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    Canonfire :: View topic - The Serpent and Magic
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    The Serpent and Magic
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 30, 2004
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    Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:48 pm  
    The Serpent and Magic

    Assuming that the Serpent is more than just a delusion rattling around in Vecna's skull, has anyone experimented with adapting some of the Shadow Weave material from the Forgotten Realms as a twisted form of magic practiced by followers of the Serpent?
    Assuming anyone has even used the Serpent's followers as antagonists...

    Probably remove the emphasis on darkness and make it simply a form of magic antithetical to the form commanded by Boccob, Wee Jas, etc.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:23 pm  

    I like the idea that the blood magic of the Ur Flanae was a product of their discovery of the Serpent.

    SirXaris
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    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
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    Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:18 pm  

    According to VHotR, the Serpent "gave the gift of wizardy to all the Ur-Flan people." Vecna's tribe was the last to revere the Serpent, as all other Ur-Flan tribes had forgotten or were "destroyed by witch-hunters."

    Also, according to the same source (which purports to be an excerpt from the Chronicle of Secret Times), "only the great god-kings could speak with Mok'Slyk while they were still living."
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:58 am  

    Although it's open to interpretation, I've always preferred acting upon the belief that Mok'slyk -- and the Ancient Brethren -- is real and not a figment of Vecna's imagination, as in my Caerdiralor stories. The Serpent taught the Flannae magic and received their worship and veneration in return.

    But I have never tried to describe the nature of that magic in exact terms. Of late, however, I have begun creating Ur-Flan characters with the powers of Shadow Casters, combined with Necromancy, so I can appreciate your "theory."

    However, I don't mix Faerun with Greyhawk, although the concept of the Shadow Weave may very well be generic 3.5 D&D, as opposed to "world specific," I wouldn't know.

    But that's just me. Wink
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:16 pm  

    The Shadow Weave isn't generic, I just sometimes adapt elements of other worlds for Greyhawk use.
    e.g. Eberron Artificers adapted as Kwalish-esque Baklunish clockwork mages or some of the titan blood tainted areas of the Scarred Lands as (much smaller) areas contaminated by Ranet's blood after Pyremius murdered her.

    The general concept is form of magic that's resistant to effects that disrupt conventional magic, since it draws on a different source, and is dangerous for normal wizards to use (in magic items) due to the conflicting energies.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:19 pm  

    I suppose you could link this in with the Order of the Storm from AoW? They might have dabbled and known about all sorts of forbidden lore which could come flooding back.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:28 am  

    I don't know anything about Eberron and am not as familiar with the A.o.W. as I should be.

    When you speak of the Shadow Weave I think of the publication Tome of Magic, which deals with Pact, Shadow and TrueName magics.

    The Shadowcasters presented therein perform their magic in a way that is completely different from magics practiced by a "normal" Magician. In fact, Shadowcasters have their very own Spell List and Feats and do not use the Spells or Feats that "normal" Magicians do. Conversely, "normal" Magicians do not use the Spells or Feats that Shadowcasters do. "Shadow Magic" even has its own Prestige Classes.

    It's two completely different "Worlds of Magic." That's what your "Shadow Weave" puts me n mind of. Wink
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:25 pm  

    Perhaps the Serpent is Tharizdun who try to manipulate Vecna..
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:39 pm  

    I wouldn't think so. That implies a subtlety that I believe Tharizdun lacks. Confused

    Tharizdun is more of a "direct actions" deity, confident in his power. His interest is in destroying the "known" multiverse, not in corrupting people to his service.

    Consider the fact that he cares nothing for his worshipers. Evil Grin
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    From: Missouri

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    Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:23 am  

    Mydrianor, I've always thought as well that Tharizdun is a good candidate for the Serpent. Though Mystic-Scholar's viewpoint of a non-subtle, direct Tharizdun is also valid, and other suitable interpretations of the Serpent exist.

    IMC, Ravenloft/Domain of Dread is in fact Tharizdun's prison. His chief goal is to fully escape it once and for all, so that he can get on with his main interest in effecting permanent darkness everywhere/destroying the multiverse/what have you. Long ago he was able to crack the prison, and release an avatar into the world every thousand years or so (see interviews with EGG). Otherwise he could touch the world only in small ways - especially in temples devoted to him, through objects of special interest, or directly to individuals open to his influence. One such was a young Vecna, possibly during a visit to the Yatils. Here I do see Tharizdun playing the long con - hoping to use this powerful mortal in some way.

    More recently Tharizdun discovered the door to his prison swung both ways, as Egon Spengler might put it, and began drawing evil entities into the prison with him, hoping to so swell the prison that it would burst (Strahd etc.). The crowning moment of his plot came when he a) drew Vecna into his prison, and b) convinced Vecna to initiate the ritual in which Vecna could ascend (Vecna Lives, Die Vecna Die). The end goal was to break his prison wide open, either in the escape itself or in the tumult of Vecna's visit to Sigil.

    His goal then wouldn't be corrupting people into his service in itself, but gaining pawns in order to gain his freedom.
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:01 am  

    Chevalier wrote:
    Mydrianor, I've always thought as well that Tharizdun is a good candidate for the Serpent. Though Mystic-Scholar's viewpoint of a non-subtle, direct Tharizdun is also valid, and other suitable interpretations of the Serpent exist.

    IMC, Ravenloft/Domain of Dread is in fact Tharizdun's prison.


    Different Game Settings play it differently. "Canon" sources allow for considerable leeway in this matter. However, when reading my view of this matter, you need to appreciate that, in my game, the Ancient Brethren are an actual, legitimate class of Beings and not the "figment" of Vecna's imagination. That's how I see it and play it. Cool

    So Mok'slyk and Tharizdun are two, distinct "god-like" individuals and not "one and the same." They are of the same Order of Being, but are of different Races, just as men, dwarves and elves are of the same Order, but of different Races. "Canon" sources make clear that anyone can play it anyway they want, to be sure, but I like having "opponents" for the "Gods," rather than just having the "Gods" only opposing each other.

    The Aboleth also serve a "god-like" Order of Beings that are separate and distinct from the "Gods" of men, as well as the "Ancient Brethren." Makes for a "greater" and more diverse Universe. Wink Cool

    You might also want to consider "Maldin's" take on matters, namely his "Sentients" . . . Great and Powerful Beings that actually brought the Universe -- and "the Gods" -- into being. A mere fragment of one of these "Beings" manifest itself into our Universe as a certain . . . Book! Evil Grin


    Mwahahahahahahahahaha!


    http://melkot.com/mysteries/multiverse.html

    Enjoy! Happy Cool
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