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    Horn of Valhalla (aligned)
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    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2464
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:15 pm  
    Horn of Valhalla (aligned)

    Check your DMG for this item's full description, if needed.

    The last paragraph states "Fully 50% of these horns are aligned and will summon only fighters of the horn's alignment. A radical alignment difference will cause the horn blower to be attacked by the fighters."

    Now the questions:

    1) If the blower is NOT of a radically different alignment (my second question gets to that point) but does differ from the instrument's alignment, does it really matter?

    Ex: a Neutrally aligned horn summons Neutral berserkers. If the person blowing the horn is of a class that CAN use the horn but is NOT Neutrally aligned (but not of a radically different alignment...see question 2 below), is that an issue? Do the warriors still obey the horn-blower? Is a reaction roll required for their obedience? It really doesn't say. I'm under the impression that the berserkers STILL obey the horn-blower SO LONG as he/she is NOT of the radically different alignment.

    2) What is the definition of a radically different alignment? I'm relying on my 1e knowledge on this one to mean the following:
    LG vs CE, LE vs CG, NG vs NE, LN vs CN (and vice versa for all previously typed abbreviations), whereas true N is opposed by LG, LE, CG, and CE!
    Or is radical alignment even more broad than that?

    thank you

    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2013
    Posts: 354
    From: Minnesota

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    Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:36 am  

    I think it may come down to what is the horn blower asking the group to do and then is that action directly in opposition to the horn's alignment.

    An evil blower that summons good warriors and asks them to attack a village would have them turn on the blower to defend the village.

    A good blower that summons evil warriors might just be attacked outright.

    I don't think I can come up with a hard rule for you. I think it is pretty situational and you would have to rule on the fly in many situations.

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:22 am  

    Purely by the rules, the horn should work for any character whose class allows them to use the horn. The only thing the blower needs to worry about is if the horn happens to be of a 'radically different alignment'.

    I can't give you actual references, but I am certain I have heard that phrase used in official material. To me, it has always meant 'opposite' alignments. Thus, as you mentioned, LG vs. CE, CG vs. LE.

    Whether you consider NE vs. LG/CG or NG vs. LE/CE to be radically different is your prerogative. I don't know that it is ever specifically defined, officially.

    I think it would be a reasonable house rule by a DM to incorporate reaction rolls into the equation when the horn summons warriors of any alignment different than that of the blower. Adjustments to the roll would be more severe depending upon the degree of difference between alignments.
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 12, 2014
    Posts: 155
    From: Maryland, USA

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    Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:00 pm  

    I think I would probably go with Good vs. Evil and to a lesser extent Chaos versus Law, making True Neutral a safe place to be to use one. So a CG person would be fine using anything other than a LN, LE, NE, and CE horn.

    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2004
    Posts: 569
    From: British Isles

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    Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:43 am  

    Going by the rules as written, the only time the beserkers don't "gladly attack anyone the possessor of the horn commands them to fight" are when the horn is blown by a class group unable to use the horn or if the alignment is radically different. So in line with the other responses, it all depends on what you class as radically different.

    Generally I'd say two alignment steps away is fairly radical (so 2 steps on one axis, or at least one step on both axes). You might want to be lenient if there is a shared Good alignment though - LG and CG doesn't seem particularly radical but LE vs. CE does.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 21, 2013
    Posts: 354
    From: Minnesota

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    Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:47 pm  

    I think I over-though it.

    I agree, if the class is correct and alignment not radically different, all is well.

    Wolfling seems to have a pretty good opinion of it. I like the two steps idea.

    I still can't help but think a DM could have some fun with this item if the alignments didn't work out just right. Or the class was wrong. The ensuing encounter could be quite interesting if developed more than just warriors arrive, your alignments are wrong, they attack you.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3821
    From: So. Cal

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    Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:10 pm  

    I agree with Wolfling. Two diferential steps or more out of agreement is a good guide. That would give us the following:

    Alignment: Radically Different Alignments

    LG: TN, CN, Any Evil
    NG: Any Evil
    CG: LN, TN, Any Evil
    LN: CG, CE
    TN: LG, CG, LE, CE
    CN: LG, LE
    LE: TN, CN, Any Good
    NE: Any Good
    CE: LN, TN, Any Good
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    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2464
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

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    Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:54 am  

    Love it, everyone. Wolfling, great idea. And Cebrion, I appreciate that you delineated it out clearly for everyone for easy comprehension and access.

    thanks all,

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