Username Password
  or Create an Account
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Greyhawk Wiki

#greytalk-discord
    JOIN THE CHAT
    Canonfire :: View topic - Secret Ruler of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy??
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Secret Ruler of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy??
    Author Message
    Novice

    Joined: Jan 17, 2009
    Posts: 2


    Send private message
    Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:34 pm  
    Secret Ruler of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy??

    OK, so we all know that Ivid V was the Overking of the Great Kingdom, but I am getting ready for a new Greyhawk campaign (starting tonight with a solo session for my brother!) and I am setting the campain in 576 CY, and I'm basing it on the original 190 Folio and the 1983 boxed set, so I've been reading through through all the material to refresh myself.

    (two months ago a good friend of mine bought a big lot of old D&D books from a guy and was sorting through them to sell off, and in the stuff he came across TWO copies of the 1980 World of Greyhawk Folio, and a copy of the 1983 boxed set... all in REALLY excellent condition!!! And, knowing how much I love Greyhawk, he set them aside and when I next saw him he asked me how much I would pay for them. I was flabbergasted at the books and their quality, told him how long I had wanted these books, and immediately looked them up on eBay and showed him the prices they were going for, and told him that I wouldn't be able to afford them right then but would try to save up to pay him what they were worth. Well, instead of that he said I could have them for TWENTY DOLLARS EACH! I live on social security disability income and he knows how tight my money situation is. I thanked him profusely and became the proud owner of the 1980 World of Greyhawk Folio and the 1983 World of Greyhawk Boxed Set, in marvelous condition and complete with all the maps and everything except the box! He even threw in an old Dragon magazine insert of Greyhawk weather patterns that had also been in the lot of books. This wealth of original Greyhawk material is what inspired me to run this campaign!)

    So anyway, during my read-through of the 1983 boxed set I came upon a very interesting thing while reading the rulers section on page 17 of the Glossography; on this page it lists the name, class, and level of each of the rulers of the various realms of the Flanaess, each of which match up with the names listed in the Overview of Political Divisions in the Atlas of the Flanaess... with one exception. In the Atlas, the ruler of the Great Kingdom is listed as:

    "His Celestial Transcendency, the Overking of Aerdy, Grand Prince Ivid V, etc, etc... "

    But in the Glossography the ruler of the Great Kingdom is listed as:
    "?, C 7/MU 12."

    I do not believe this to be a typo, and there is no indication that this Cleric/Magic-User is meant to be Ivid V. I believe instead that this was meant to tell the reader that Grand Prince Ivid V was a mere puppet, and the TRUE ruler of the Great Kingdom was a secret Cleric/Magic-User (dual-classed Human, I presume) who ruled the Great Kingdom of Aerdy from behind the throne, probably a Hextorite knowing the ethnic makeup of

    Has anyone else noticed this little hidden gem in the 1983 boxed set? Does my assumption make sense to anyone else? Are there any other hidden goodies and adventure hooks buried in the old setting material that anyone has ferreted out? (I also want to eventually use the idea of the lost Old Suloise city hidden somewhere in the Suss Forest for a nice high-level dungeon ruin for the PCs to explore.) I plan on going forward with this idea of the Great Kingdom being secretly controlled by a hidden power behind the throne, having a powerful Priest of Hextor being the true power manipulating Ivid for his own ends and for the greater power of the Church of Hextor. This would even play into what happened to Ivid and the nobility of the Great Kingdom during and after the Wars, if I do decide to go that route, with all the Animus shenanigans and so forth.

    Ivid could get tired of all the manipulations and decide to take power into his own hands beginning with a campaign of assassination throughout the highest ranks of the Priesthood of Hextor to get rid of those who would use him, starting with the "secret ruler." But then the Church of Hextor would bring him back using their newly-created secret ritual to create the very first Animus. Then, rather than Ivid ordering all the killing and Animus-making, it would instead be the "secret ruler" who does it, turning the highest levels of the nobility into Animuses (Animi?) under his direct control (since the Animus is a specially-designed Hextorite creation) securing himself a continued power base as the Chief Animus with the full power of Hextor behind him. And then once the full ranks of the higher nobility are all Animi under his command, the Hextorite "secret ruler" could step out of the shadows and eliminate Ivid, taking charge of the Great Kingdom and turning it into an Undead Theocracy (Divinecrocracy?) dedicated to the total subjugation of the Flanaess, and unending undead war for the Eternal Glory of Hextor.

    The whole thing could turn into an Oerthly Zombie Apocalypse scenario, only in this case it would be even worse for any survivors since the zombies wouldn't be just mindless wandering hordes, but would be under the control of powerful free-willed undead warriors and generals!

    I think it could make for some very interesting results...[/b]
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1379
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

    Send private message
    Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:39 pm  
    Re: Secret Ruler of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy??

    Izar_Talon wrote:
    I do not believe this to be a typo, and there is no indication that this Cleric/Magic-User is meant to be Ivid V. I believe instead that this was meant to tell the reader that Grand Prince Ivid V was a mere puppet, and the TRUE ruler of the Great Kingdom was a secret Cleric/Magic-User (dual-classed Human, I presume) who ruled the Great Kingdom of Aerdy from behind the throne, probably a Hextorite knowing the ethnic makeup of


    I think that you can definitely run with this concept, and interpret it in lots of interesting ways.

    FWIW, Rob Kuntz created Xaene/Zayene as the figure who's the power behind the throne of Ivid, and detailed his machinations in his series of four Maze of Zayene modules from the late 1980s. They're well-worth picking up if you're interested in Gygax/Kuntz-driven Greyhawk content, and you can buy them pretty affordably from eBay and/or NobleKnight (in both d20/3e and RJK's original AD&D editions).

    For some alternative interpretations of that same power play, check out Ivid the Undying @ https://www.acaeum.com/library/library.html (1 PDF and 1 big map). Carl Sargent build upon many of the same foundations that Gary and Rob defined in Greyhawk, but also brought his own vision to the setting as well (From the Ashes and the later WGR books @ http://www.tsrarchive.com/gh/gh-wgr.html ). You can buy the WGR books from DriveThruRPG as PDF or POD titles.

    Allan.
    _________________
    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3083
    From: Michigan

    Send private message
    Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:44 am  

    Karoolck would be a good candidate for power behind the throne, too.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2002
    Posts: 18


    Send private message
    Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:52 am  

    There's plenty of jockeying for power within the Imperial Court (Xaene and Karoolck being just 2 of the players/former players).

    Carl Sargent referenced this though in the WGR7 Ivid the Undying stat block for Ivid: "He has long abandoned his service as a priest of Hextor—a profession that had been forced on him by his father as a form of disciplining. He can no longer use priest spells."

    Seems as good an explanation as any. Ivid's madness (and rumoured Hellish parentage) go a good way to explaining the ? in the 1983 folio.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1379
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

    Send private message
    Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:27 pm  
    Re: Secret Ruler of the Great Kingdom of Aerdy??

    Izar_Talon wrote:
    In the Atlas, the ruler of the Great Kingdom is listed as:

    "His Celestial Transcendency, the Overking of Aerdy, Grand Prince Ivid V, etc, etc... "

    But in the Glossography the ruler of the Great Kingdom is listed as:
    "?, C 7/MU 12."

    I do not believe this to be a typo, and there is no indication that this Cleric/Magic-User is meant to be Ivid V. I believe instead that this was meant to tell the reader that Grand Prince Ivid V was a mere puppet, and the TRUE ruler of the Great Kingdom was a secret Cleric/Magic-User (dual-classed Human, I presume) who ruled the Great Kingdom of Aerdy from behind the throne


    I just remembered that the Folio lists the rulers that are dual-classed human NPCs by using two slashes between the classes, as with these entries:

    - Geoff: Fighter//Illusionist, 13th//15th level
    - Great Kingdom: Cleric//Magic-user, 7th//12th level
    - Ket: Cleric//Fighter, 3rd//14th level
    - Rel Astra: Assassin//Magic-user, 6th//9th level
    - Shield Lands: Cleric//lFighter, 7th//10th level
    - South Province: Thief//Fighter, 5th//11th level
    - Sterich: Fighter//Thief///Bard, 7th//8th///9th level (note the third slashes for the bard class and levels!)
    - Tiger Nomads: Illusionist//Fighter, 3rd//11th level

    However, the boxed set dropped this distinction for the ruler entries; so, perhaps since the GK ruler is listed with a single slash, the boxed set suggests a demi-human power-behind-the-throne---as opposed to an editing snafu! ;)

    Allan.
    _________________
    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html


    Last edited by grodog on Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2781
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Karoolck would be a good candidate for power behind the throne, too.


    "The mortal archmage Karoolck, servant and secret master of Ivid V . . ." Surprised

    https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/index.php?title=Baalzephon

    "Ivid V was . . . forced into the priesthood of Hextor by his father, Ivid IV . . ."

    "After the disappearance of Ivid's court wizard Xaene, the creator of the Fiend-Knights, the wizard Karoolck replaced him. Kalroolck's rise to power coincided with Ivid contracting a terrible wasting disease." Shocked

    https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/index.php?title=Ivid_V

    So, not a willing servant of Hextor and . . . all the makings of a pawn.

    Sounds like a plan.
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1379
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

    Send private message
    Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:16 pm  

    Or perhaps Karoolck is Xaene's patsy ;)

    Allan.
    _________________
    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
    Posts: 2781
    From: South-Central Pennsylvania

    Send private message
    Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:37 am  

    grodog wrote:
    Or perhaps Karoolck is Xaene's patsy


    Noooooo! Shocked

    Ivid V, the pawn of . . . a pawn? Shocked Evil Grin
    _________________
    Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
    Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum


    Forums ©


    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.29 Seconds