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The First Couple of Printings of B2

 
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: The First Couple of Printings of B2 Reply with quote

I just read that the first couple printings of B2 use old combat rules (OD&D and blue Basic box) and 3x3 alignments. Does anyone have a copy of one of these editions and could tell us if there is anything else about these printings that relates to AD&D and/or Greyhawk?
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much none of it relates to Greyhawk, though people do take some of the OD&D mateial and insert it therein; Blackmoor being a prime example. It is, however, not the same Blackmoor. There are surely some similarities as the Greyhawk Blackmoor seems to be an homage to Arneson's OD&D Blackmoor.

As to the rules, they have much in common with AD&D. AD&D is called *Advanced* Dungeons & Dragons for a reason. Wink AD&D was built off of what the OD&D Red and Blue boxes are. For all of its comparative simplicity, OD&D has very much in common with AD&D and is very fun to play.
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Comparison with B1 Reply with quote

I thought I'd ask because B1 has references to "Fighthing Men" and the demi-humans can still be of a variety of classes like OD&D and AD&D and B1 has suggestions on where to place the module. In short, I was wondering if there were any such suggestions in these original printings of B2. Gygax never seemed to do anything else with the Basic line of D&D so when the other day I read that the original printings of B2 had these AD&D and OD&D references, it made sense to me. In fact, it almost seems strange that so many people want to change the evil chapel when inserting it into their Greyhawk settings because all the other things Gygax did fit Greyhawk or outright referenced Greyhawk-specific material.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure that I explained that very well. B1 and B2 were both made in a time when TSR must have been thinking that Basic was just the first three levels of OD&D while at the same time Gygax was designing AD&D. Looking back, they could have called AD&D "D&D 2nd Edition" and Basic "D&D Intro." ..At least for what they intended (and not where the games ended up).
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grodog
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the time B2 was published (1979), OD&D had been "retired" to some degree in favor of AD&D, and was supplanted by the Holmes Basic set (1977) and the Moldvay Basic set (1980). B1 was published in 1978, and was the first module intended for use with the Holmes Basic set, so it's closer in spirit and tone to that set than B2 is. The earliest printings of both modules mention that they're compatible with AD&D (much like the 1980 folio does). See http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html for more info/details on B1-2.

B1 contains some comments about where to set the module in GH on page 6 ("Note: In the mythical WORLD OF GREYHAWK (available from TSR) the stronghold can be considered within any one of the following lands---the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh, or the Theocracy of the Pale") but B2 doesn't have anything of the sort, alas.
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Cave of the Unknown Reply with quote

Surely there must have been lots of people that took the suggestion in B2 to create something in the Cave of the Unknown. I'd be interested in seeing what people created if you want to post your own Cave of the Unknown creation on line for download somewhere.

I think it would be fun to have various versions of the Cave of the Unknown so each time the players went back to the cave it was someone else's version of it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Cave of the Unknown Reply with quote

Raymond wrote:
I think it would be fun to have various versions of the Cave of the Unknown so each time the players went back to the cave it was someone else's version of it.


That sounds like fun :D
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chatdemon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Cave of the Unknown Reply with quote

Raymond wrote:
Surely there must have been lots of people that took the suggestion in B2 to create something in the Cave of the Unknown.


A lot of DMs I've known over the years, as well as Greyhawk canon (via the Return to the Keep on the Borderlands adventure module for 2nd ed AD&D, which places the B2 area map in southern Yeomanry, by the way) placed the Quasqeton dungeon, from B1 In Search of the Unknown in B2's Cave of the Unknown.

One project I always wanted to tackle was expanding and connecting Quasqeton and the Caves of Chaos (via the caved in tunnel in the SW corner of the caves) into something of a megadungeon, but I've never quite gotten around to it.
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Cave Reply with quote

I had mentioned two homegrown Caves of the Unknown in the 2nd Edition area but thought I would include it here:

THE CAVE OF THE UNKNOWN
BY DANIEL R. COLLINS

and:

Adventure Module BF1
Morgansfort

Give me a little time and I'll post a link to the Cave I've had since 1983. I need to scan the map somehow....
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Argghhhhh!!!! Reply with quote

It's gone. I've kept it for almost 30 years and now I can't find it!
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Scottenkainen
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject: Hackmaster... Reply with quote

Hi all,

In Hackmaster, their versions of modules B1 and B2 are linked much more closely than the original versions, though some sort of link was often assumed with the original versions.

Module B2 was not only not written for AD&D, it wasn't even updated for the Otus-covered basic rules book it was sold with. All of the monsters' hp, for example, seem to have been rolled on d6 instead of d8...

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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grodog
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Argghhhhh!!!! Reply with quote

Raymond wrote:
It's gone. I've kept it for almost 30 years and now I can't find it!


Give it time, I'm sure it'll turn up: I lost my original EGG and RJK correspondence for about 8 years, and found it a few years ago :D
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grodog wrote:
B1 contains some comments about where to set the module in GH on page 6 ("Note: In the mythical WORLD OF GREYHAWK (available from TSR) the stronghold can be considered within any one of the following lands---the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh, or the Theocracy of the Pale") but B2 doesn't have anything of the sort, alas.


I wasn't aware of that little tidbit in B1. B1 was one of the first adventures(and with caverns no less) I ever played through, and that was prior to seeing anything for Greyhawk. I DM'd my brother through B1 while we sat in the back of a station wagon on a road trip from Southern California up to Wyoming/Montana and back.

Good times. Cool
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: 10 Years! Reply with quote

The map I was looking for turned up during a move a few months ago! I was so surprised! The key is with it. If you want to see what a 11 or 12 year old kid did in about 1982/1984 with a single page map, blue dragon, statues, and a room that has "Time Portal Back to Our Time + Winner" then send me an e-mail. I gotta wonder if we were watching "Dungeons & Dragons" on TV at the time.
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