynx.
    Pelor: Stuck between eagle and lion. Persuasive cases for each...but if no better alternative for Atroa, I'll go with a lion.
    Wenta: Hm. Leaning toward a goose...looking for ways to make her more august than just the barmaid to the gods.
    Obad-hai: Will stick with a stag, or maybe even elk. Here I admit I'm partially influenced by Erastil from Golarion, and also by the notion of a stag as king of the temperate forest - wait, that's from Bambi! Although you also see this imagery in Mists of Avalon.
    Telchur: Polar bear or winter wolf. I've changed his alignment to lawful, so I like the wolf aspect, and maybe making it the more potent, unusual winter wolf will approximate some of the polar bear's cache.
    Nerull: Probably vulture; Mystic-Scholar has some good points here. That was my original idea, inspired by the Isle of Green Stones. I considered ravens mostly because of the Mithraic tie.

    Now Incabulos isn't part of my plan, but I would support a rat or a decaying ram, a la Anthraxus.

    Robbastard, thanks for the reminder about the encounter tables in the glossography; I'll give those a look. I had those European lions in mind: IMC lions once roamed the Suel basin and southwards, as well as modern Yeomanry, S. Keoland, and the Pomarj. Lions in the Adri seem strange- maybe mountain lions? Curious.
    GreySage

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    Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:07 pm  

    If you like lions and eagles for potential animal totems for Pelor, cannot make up your which to pick, and you are using unicorns for Ehlonna (even though I thought you wanted 'real type' of animals), why not go for the obvious infusion and pick a griffon?! Cool

    Also, a note about the European wisent. They are a woodlands bison, not found in open grasslands like their larger, North American counterpart.

    -Lanthorn
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:35 pm  

    Chevalier wrote:
    Robbastard, thanks for the reminder about the encounter tables in the glossography; I'll give those a look. I had those European lions in mind: IMC lions once roamed the Suel basin and southwards, as well as modern Yeomanry, S. Keoland, and the Pomarj. Lions in the Adri seem strange- maybe mountain lions? Curious.


    Chevalier, as far as the types of animals inhabiting the Flanaess I tend to base it IMC off the encounter tables in the 1e DMG (I think I use it now as a resource more as a 4e DM than I ever did as a 1e DM). In the uninhabited/wilderness temperate to sub-tropical tables, lions are listed as appearing in a variety of terrain, in plains even being slightly more frequently encountered than wolves. Mountains lions are on a separate table, the faerie and sylvan settings table, so mountain lions in the Adri would work, but there could also be a few lions still roaming about according to those tables.
    GreySage

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    Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:58 pm  

    Lions are associated with the African savanna, but historical records DO place them across Asia Minor and parts of Europe. As was noted earlier, thank the Roman bloodlust for likely wiping them out in their former range to fuel the Empire's desire for the gladiatorial pits.

    Fossil evidence places lions in NORTH AMERICA, and these American lions were even larger than their current day, African counterparts. They all went extinct during the Pleistocene Epoch (last Ice Age), along with all the other 'megafauna' like mammoths, dire wolves, and smilodon (sabretooth cats).

    Even though lions may be found primarily in open grasslands, you can place them in pretty much most environments that support large bands of these cooperative killers (big prey base). Forest and scrublands are a next option.

    If you want a big cat for woodland environments, the mountain lion or leopard is better suited. They are far more agile than lions and much better at climbing. Both cats have an extensive range due to their amazing adaptability, especially compared to lions.

    -Lanthorn of the Jungle Wink
    GreySage

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    Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:00 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    Pelor: Lion. The write-ups on Pelor give the feeling of “king of the gods.” Of the “modern” gods, only Pelor was “there” when dread Tharizdun was imprisoned.


    Rao was there if the Book of Incarum quoted from in Dungeon #41 is accurate (it might not be). I would argue that Boccob was there, both because Tharizdun is noted as one of Boccob's primary foes (because the Dark God is believed to be responsible for the future waning of magic) and because Rob Kuntz had the Lord of Magic responsible for the imprisonment of Tharzdu'un in his essay "The Dark God: Historical Content, Developer Commentary, and an Ode to the Dark God."

    Also, this might be controversial but I'd also argue for Asmodeus having a role in the binding of Tharizdun, since in the Pathfinder game he helped bind their Tharizdun equivalent, Rovagug, and in 4th edition's Demonomicon Asmodeus was originally an angel tasked with helping to guard Tharizdun's prison before Pazuzu corrupted him. The counterargument is that in the Gord books the archdevils are devoted servants of Tharizdun and dedicated to his reawakening.

    Apart from those four (Pelor, Boccob, Rao, and Asmodeus), I'd assume that most deities of equivalent age, whether good or evil or neutral, had some role in opposing Tharizdun before his imprisonment, since the idea that it took a massive coalition of all alignments to bind mighty Tharizdun is usually a big part of his myth.
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