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    Etraika?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:08 pm  
    Etraika?

    While perusing Anna's map of the Suss Forest I noticed 2 locations labelled Etraika. I have been unable to find any information on this. Inquiring minds and all that.
    Forum Moderator

    Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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    Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:04 pm  

    Complete mystery to me and I've researched the Suss before for my own campaign maps. Anna's maps have been known to have personal home campaign locations on them though.
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
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    Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:23 pm  

    Mort is correct, though she is also pretty consistent on putting those on a separate layer in the PDF so you can turn them off/on.... I'd check there first.
    IF looking directly from her link (zoomify)... not sure if her campaign elements are displayed there.

    You might ask her on her site located below or on facebook link.

    Zoomify Link

    Anna's Site

    DLG
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003
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    Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:17 am  

    May have also been a Living Greyhawk location, if applicable. I know I provided Anna with a ton of LG Bandit Kingdoms towns which she kindly added to her map.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:10 pm  

    It's not in Zavoda's index, FWIW.
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    GreySage

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:18 am  

    I've come to accept that there are a lot of references on Anna's maps that are nearly impossible to find any more information on, so the best thing to do is invent a backstory for yourself, or adapt another source. Etraika sounds like a good name for an ettercap settlement, for example.



    From the context, though, it looks like it's an alternate name for the ruins of a Suel temple. I don't know if it's supposed to be the same as the "lost city of the Suloise."
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:19 am  

    Well, if even Rasgon has no definitive answer, then I don't feel so bad about striking out on my search for the details.
    Paladin

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:25 am  

    Going back to when Anna labeled her map grid sections SQxxxx, and Looking at Sq72v8 (posted between Oct & Dec 2012 depending on which correction) The Suss Fens were layered on her personal Campaign Layer, but there was no mention of Etraika.

    Looking at the current Zoomify version on her web site, Etraika shows to be in two places, one north of Treehome and the Other (as Rasgon points out) by the Suel Temple Ruins East of Brenfuss and several days south down the Jewel River from the 1st Etraika location, a Fort/ walled town?

    Her Consolidated Pomarj map (dated Feb 2014) does not contain the Etraika locations.

    http://ghmaps.net/tag/pomarj/

    On her site, her post suggests that it may have been added then….
    Anna Site wrote:
    27 Sept 2015
    “The Places of Mystery in “From the Ashes” as now included as well as some ancient Suel ruins, a ruined Humaniod city in the Lortmils from the before the Hateful Wars.” &” The Pomarj got a couple of typos corrected but I have found some more information about the various humanoid tribes that I didn’t had when I mapped the area back around 2005-2006.”


    Further in her Full Flanness Map, she removes the Etraika near treehome ( I suspect it was a error correction), but still has the Suss Fess and the Etraika near the ruins.

    Since this release of the map was for general community use (596CY) one could presume the following:
    IT is from some LG reference based on the overall map date.
    or
    It didn't make the migration to her personal campaign layer before that layer was removed from the "596CY" version (Since her personal campaign layer is no longer present in that release).
    or
    Lastly, it is possible that this is a fluff she has in her campaign, just as she had done with Bellmeadow in Celene….

    Anna Site wrote:
    13 Jan 2013
    “Added Bellmeadow, then I gave it an Elven name Arnarum using D&D 3.5 elvish from Races of the Wild. It is the birthplace of Queen Yolande.”


    For what its worth..
    DLG
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:27 pm  

    I think Etraika must be Anna's name for the Lost City of the Suloise.

    In Artifact of Evil, Gord and his party leave Badwall and travel into the Suss Forest. The lost ruin is supposed to be in the "trackless tangles of the heart of the Suss Forest." They travel northwest from Badwall, about two leagues each day, until they reach the Jewel River. Then they travel north along the Jewel looking for the Suloise ruins. When they don't find it, they realize the river must have shifted course, and look for a marshy place on the western side of the Jewel, where they finally discover the ruins. Gord believes that when they reach their destination the Kingdom of Celene is no more than a day (that is, 20 leagues) to the west.

    The description in the Living Greyhawk column is clearly based on the one in Artifact of Evil:

    Quote:
    Several days travel northwest of Badwall, they happened upon a number of tumbled stone buildings on a wooded ridge set amid a swamp bordering the Jewel River. The author was certain that the ruins were those of the Lost City.


    As in Artifact of Evil, the city is several days northwest of Badwall in a swamp bordering the Jewel River. The rest of the description matches too: the three-tiered ziggurat, the pre-Suloise ruins, the already plundered central chamber, the green dragon.

    Of the two Etraikas, the northern one is closest to the description there.



    As you can see, it's near a swamp bordering the Jewel. The other one is too close to the Jewel, too close to the edge of the forest, too far to the south of Badwall, and too far from Celene. The northern Etraika isn't northwest of Badwall, as it should be, but on that map Badwall is on the same latitude as the northernmost reach of the Suss; northwest is the Twilight Woods, which seems to be neither the Welkwood nor the Suss. The only other swampy region of the Suss near the Jewel is far to the south of either.

    I think, therefore, Etraika has to be the Lost City, and the southern "Etraika" (note the quotation marks) has to be another set of ruins mistaken for the former city.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:44 pm  
    Re: Etraika?

    SouthernGent wrote:
    While perusing Anna's map of the Suss Forest I noticed 2 locations labelled Etraika. I have been unable to find any information on this. Inquiring minds and all that.


    Hmmm... Anyone thought to ask Anna?
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:20 pm  

    @ Rasgon.... interesting tidbits of background info Rasgon!

    @James
    Yes, I sent her an email and asked her to respond at her convenience and as time allows her.

    @ SouthernGent > you're spot on for that thought.. when one can stump the GH Grandmaster Sage (even for a bit) one must take note..... Wink

    @ General... Still its been a nice "easter egg" type diversion... Happy

    Enjoying it
    DLG
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: Ahlissa

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:29 pm  

    This is a good mystery, and since I've been taking a bit of leave from Greyhawk it took me a little while to try get some grip on this mystery.

    The name Etraika is not of my origin, it comes from a number of LG modules in the Sheldomar Valley MetaRegion series. On my map it appears twice, one as a name for the old Suel Temple ruins and then as a ruined city, which is a mistake. So I'm very grateful for SouthernGent's sharp eyes for spotting it!

    To try and find out what happened and how to best correct it I did some research into it, and there are bit more to this story than I thought. The Suel Temple Ruins I placed on the map very early on more than a decade ago, they are the ruins from Gord's adventures in Artifact of Evil. Long did they sit there and nothing happened, until a few years ago when I started my more dedicated effort to finish the map.

    Paul Newland sent me a first batch of notes and in them where mentioned a old Suel place in Suss named Etraika, so I assumed it was the name for the temple and added that. Then a year or two later when I had much more LG material I found a reference to Etraika as a lost Suel City and added that, committing the grave missing not to check for previous map references in the area. That way the map ended up with two references. That is the story behind how the two Etraikas ended up on the map, but what to do with them?

    This is when the story turns interesting, it seems to be a whole menagerie of old Suel sites in the Suss! In SHE7-05 - Bones of Contention there are mentioned "other Etraikan ruins further east along Troll Creek". Here is the map:


    full size: http://ghmaps.net/special/Etraika1.jpg

    Note the site labeled Etraika along the Black Creek to the north. That is not the sites mentioned in the text in this module. Etraika might have been more than a city, since its name seems to cover several sites in two areas. I can't find much in the forms of leads, the lords of Etraika Kaarl Hartur are only mentioned in the same modules as is the name Etrika itself.

    SHE6-06 - Steeped in Atrocity offers a few more tidbits of information: "The Suel city of Etraika was established in the Suss approximately 1000 years ago. Its major export was slaves", and "The ruler of Etraika was a Mage of Power named Kaarl Hartur. Kaarl was reputed to have knowledge of the abominable
    magicks involved in the Invoked Devastation" and "Etraika was said to have been established on a tributary of the Jewel. The waters were diverted to form a moat around the
    city. Some of the amazing growth in the Suss Forest is probably related to the destruction of Etraika and a huge release of positive
    energy". The map below is from this module:


    full size: http://ghmaps.net/special/Etraika2.jpg

    The story in these LG modules revolves around a "Medallion of Etraika" found on a ghoul at the library site. I haven't read all about it, but I will probably get back to it for some future adventuring.

    So what to do with the map? I'm not really sure yet, might need to do some more reading and then add a lot of the information from these modules. There are creek names as well as the sites themselves. The city is not on the module maps so it is still out there, but where?

    Thank you DLG for bringing this to my attention!
    GreySage

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:47 pm  

    Anna wrote:
    "The Suel city of Etraika was established in the Suss approximately 1000 years ago. Its major export was slaves", and "The ruler of Etraika was a Mage of Power named Kaarl Hartur. Kaarl was reputed to have knowledge of the abominable magicks involved in the Invoked Devastation" and "Etraika was said to have been established on a tributary of the Jewel. The waters were diverted to form a moat around the city. Some of the amazing growth in the Suss Forest is probably related to the destruction of Etraika and a huge release of positive energy".


    This still sounds like they're probably talking about the Lost City of the Suloise, to be honest.

    Thanks for the research, Anna.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:29 pm  

    Thanks, Anna for clearing up the mystery.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:31 pm  

    On a related note, Greyhawk Adventures places a nameless "lost city" "full of treasure and undead" in the Suss 120 miles SW of Elredd (p116).

    IMO, LG's history of Etraika seems ill conceived. How did the Suel establish a full-fledged city halfway across the Flanaess at the very beginning of their migrations? According to the description of the Twisted Forest in GA, the Suel presence in the Wild Coast consisted of roving bands at the time. How did Slerotin, the last Mage of Power, have a contemporary already ruling a city in the central Flanaess with an established slave trade?
    GreySage

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    Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:28 pm  

    vestcoat wrote:
    On a related note, Greyhawk Adventures places a nameless "lost city" "full of treasure and undead" in the Suss 120 miles SW of Elredd (p116).


    Good find. That sounds like it was intended to be the same as the Lost City of the Suel too, but on the LG module's map it seems to correspond best to the ruins adjoining Black Creek, which is about four hexes southeast of Elredd if I'm counting right.

    The Adventure Begins also says that the Lost City of the Suloise was southwest of Elredd, rather than northwest of Badwall as Artifact of Evil and the Living Greyhawk column by Creighton Broadhurst and Woesinger stated, so it sounds like Roger E. Moore was working from the same Greyhawk Adventures reference that you were.

    Quote:
    IMO, LG's history of Etraika seems ill conceived. How did the Suel establish a full-fledged city halfway across the Flanaess at the very beginning of their migrations? According to the description of the Twisted Forest in GA, the Suel presence in the Wild Coast consisted of roving bands at the time. How did Slerotin, the last Mage of Power, have a contemporary already ruling a city in the central Flanaess with an established slave trade?


    The Maure family are supposed to have had some training in "power magic" as well (and they're the ones responsible for casting the Invoked Devastation, if we can believe Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk). Presumably their power was less potent than their master Slerotin's, but their existence still makes Slerotin's claim to be the last of his kind dubious. There's also the archmage Lendore, the legendary founder of the Lendore Isle culture, who seems to have been of similar prowess given the magic involved in the creation of the City of Glass. One interpretation that might help make sense of everything is to assume that Slerotin was the last Mage of Power remaining within the lands of the Suel, which makes sense since his migration was the last to escape, perhaps even a decade after the Rain of Colorless Fire if we're to trust Roger E. Moore. That is, he's the Last Mage of Power because he was the last to leave. If Kaarl Hartur was one of the earliest migrants, perhaps preceding the wars, he might have had time to establish a base from which to sell slaves to the local humanoids, other monstrous races, and/or Flan.

    Another possibility is that he died soon after founding Etraika, before the Rain of Colorless Fire and the creation of Slerotin's tunnel.

    Still another possibility is that Kaarl Hartur's reputation was simply exaggerated. Perhaps he was a minor Suloise mage or illusionist who pretended to knowledge of magic beyond his ken in order to impress his underlings.

    Quote:
    According to the description of the Twisted Forest in GA, the Suel presence in the Wild Coast consisted of roving bands at the time


    I don't see a reference to the Wild Coast there. The text references the northern coast of the Azure Sea, i.e. Keoland and the Principality of Ulek. I assume the Suel transformed into the Twisted Forest were members of House Malhel fleeing the destruction of Valadis, though there are other possibilities. That is, they were a roving band because they were fugitives, not because all of the Suel on the Azure Coast were roving bands.

    The history of Etraika in Steeped in Atrocity fits fairly well with the backstory in The Adventure Begins, which has Suloise clans settling on the Wild Coast around 930 years ago; not 1,000, and it's less likely that Kaarl was a true Mage of Power that late, but it's fairly close:

    Roger E. Moore in The Adventure Begins, page 55 wrote:
    A few Suloise clans settled around the western shores of Woolly Bay, circa 300 OR (just over 340 years before the first Overking was crowned). Most were driven to the isolated coast by infuriated olvenfolk of what are now the Gnarley Forest, Welkwood, and Celene. Along this poor strip of land, the Suloise established the Wild Coast's long traditions of independence, adventuring, and seafaring, as well as treachery, slavery, theft, brigandage, piracy, tracking with humanoids, and so on. Certain humanoid bands encountered by the Suloise in the Lortmils were encouraged by threats or bribery to join the Suloise as partners in their exploitation of the coast; wicked demihumans of every local race also found this trouble-prone region to their liking. A ruined city of the Suloise is said to lie under the roots and boughs of the Suss; it is thought to have been a river port along the Jewel, southwest of Elredd, and was a center of wickedness for centuries before it fell. Descendants of its folk are said to have founded the city of Badwall.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: Ahlissa

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    Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:38 pm  

    Thank you so much for your replies!
    I'm going to remove the northern ruined city and keep the temple ruins in the next update.
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