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    Canonfire :: View topic - Destruction (spell) Effects
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Destruction (spell) Effects
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:02 pm  
    Destruction (spell) Effects

    So my good friend (fellow player/DM) and I got into a minor debate on this one last night.

    He contests that the Destruction spell (reversal of Resurrection) turns to ash clothing, armor, weapons, and the like (along with the poor victim's body) if the victim fails his/her saving throw.

    I completely disagree. Necromantic spells (reversed or otherwise) affect living matter only (plant, animal, and fungal alike). Equipment would NOT be turned to dust, only the hapless victim's body. All that would be left is a pile of dust and ash in a pile of armor, clothing, and weaponry...

    Agree, or disagree?

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:37 pm  

    Without knowing the wording of the spell in 2nd Ed., I will say that from a purely aesthetic point of view, the clerical Destruction needs something to differentiate it from the wizardly Disintegration. So, I would have it only affect living material, as you say.

    If it helps, the description of Destruction in the Pathfinder rules system specifically says that it does not affect the target's equipment or possessions.

    SirXaris
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:44 pm  

    Tell your friend to also then argue the opposite, meaning that a resurrection spell turns ashes/dust back into armor/clothing/weapons, etc. Razz

    Yes, your friend is utterly wrong. The spell affects the creature targeted, not the creature's possessions. Destruction KILLS stuff, and last time I checked, that bone wand, leather armor, and wool cloak a target might have been carrying/wearing were already dead- they cannot be made "more deaderer". Wink Your interpretation is perfectly correct.
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:53 am  

    Cebrion, I was thinking along those lines of reasoning, too (regarding the Resurrection spell restoring clothing, etc).

    Thanks, fellas, for your input. I chatted with said friend last night and he now agrees with 'our' logic, as well. Happy

    I guess sometimes Lanthorn 'gets it right.' Wink

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:31 am  

    According to the spell listing, a Wish or equivalent spell is recovered to recover the deceased victim. Wondering what constitutes 'equivalent' to a Wish spell, for the implication is that one does exist, or the statement is unnecessary. Does a Resurrection spell embody such powerful magic? I'd think so, granted that success of restoring the individual may be limited depending upon the amount of dust recovered. If not, then I know of nothing equivalent to such powerful wizardly magic that a priest could employ to restore the dead individual.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:25 am  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    According to the spell listing, a Wish or equivalent spell is recovered to recover the deceased victim. Wondering what constitutes 'equivalent' to a Wish spell, for the implication is that one does exist, or the statement is unnecessary.


    That's a good question.

    For 2nd edition, I'd say that it may simply imply direct divine intervention. That would certainly equal the power of a wish spell. Additionally, there may be holy relics with power equal to that of a wish.

    3.x and Pathfinder have several spell-equivalents to the wish
    (e.g. Miracle and True Resurrection). You may be able to get some ideas there.

    SirXaris
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 05, 2007
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    From: The Pomarj

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    Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:37 pm  



    Last edited by BlueWitch on Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:13 pm  

    The "equivalent" would be divine intervention (which can accomplish whatever you want it to, beyond the constraints of a wish spell), or anything that is defined as being "similar to a wish spell". That is just a simple term to describe any suitably mysterious force that a DM would wish (or equivalent) to put in their game. Happy
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    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:02 am  

    My good friend reminded me there's a spell in Bastion of Faith called "Miracle" that might work in this case.

    -Lanthorn
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

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    Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:38 pm  

    The spell description says this:

    "The reverse, destruction, causes the victim of the spell to be instantly dead and turned to dust." Player's Handbook, page 235.

    First, only a living thing can be described as a "victim." Items/objects can be "targets," but not "victims."

    Second, only a living thing can be made "instantly dead." Inanimate objects are not alive and, therefore, cannot be made "dead." You can't "kill" armor or clothing.

    As for the "equivalent" of a Wish spell, 2nd Edition's Wizard's Spell Compendium is over 3000 pages of spells! By comparison, the Dungeon Master's Guide book is only 468 pages and the Player's Handbook is only 258 pages, for a combined total of 726 pages.

    In short, most Dungeon Masters -- of 2nd Edition -- are, themselves, completely unaware of the multitude of spells available to them and their players.

    A diligent -- and oh so patient -- DM can find an "equivalent" spell to the Wish spell if he really wants to.

    That's why, no matter what Edition I play, I use 2nd Edition's Wizards Spell Compendium.

    Hope you had a Happy Midwinter's Night and are having a Merry Needfest!
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