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    Etterboek and House Langmuir questions

     
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    I am trying to piece together House Langmuir. The lore says that they have a manor inside the city of Verbobonc and have lands in the viscounty.

    "House Langmuir and its small parcel of land are situated right in the heartland of the Viscounty, befitting the status of such a noble and regal house."

    I assume that most nobles not only have a manor inside the city walls but also a family estate in the lands they own. But I am unable to find any information exactly where these lands are located and which towns they own. Also, where the family estate is located. I originally placed the Langmuir estate in Etterboek but there is no information about Etterboek beyond a simply paragraph.

    Does anyone have further information on this house and lands?

    Also, same problem with House Milinious. Maybe Penwick..but I out House Asbbury just outside of it. ANy thoughts?
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    JasonZavoda
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    StylinLP38 wrote:
    I am trying to piece together House Langmuir. The lore says that they have a manor inside the city of Verbobonc and have lands in the viscounty.

    "House Langmuir and its small parcel of land are situated right in the heartland of the Viscounty, befitting the status of such a noble and regal house."

    I assume that most nobles not only have a manor inside the city walls but also a family estate in the lands they own. But I am unable to find any information exactly where these lands are located and which towns they own. Also, where the family estate is located. I originally placed the Langmuir estate in Etterboek but there is no information about Etterboek beyond a simply paragraph.

    Does anyone have further information on this house and lands?

    Also, same problem with House Milinious. Maybe Penwick..but I out House Asbbury just outside of it. ANy thoughts?


    I haven't noted anything about these places. Where does this info come from?
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    A bunch of Living Greyhawk modules state this. There is a full write up on that house and the lands. But not much detail on the exact borders and where the manor is located in their lands. A few of the modules did have a Political boundry map that helped. But still need to know which village their manor is at. If at all.
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    rasgon
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    StylinLP38 wrote:
    I am trying to piece together House Langmuir. The lore says that they have a manor inside the city of Verbobonc and have lands in the viscounty.

    "House Langmuir and its small parcel of land are situated right in the heartland of the Viscounty, befitting the status of such a noble and regal house."

    I assume that most nobles not only have a manor inside the city walls but also a family estate in the lands they own. But I am unable to find any information exactly where these lands are located and which towns they own. Also, where the family estate is located. I originally placed the Langmuir estate in Etterboek but there is no information about Etterboek beyond a simply paragraph.

    The same source says that House Langmuir also has designs on bringing Lady Asbury's land into theirs, so perhaps House Langmuir's fief also borders Lady Asbury's fief.
    Does anyone have further information on this house and lands?

    Also, same problem with House Milinious. Maybe Penwick..but I out House Asbbury just outside of it. ANy thoughts?


    Journal of the Wanderer, written by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad, goes into more detail.

    Lady Asbury's borders are described this way: "The grant, situated in the east-central part of the Viscounty, stretched from the Gnarley Forest near the Fens of Tor west for nearly 40 miles and north to south nearly 20 miles and included a parcel known as Asbury Meadow. A manor house was constructed within the Meadow and the house took its name from that location."

    According to The Walker's Guide to Verbobonc written by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad, Lady Asbury's domain includes Cienega Valley in the Kron Hills, northwest of Hommlet. The mayor of Cienega Valley is Marcus Asbury. However, Lord Milinous claims a portion of Lady Asbury's domain, making Cienega Valley a border town between the two fiefs.

    Journal of the Wanderer says that Simon Milinous's manor is known as Griffon Manor.

    According to this website, Lord Langmuir rules the domain of Mol, which includes Etterboek and DeChutte's Ford, which places his fief directly north of Cienega Valley.

    According to the same site, Lord Milinous rules Penwick immediately to the east of Lord Langmuir's domain.
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thanks for the tidbits there Rasgon. I didn't have some of this info. I already created an interactive map of all Verbobonc locations on World Anvil. But I can make changes easily.

    Lady Asbury's borders are described this way: "The grant, situated in the east-central part of the Viscounty, stretched from the Gnarley Forest near the Fens of Tor west for nearly 40 miles and north to south nearly 20 miles and included a parcel known as Asbury Meadow. A manor house was constructed within the Meadow and the house took its name from that location."

    ---I placed Asbury Manor just east of Penwick and had Penwick in her lands. I guess I better draw her lands north border a little more south then. I have a website that says Emridy Meadows further north east of Penwick..so thats confusing.

    According to The Walker's Guide to Verbobonc written by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad, Lady Asbury's domain includes Cienega Valley in the Kron Hills, northwest of Hommlet. The mayor of Cienega Valley is Marcus Asbury. However, Lord Milinous claims a portion of Lady Asbury's domain, making Cienega Valley a border town between the two fiefs. Journal of the Wanderer says that Simon Milinous's manor is known as Griffon Manor.

    ---I saw that statement that Milinious owned half of Cienega Valley and that Griffon Manor was "somewhere". No exact place. So I placed it north of Penwick. But maybe since Penwick is a major village that is where Black Griffon and Milinious seat of power should be.

    According to this website, Lord Langmuir rules the domain of Mol, which includes Etterboek and DeChutte's Ford, which places his fief directly north of Cienega Valley.

    --I saw that Lands of Langmuir was those 3 towns but there is no info where their manor is placed...Etterboek seemed to be the bigger town so I placed it there. Unless it should be in that town Mol for a reason...
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't see the estate of Langmuir being in Mol. As you can see in the description below. Etterboak is bigger and more prosperous.

    Quote:
    This small town of about 700 people straddles a dirty red tributary of the Nigb's Run . Upstream mining by the local lord has caused significant erosion in the hills surrounding the Mol Run. The high iron content of the earth gives the stream its muddy red color, but while it seems dirty, it in fact teems with large, ochre-colored catfish.

    The township is relatively peaceful, although on the poor side. The people live off the land, and are only moderately taxed by their lords who seem to have learned from their past mistakes. The current Lord Langmuir is quite unhappy with the economic state of the township, especially regarding the constant refusal of the Kron Hills gnomes to do business in Mol. This is exacerbated by the failure of the rich southern mines, which were the township's only true source of wealth. Since most travel passes along the High Road through Etterboek , Mol has gradually experienced a decline in prosperity and population. The current lord is anxious to settle this problem, especially the dispute with the gnomes; however, he is too proud to apologize for his family's actions and refuses to return the now worthless southern mines to the gnomes who demand both.
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    JasonZavoda
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    rasgon wrote:
    StylinLP38 wrote:
    I am trying to piece together House Langmuir. The lore says that they have a manor inside the city of Verbobonc and have lands in the viscounty.

    "House Langmuir and its small parcel of land are situated right in the heartland of the Viscounty, befitting the status of such a noble and regal house."

    I assume that most nobles not only have a manor inside the city walls but also a family estate in the lands they own. But I am unable to find any information exactly where these lands are located and which towns they own. Also, where the family estate is located. I originally placed the Langmuir estate in Etterboek but there is no information about Etterboek beyond a simply paragraph.

    The same source says that House Langmuir also has designs on bringing Lady Asbury's land into theirs, so perhaps House Langmuir's fief also borders Lady Asbury's fief.
    Does anyone have further information on this house and lands?

    Also, same problem with House Milinious. Maybe Penwick..but I out House Asbbury just outside of it. ANy thoughts?


    Journal of the Wanderer, written by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad, goes into more detail.

    Lady Asbury's borders are described this way: "The grant, situated in the east-central part of the Viscounty, stretched from the Gnarley Forest near the Fens of Tor west for nearly 40 miles and north to south nearly 20 miles and included a parcel known as Asbury Meadow. A manor house was constructed within the Meadow and the house took its name from that location."

    According to The Walker's Guide to Verbobonc written by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad, Lady Asbury's domain includes Cienega Valley in the Kron Hills, northwest of Hommlet. The mayor of Cienega Valley is Marcus Asbury. However, Lord Milinous claims a portion of Lady Asbury's domain, making Cienega Valley a border town between the two fiefs.

    Journal of the Wanderer says that Simon Milinous's manor is known as Griffon Manor.

    According to this website, Lord Langmuir rules the domain of Mol, which includes Etterboek and DeChutte's Ford, which places his fief directly north of Cienega Valley.

    According to the same site, Lord Milinous rules Penwick immediately to the east of Lord Langmuir's domain.


    Interesting website. I wish this was a print book. The map shows the problem with naming towns and perspective size. It would have better, I belive, to number the towns and have a side bar of the names to avoid map clutter (and easier to note all the information for reference work).

    Is this viewed as an alternate Oerth campaign or is it published material that will be used to create future WotC Greyhawk material?

    What should this website be called? Are 'Journal of the Wanderer' and 'The Walkers Guide to Verbobonc' available as website or printed work?
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    rasgon
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    JasonZavoda wrote:
    Is this viewed as an alternate Oerth campaign or is it published material that will be used to create future WotC Greyhawk material?


    Living Greyhawk was a Greyhawk campaign, no more official than any other.

    Quote:
    Are 'Journal of the Wanderer' and 'The Walkers Guide to Verbobonc' available as website or printed work?


    They were .pdf files hosted by the Living Greyhawk Verbobonc Triad website back in the day, and I saved them to my hard drive.

    You can find Journal of the Wanderer here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/jy4huqssgsgiub5/Journal_of_the_Wanderer.pdf/file

    The Walker's Guide to Verbobonc is here: https://www.mediafire.com/file/xx2uz8set0wwlrz/Walkers_Guide_to_Verbobonc.pdf/file
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    JasonZavoda
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    rasgon wrote:
    JasonZavoda wrote:
    Is this viewed as an alternate Oerth campaign or is it published material that will be used to create future WotC Greyhawk material?


    Living Greyhawk was a Greyhawk campaign, no more official than any other.


    Is it as official as "From the Ashes" or ther "City of Greyhawk" boxed set?
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    rasgon
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    JasonZavoda wrote:

    Is it as official as "From the Ashes" or ther "City of Greyhawk" boxed set?


    My understanding is that Triad stuff ranks lower. It's just one campaign, albeit one that a lot of people played in.
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    JasonZavoda
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Etterboek and House Langmuir questions Reply with quote

    rasgon wrote:
    JasonZavoda wrote:

    Is it as official as "From the Ashes" or ther "City of Greyhawk" boxed set?


    My understanding is that Triad stuff ranks lower. It's just one campaign, albeit one that a lot of people played in.


    Interesting. Id still like to index all this stuff. I believe that WotC still has rights to publish the adventures but that some of the triad work was privately done.
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Actually, I was reading them over on that magazine and noticed that the sources from Official TSR and Wizards box sets like "Iuz the Evil" and "Fate of Istus". Now I am making stuff up too since there is no information on it. More confusion adding to the mix. Even Deshute's Ford is in the wrong location of the Greyhawk Maps made by Anna. I placed in on the river and road 20 miles to the east where she placed it.

    Right now I am trying to place "Griffon Manor" I thought I saw somewhere it was outside of Cienega Valley but I thought it would be more logical to be in Penwick. Any thoughts?
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I also believe some information is written about Etterboek and the entire region up and down between Celene and Verbobonc in an older issue of Oerth Journal. I will have to do a little digging but if I discover it I will tell you. Anna's maps are also VERY helpful because they have that township, and many others, listed in that area.

    -Lanthorn
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    rasgon
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Lanthorn wrote:
    I also believe some information is written about Etterboek and the entire region up and down between Celene and Verbobonc in an older issue of Oerth Journal.


    Oerth Journal #9, which places the lord's villa on the banks of the river near Etterboek.

    Oerth Journal #9 wrote:
    . Etterboek: This small town of about 300 people is nestled in a small valley along the banks of Nigb's Run. It gets its name from the great number of ettercaps which plague the hills between here and Nulb, and are a constant menace to travellers on the High Road. The lands of the town belong to a minor noble, Winstin Jugalis. He almost never leaves his villa on the Nigb, except when summoned by the Viscount himself, and leaves the everyday affairs of the town to his daughter, Paloma. She is well-loved by the townsfolk for her kindness and genuine concern for their welfare, and she can often be found visiting the sick or injured.
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    JasonZavoda
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Lanthorn wrote:
    I also believe some information is written about Etterboek and the entire region up and down between Celene and Verbobonc in an older issue of Oerth Journal. I will have to do a little digging but if I discover it I will tell you. Anna's maps are also VERY helpful because they have that township, and many others, listed in that area.

    -Lanthorn


    Id love it if Anna's maps had the ability to add and subtract material by source so you could see where the informations is coming from or if you could hover over a named place and see its list of references or even a wiki blurb.
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Rasgon, thanks for the quote but I already have that in my campaign world website. It doesnt mention Lord Milinous or Griffin Manor at all. In fact, Etterboak is part of the lands of House Langmuir. That is where I was considering putting the House Langmuir Estate.

    Quote:
    The lands of the town belong to a minor noble, Winstin Jugalis. He almost never leaves his villa on the Nigb, except when summoned by the Viscount himself, and leaves the everyday affairs of the town to his daughter, Paloma.
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    Icarus
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:06 am    Post subject: StylinLP38's IP says "wrong" and has IP violations Reply with quote

    StylinLP38 wrote:
    Even Deshute's Ford is in the wrong location of the Greyhawk Maps made by Anna.

    There's no such thing.
    You REALLY need to stop saying in places that there's a "wrong" and a "right" way for Greyhawk to be. Especially when it regards someone else's art or someone else's campaign.

    You once claimed that there were conflicting canon locations (for the Doomgrinder or some other notable dungeon/adventure, if memory serves) because you'd found two sources saying it was in massively different places in two different countries. But, it turned out that you'd copied and pasted from someone's random Obsidian Portal home game campaign where'd they'd put it somewhere else.

    You literally had your website locked up and forced to be non-public by World Anvil because it had more IP violations and was hosting more pirated and illegally shared material than the Obsidian Portal site you linked above.
    You literally copy/paste everything you can possibly find and mash it into one big lump, regardless of where it came from without sourcing, citing, or crediting any of it. And then you claim there's all kinds of "contradictory" information and things that are "wrong". Most of the time, you don't even know where your information came from.

    Anna's maps, while details may not be your personal choosing, are well-researched and she puts a massive amount of effort into them. Which is not to say that it's not slightly different than other maps. Just that she takes from as many valid original sources as she can and tries to find a happy medium between them. Locations even vary on official IP maps.

    Beyond that, though, she is always incredibly clear that it's a fan-made map, and no one is bound to it.
    Her maps are not "wrong" just because you don't like a placement.

    And, yes, you did have information from the sources Rasgon cited above from the Journal of the Wanderer and Walker's Guide to Verbobonc, because I cited the same sources to you, when you were doing this same exact thing on Discord a year ago (literally December 2019 and January 2019 through April 2019).
    I literally quoted entire pertinent sections to you about various towns and manors/estates. I can provide screenshots of nearly identical conversations.

    Lastly, It seems that you have difficulty wrapping your brain around the fact that Living Greyhawk may likely never have needed to map where every single house or manor or estate is, because it wasn't important to the story.
    I submit for your consideration (again) that you might have expectations which are unreasonable for what that campaign should provide for you. There may likely not be locations for them.

    Be creative, Make them up.
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Icarus, please stop trolling my posts. I dont know what your problem is but you are not helpful. I had a question and came here to get an answer if someone had an answer. Everyone that has answered my questions have been very helpful.

    rasgon, I decided to place Griffon Manor in Penwick and Asbury Manor in Cienga Valley as I have not found any other information to say otherwise. Also, I am going to create a Langmuir family estate in Etterboak. In my Greyhawk campaign the players will be traveling back and forth between Verbobonc and Ostverk often. So I needed to get all this sorted out. Thanks for the help.
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    Icarus
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    StylinLP38 wrote:
    Icarus, please stop trolling my posts. I dont know what your problem is but you are not helpful.

    I've never once trolled a post of yours.
    I've never even responded to a post of yours. That's verifiable. If I've ever trolled you - show a screenshot of it somewhere. Anywhere.

    Beyond that - It's not trolling.

    This is the same exact conversation you used a year ago to lead into obtaining and illegally posting IP from WotC, various artists, and countless independent authors.

    It's informing people that ...
    ... you've been requesting and advertising to get illegal access to copyrighted material on various servers and social media platforms.
    ... you're literally lying saying that you don't have information on the topic, when I, personally, gave you excerpted bits of information on these and related topics in quoted paragraphs already.
    ... you've been messaging members of various Discord servers trying to talk people into illegally sharing copyrighted material.
    ... you've been slapped with Digital Millennium Copyright Act infringement notices.
    ... you're still continuing to illegally host and share copyrighted material. Even as we speak. Right now.

    You've made clear statement you didn't play in Living Greyhawk, and yet, you've also made clear and concise statement that you have (at least some of) the adventures.

    And I think people have a right to know how you've obtained material and what you've done with it. It's a pattern of behavior and we have to watch you use websites like Canonfire, GreyhawkOnline, Obsidian Portal, World Anvil, and so many others (not even to mention FB, etc.) to make a bad name for the Greyhawk community.

    And then you have the audacity to declare WotC should release more Greyhawk material or open the LG content publicly.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

    Even when slapped with a DCMA notice on multiple occassions, you refused to comply, and were forced into compliance.


    You've been clear that you know you can't legally share the material you host because it violates IP.


    But, even still ... sharing it privately doesn't mean it's not illegal.
    It just means that the World Anvil people can't get in trouble for you doing it.
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Man, this is why I stopped talking to you a year ago. You over reacted and lectured without being helpful at all. You have misunderstood the facts and come to overblown conclusions. I tend to not respond to ridiculous statements. I have too much going on to waste my time on drama from toxic people.

    Since you disparaged inaccurately I will respond. No, I was never slapped with Digital Millennium Copyright Act infringement notices. That is ridiculous. I told you World Anvil told me to set my Greyhawk campaign world to private because they did not want to be sent notices if someone was to do that. The bulk of my material I am using for my personal D&D campaign is from WIKI's. Those wiki's are public. I am using material from all the Greyhawk modules and books that I own. I created pages for my players in my campaign for Gods, Races, locations, organizations, history. To help with creating their backgrounds when playing.

    I am not a publisher and not trying to sell a product. I am not publishing material for public use on the internet. I am only using this material for my own personal campaigns. I do post questions on Discord and forums asking for help on topics I am working on. People have been very helpful. I am willing to answer questions and help others about their greyhawk campaign too.

    Icarus, I dont want to ask you again, but do not post on any of my threads again. You are toxic and a troll with no value.
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    mindseye
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Stylin, your problem seems to be one that I have often. I want to know the "Correct" and "True" answer to where something is and how it happened. It comes from my History background.

    But seriously, asking people where they put a specific manor in a specific barony seems a little overdone.

    It's also going to stir up conflict on Greyhawk servers especially, because there's a strong "In MY Greyhawk" strain running through the populace.

    Now if you wanna ask where the house is, go ahead.

    But don't indicate that if someone else puts the house somewhere else, that they are "wrong."

    I think that's what sets people off. Especially if you disparage Anna's maps. They may not agree completely with every source that is available, but they aren't wrong. Say something more like "X source places this feature approx 20 miles left"

    Ragson is great about pointing you to the right books to find what you're looking for.

    Now let's see if I've poured gas on the flames or nitrogen.
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    Icarus
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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    mindseye wrote:
    Ragson is great about pointing you to the right books to find what you're looking for.

    Seldom have more true words been spoken.
    Rasgon is inexorably one of the greatest assets to our gaming community. This has been true for years, and I'm sure will continue to be true for years to come.

    mindseye wrote:
    Now let's see if I've poured gas on the flames or nitrogen.
    Hmm. Neither, I don't think. You've simply shared your (very reasonable) thoughts on the matter. And there's nothing wrong with that. Smile
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    StylinLP38
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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    mindseye, I dont see me asking a question a problem. Before I make up where these estates are located I wanted to make sure I didn't miss this information somewhere. It seems that these estates were never written. Thanks to the guys in this thread for confirming that. Now I am going to write two pages for the estates, maps and content. Creating NPC's, locations, and organizations is a lot of work. I created dozens of NPC's articles and maps from scratch in the last 14 months. I spoke to Anna about using her maps last year with her approval and she admitted that she is always improving these maps, correctly typo's and locations. As far as I can tell DeChutte's Ford should be on the main road running along the Nigh. In any case that is where I put it.

    I created a southern verbobonc map for example. I needed a map further zoomed in to show more detail. Next I need to draw a map of eastern verbobonc. The players 1st quest takes them to the Fens of Tor.
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