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    Canonfire :: View topic - Why aren't we discussing more here?
    Why aren't we discussing more here?

     
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    JasonZavoda
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac


    Joined: May 29, 2018
    Posts: 178

    PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:55 am    Post subject: Why aren't we discussing more here? Reply with quote

    Why aren't we discussiing more here where are the words are saved. I see the posts on facebook roll by like ticker-tape only to be lost and forgotten deep in the depths of the internet void, unorganized, unindexed, unreachable. meWe, discord, chat lines on twitch and youtube, like talking to the wind.

    Here the posts are labeled, the topics searchable, the words held for us, the conversations not lost. Greyhawk is coming alive. I hate to see what we are saying about it lost when the words can be saved.
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    TregMallin
    Apprentice Greytalker


    Joined: Jul 16, 2010
    Posts: 13

    PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    It's not the easiest site to deal with from a phone.

    To tap out anything much more complicated than this message here I'd have to be sitting at a PC, and that's a shrinking amount of my free time.
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    lamashtu
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Jan 13, 2016
    Posts: 113
    Location: SF, CA

    PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Some of us don't like the services mentioned, and some of us don't like mobile apps, and I don't like either. As one of those cranks who values his privacy too much, and doesn't trust free services, I'm watching my ability to remain in touch with communities erode rapidly. There are almost certainly ways to deal with this that would keep all sides of the question reasonably happy...

    For example I bet someone could write an integration for some or all of those services to automate (or at least semi-automate) the process of flagging an interesting message on, say, Discord, and then pushing it here (or wherever) for further discussion, or even archival.

    On the other hand, I've seen really interesting posts here get very little response, and virtually no discussion. And integrating anything with this site is made more difficult due to limited access, an ancient version of the forum software, and the unknown status of the website over the long term.
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    Phalastar
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Apr 18, 2005
    Posts: 69
    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'm reluctant to seem to criticise a site provided for free. However this site is aging and a bit clunky to do much with. I've seen some high quality posts on reddit and other places where it is much easier to post graphical content. This is not the easiest site to post on, but there is some amazing content here, but it seems to be drying up, while I'm finding good Greyhawk content posted in different places on the web.

    Canonfire is still the preminent Greyhawk site I think, but it has for some time now started to feel like it is falling away. It would be a shame to lose that status. I wonder if the owners have considered a re-fresh and maybe a revamp of the underlying model for content management. I know there are tricky issues with Intellectual Property, and this site has always been strict on IP issues, which is fair enough. But it feels like a re-fresh is needed.

    I would love to see a site that does to key things - provide links/news about other greyhawk content posted elsewhere on the web, and allows users to easily post their own content on the site. This content can then be 'scored' by viewers with two criteria (1) how Greyhawk related it is and (2) how good the content is (and maybe a third criteria for quality/editing/finish).

    I'm convinced there are still enough people out there who could produce actual Greyhawk fan content, so why aren't they posting here? Do the restrictions of this website put them off?

    Could we have kickstarter to fund a website update?

    I mean no dis-respect to the owners/moderators of Canonfire. You will always have my gratitude for this site and your efforts in keeping Greyhawk alive. It seems the only way Greyhawk will live on is through its fans, so site like this are essential.
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    lamashtu
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Jan 13, 2016
    Posts: 113
    Location: SF, CA

    PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    There have been various proposals to revitalize the website, including my own offer to host and develop it on my own dime - even to include a contract binding me to ensure the community has access to it - and to relinquish it upon demand. None have come to fruition.

    I've considered scraping the site and cramming it into a static database for searching, similar to, but more capable than my tool for searching Dragon Magazine. However, I don't really want to spend all that effort only to discover some rando believes his/her copyright simply must be protected (referring to non-commercial works here).

    I once suggested a system similar to yours Phalastar. I'm not a creative myself, but I've often wondered if the site simply lacks enough the engagement to support them. When you make something to share, and there's little or no response, it's probably not very encouraging?
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    DriveByPoster
    Apprentice Greytalker


    Joined: Jun 16, 2019
    Posts: 10

    PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi All,

    Long time reader (& borrower of ideas!), first time poster!

    I think that social media stuff is a bit like fast food. Grab a bite when you're hungry but it's soon forgotten. Whereas Canonfire is more like a smorgasboard of deliciously tasty morsels that you can pick at at your leisure & then put back in the fridge to save the rest for later.

    The two mediums serve different requirements & there is room for both (but boo! to Facebook!).

    Also, I have to agree with JasonZavoda on the "Crown Jewels" thread. The genius of Greyhawk is that EGG gave us enough tantalising detail to stimulate the old creative juices but left plenty of elbow room for people to play with it. I think a lot of settings miss this point & just pile on the 'canon lore' which, to my mind, stifles creativity.

    (Apologies for the cross-posting but what can you do with a newb, eh?)
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    vestcoat
    Adept Greytalker


    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 465
    Location: Dantredun, MN

    PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    A macro trend that's impacting everything is people don't read as much.

    I've been posting, blogging, and getting in flame wars about Greyhawk, old video games, politics, and music since 1996 and the internet has never been a bastion of scholarship, but reading comprehension is worse than it was just ten years ago. Attention spans are shorter, people overlook details, misinterpret more, judge and take offense faster, don't read rules or FAQ's, don't read replies, and re-anwser questions more than ever. It's hard to get anyone to read more than a paragraph now. Folks just want something to skim while taking a poop.

    And how can a simple forum compete with shelfies and pictures of polybagged acquisitions that will never be read?
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    lamashtu
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Jan 13, 2016
    Posts: 113
    Location: SF, CA

    PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    vestcoat wrote:
    I've been posting, blogging, and getting in flame wars about Greyhawk, old video games, politics, and music since 1996 and the internet has never been a bastion of scholarship, but reading comprehension is worse than it was just ten years ago.


    rec.history.naval on Usenet was surprisingly good back then. Usenet was pretty insane sometimes, but it had its moments.

    Quote:
    Attention spans are shorter, people overlook details, misinterpret more, judge and take offense faster, don't read rules or FAQ's, don't read replies, and re-anwser questions more than ever. It's hard to get anyone to read more than a paragraph now. Folks just want something to skim while taking a poop.


    Something I've recently realized (because I'm slow probably, or because I've been disengaged for 15 years) is that so much content is at essence, just about the creator. It's like the old problem of people not listening, just waiting for their turn to speak - only now there's truly only one side to the conversation. Until someone takes offense, at which point it's probably best to ruin the life of the offender...
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    vestcoat
    Adept Greytalker


    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 465
    Location: Dantredun, MN

    PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    lamashtu wrote:

    Something I've recently realized (because I'm slow probably, or because I've been disengaged for 15 years) is that so much content is at essence, just about the creator.

    Yeah, there's fewer collaborative zines and forums and more content creators striking out alone to seek fame and fortune. Guys spam five GH facebook groups every time their weekly game convenes to get a few more hits on their Twitch channel. Guys amass collections faster than they can read for shelfies and nerd status points. Bloggers and youtube reviewers more concerned with their likes and followers than their content. We have a thousand redundant splinter groups on facebook, each with its own iron-fisted mod, because everyone wants to be king of their own little hill now that the complications of web design and hosting have been removed. It's like Geocities in the 90's, but way worse. A lot of the blog and youtube reviews I see are just pictures and a synopsis without any analysis or opinion. The best are the FB guys who chime in on threads to say "I own it, but haven't read it" or "I THINK it's about..."
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    lamashtu
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Jan 13, 2016
    Posts: 113
    Location: SF, CA

    PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    vestcoat wrote:

    Yeah, there's fewer collaborative zines and forums and more content creators striking out alone to seek fame and fortune. Guys spam five GH facebook groups every time their weekly game convenes to get a few more hits on their Twitch channel. Guys amass collections faster than they can read for shelfies and nerd status points. Bloggers and youtube reviewers more concerned with their likes and followers than their content. We have a thousand redundant splinter groups on facebook, each with its own iron-fisted mod, because everyone wants to be king of their own little hill now that the complications of web design and hosting have been removed. It's like Geocities in the 90's, but way worse. A lot of the blog and youtube reviews I see are just pictures and a synopsis without any analysis or opinion. The best are the FB guys who chime in on threads to say "I own it, but haven't read it" or "I THINK it's about..."


    Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. But I won't actually read it - just let it pile up next my issues of Proceedings, and random Kickstarted gaming materials. Most of my time goes into telling those rotten kids to get off my lawn. ;)
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    abysslin
    CF Admin
    CF Admin


    Joined: Oct 14, 2003
    Posts: 586
    Location: Rel Astra

    PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Oh wow it is Jason! Just dropped in to say I still use the index all the time, man. Thx for your contribution to the hawkers community.
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