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    Divine Offspring

     
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    Skech
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Feb 01, 2005
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:11 pm    Post subject: Divine Offspring Reply with quote

    An interesting question came up in my game. One of my players asked, "Do any of the demigods residing on Oerth have children? In particular what about the Old One, Iuz?"

    Having looked, I can't find any reference to Iuz' Offspring. Can anyone help?

    Please and thank you! Happy
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    rasgon
    GreySage


    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3003
    Location: Michigan

    PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't think there's anything in canon that suggests Iuz has offspring. He has many half-siblings, aunts, and uncles in his extended family, and many concubines and consorts, but as far as I know no children have been mentioned. That doesn't mean you can't give him children, of course. Maybe Captain Xendros, the tiefling merchant who appears in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, is Iuz's daughter; there's no indication that this is true, but it could be true if you wanted. Her ancestry isn't otherwise explained, and she looks a bit like Iuz. Maybe a player character could even be one of the Old One's offspring.

    Artifact of Evil by Gary Gygax said this (page 90): "It was time to visit his seraglio. Iuz had many concubines—human, semi-human, and demon-spawn as well. Who could say which he enjoyed most—beautiful, or horrifyingly malformed and ugly? Mammalian or reptilian? Iuz was a cambion, after all, the bastard son of a demon mated with a woman. In him, the worst of demon and human had combined to form the Ancient One, The Old, Iuz, Lord of Evil. He was full of hatred and malign purpose, and several hours spent desporting himself in the seraglio only served to increase his tension. Perverse and sadistic pleasures had served no purpose in this regard."

    Iuz the Evil by Carl Sargent said, "Of the least tanar'ri, alu-demons and succubi are among Iuz's consorts and he uses them to snare or entrap his enemies. Such creatures perform this role for Iuz in the Bandit Kingdoms, Tenh, and other far-flung areas. They use their powers of disguise and persuasion to slay enemies of Iuz by stealth or magic. Iuz treats these fiends more indulgently, but they know who is their master."

    Zuggtmoy has also been called Iuz's lover (for example, Artifact of Evil, page 329, and Dragon #337, page 47), but although various fungal creatures have been described figuratively as Zuggtmoy's children (for example, the scarlet children from Dungeon #85), there's no evidence that Zuggtmoy can reproduce like a member of the animal kingdom would. She's a demon, though, so anything goes really. One lesser demon lord, Yibyiru, the Rancid Lady of Bitter Bile, is said to possibly be Zuggtmoy's daughter or mother, but there's no indication her father is Iuz, or even that she has a father. Zuggtmoy may reproduce solely via spores, like a fungus, for all we know. But it's not impossible that Yibyiru is Iuz's daughter. She might as easily be the daughter of Haagenti, the demon lord of alchemy.

    Kord definitely has many half-divine children, though, as mentioned in Dragon #87. Kayden, from WG7, is the only one to be named.

    Some of the monsters from C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamochan might be the children of demigods, such as the Child of Zotzilaha and the sacred offspring of Chitza-Atlan.
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    rasgon
    GreySage


    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    rasgon wrote:
    One lesser demon lord, Yibyiru, the Rancid Lady of Bitter Bile, is said to possibly be Zuggtmoy's daughter or mother, but there's no indication her father is Iuz, or even that she has a father. Zuggtmoy may reproduce solely via spores, like a fungus, for all we know. But it's not impossible that Yibyiru is Iuz's daughter. She might as easily be the daughter of Haagenti, the demon lord of alchemy.


    I've become enamored of the idea that Yibyiru is Iuz's daughter, born in the years before her father's imprisonment. Key is Dragon #337 calling Yibyiru the daughter or senile mother of Zuggtmoy. The line implies, at least, that she looks extremely ancient—as Iuz the Old does half the time, and as Iggwilv does in her true form. The title "Lady of Bitter Bile" brings to mind Iuz's spittle attack, but if "bitter" isn't just an unnecessary adjective (since bile is rarely sweet), but reflects her emotional state as well, wouldn't her bitterness be explained by the fact that despite being three-quarters demon, she somehow inherited her father's mortality, forcing her into a physical and mental decline after a century of life even if she's unable to actually die?

    According to Dragon #337, Yibyiru's speciality is said to be poison so deadly it can harm even other demons. Having her be the offspring of Haagenti, the alchemist demon, (who is said to be an ally of Zuggtmoy's) might explain that, but she could have been apprenticed to Haagenti whether or not she's connected to him by blood.

    I think if Zuggtmoy has an actual parent (assuming she didn't simply coalesce fully-formed from the malevolence of the Abyss, or that she wasn't literal fungus that slowly became sentient after absorbing the essence of the demonic corpses it grew on) it was likely something more primal, like Cyth-V'sug from Pathfinder.

    Quote:
    Maybe Captain Xendros, the tiefling merchant who appears in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, is Iuz's daughter; there's no indication that this is true, but it could be true if you wanted. Her ancestry isn't otherwise explained, and she looks a bit like Iuz. Maybe a player character could even be one of the Old One's offspring.


    I'm not sure how this could possibly work if Captain Xendros is an adult in 576, but she might be a descendant of Iuz, I suppose. Unless she, too, is somehow a century old...

    I think it would work better to have Captain Xendros be the daughter of an alu-demon and one of the older Boneheart members, like Ormuz or Patch or Kermin or Null, or the daughter of the cambion Kerzinen of Rookroost (Iuz the Evil, page 98).
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    tarelton
    Adept Greytalker


    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I always though that Iuz would treat any offspring like Saturn did...

    After all, Iuz is constantly plotting against his sire, Grazzt, why would he create another plotter to threaten himself...
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    mindseye
    Journeyman Greytalker


    Joined: Oct 09, 2014
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That brings up an interesting question. Would he know? I mean, numerous sources point to Iuz being "generous" with his procreational materials. Is there some reason to believe he would know instantly? It's not unreasonable to assume those in his harem are prisoners, but would he notice if one went missing?

    Of course, if she were a favorite, that would make her departure more noticeable. Also chances of others ratting the mother to be out.

    Another detail would be age. Any direct descendants of Iuz would either be in their 60s or 70s (before imprisonment), or 5 or 6 (after imprisonment) So maybe there's a child out there who must be protected until she is old enough to rid Oerth of her father's existence.
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    rasgon
    GreySage


    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3003
    Location: Michigan

    PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    tarelton wrote:
    I always though that Iuz would treat any offspring like Saturn did...

    After all, Iuz is constantly plotting against his sire, Grazzt, why would he create another plotter to threaten himself...


    I thought the same, but that strategy didn't even work reliably for Saturn. In the end, as with all things Greyhawk, it comes down to whether it's something you want in your game.

    It also depends on when your game is set. A child born in 570 could easily be a player character in 591.
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    jamesdglick
    Grandmaster Greytalker


    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1239
    Location: Clarksville, TN

    PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    rasgon wrote:
    ...
    Quote:
    Maybe Captain Xendros, the tiefling merchant who appears in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, is Iuz's daughter; there's no indication that this is true, but it could be true if you wanted. Her ancestry isn't otherwise explained, and she looks a bit like Iuz. Maybe a player character could even be one of the Old One's offspring.


    I'm not sure how this could possibly work if Captain Xendros is an adult in 576, but she might be a descendant of Iuz, I suppose. Unless she, too, is somehow a century old...


    -Tieflings seem to mature a little more slowly than humans, but age as quickly after that:

    http://legacy.aonprd.com/advancedRaceGuide/ageHeightWeight.html

    If a half-demon is they offspring of a demon and a mortal, and a tiefling is the offspring of a half-demon and a mortal, then Xendros could be Iuz's granddaughter or, depending on how heredity works, or if tere was a tiefling plus tiefling mating in her background, maybe even a great granddaughter or great-great granddaughter.
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