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    Lanthorn
    GreySage


    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Flametongues Reply with quote

    Wanting some input on this.

    I know "the Rules" make no mention of it, but wondering if Flametongue swords should do extra damage when their blades ignite with fire. I imagine the varying to hit/damage bonuses against various creatures represents an innate susceptibility they have against the dweomercrafting of these blades. What I am wondering is when the Flametongue ability is activated, the blade wreathed in fire, if extra damage shouldn't be figured in as well (d4, d6?). It makes sense to me that it should, but interested in outside opinions.

    -Lanthorn
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    Mystic-Scholar
    GreySage


    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Personally, I have always included a 1d6 fire damage for such swords. And I can attest that the computer game, Baldur's Gate, adds such damage. Therefore, I must conclude that Wizard always intended such damage.
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    Lanthorn
    GreySage


    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I did some research about the damage torches inflict and FINALLY came up with what is written in the 2nd edition Options book: Combat & Tactics. In the description of torches (after the chart delineating damage) it says that +1 point of damage is inflicted if the torch is lit with flame. Otherwise the damage inflicted is bludgeoning damage only.

    -Lanthorn
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    Mystic-Scholar
    GreySage


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    PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Fair enough, only I'd rate that as a comparison between normal fire and the magical fire of the sword.
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    Lanthorn
    GreySage


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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    An added thought:

    The damage caused when the sword is aflame should not allow regeneration! Only magical or normal healing, in my opinion, should be permitted. TROLLS and other regenerators BEWARE!

    -Lanthorn
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    Mystic-Scholar
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That's how I play it. Always have.
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    xo42
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Jan 11, 2009
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    PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Good points about additional fire damage, but I also think additional damage from fire would depend on the amount of time the fire came into contact with the person. As most people have sometime in their life, I have come into brief contact with flames and not been hurt (campfire, cooking, etc.) I have also suffered some damage from fire due to prolonged contact (military related or me just being young and stupid). One sword strike would probably not cause additional damage. However, a mele lasting a few minutes definitely would/should. And that's normal fire, which of course this being magical fire it is far from normal. I think the magical nature of the fire should enhance it's damage a bit. Also, fire loves to spread, especially when coming into contact with flammable substances. PCs are wearing a lot of flammable substances (including being one themselves), so after a round or two of being hit with a flaming sword they should have a few items on fire or at least smoldering.
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    Lanthorn
    GreySage


    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
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    PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DM's ruling applies, of course, but I could see rolling a saving throw EACH AND EVERY TIME a successful hit is scored on flammable items: clothing, fur, etc.

    -Lanthorn
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    Mystic-Scholar
    GreySage


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    PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    xo42 wrote:
    . . . I also think additional damage from fire would depend on the amount of time the fire came into contact with the person. As most people have sometime in their life, I have come into brief contact with flames and not been hurt . . .


    That equates with normal fire versus magical fire, as with a dragon's breath weapon.

    So I grant the damage.
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    Cebrion
    Black Hand of Oblivion
    Black Hand of Oblivion


    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The sword functions as regular torch with regard to shedding light and setting things on fire, and a troll is very much going to have a bad day when fighting somebody using a flame tongue. Never added extra damage to it, as the rules really need to state if it were to do any extra fire damage, which they do not. I wouldn't be adverse to it causing +1 fire damage, but then one could say that is wrapped up in its variable damage bonus. I wouldn't have it cause more damage than that though, as it is just the equivalent of a torch flame and not remotely like a hit from flaming oil/greek fire. Also, as it burns like a torch, one could surely roast someone/something with it. I wouldn't consider it magical fire with regard to items saves, as that is really reserved for fire much more intense than a torch, and definitely allow magic resistance vs. any added fire damage should you add it (if applicable). Always was an awesome weapon to have back in the day.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Mystic-Scholar
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    PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Cebrion wrote:
    . . . as the rules really need to state . . .


    I get you. But to me, they're guidelines, not "rules."

    WotC makes the "rules" when they run their own game. They don't run mine.
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    Wolfling
    Adept Greytalker


    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I always use flametongues pretty much like Cebrion. I guess finding a greater flametongue that does do extra fire damage could be an exciting find for players though.
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    Cebrion
    Black Hand of Oblivion
    Black Hand of Oblivion


    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    Cebrion wrote:
    . . . as the rules really need to state . . .


    I get you. But to me, they're guidelines, not "rules."

    WotC makes the "rules" when they run their own game. They don't run mine.

    That goes without saying, but unless I am grossly mistaken what Lanthorn is usually seeking is rules citations and/or interpretations in order to further clarify/define how he will rule things for himself rather than an "I just do it this way even though nothing says to do so." sort of answer. And so I mostly stick to the former; with an occasional mention of the latter.

    Speaking of the latter, does anyone recall if hitting a target with a lit torch had a chance to light it on fire? Not that a flame tongue is covered in transferable sticky pitch like a torch or anything, but I might add that to the flame tongue....because magic (even if just for cinematic effect Happy)!
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    Lanthorn
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Gents,

    Just for clarity...I am NOT a stickler to rules...yes, guidelines work for me...but I like to inquire from a multitude of people b/c it generates good discussion, and I appreciate the variety of interpretations. Whether I agree with you or not, to ME, is not the point of my endless inquiries. What matters to me is a general conversation circulating around the 'rules' and various perspectives of how we all interpret what is written. As such, I value ALL opinions to any of my posts, and thank each and every one of you who chime in. Ultimately, it helps ME to 'gel' in my head what makes sense in MY game.

    As an answer to your question, Cebrion (mark this on your calendars, people), I would rule a saving throw is needed each and every time a flaming weapon strikes anything flammable.

    thank you again, all,

    Lanthorn
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