This thread is largely for C. Wesley Clough, but as I thought it would be of interest to others (and I'd obviously welcome all input), here it is.
I love the article on Grot-Ugrat (http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=423). I'd been toying with running some low-level adventures in some of the old humanoid Lortmil lairs, and this really looks like it'll be a springboard for that. Great stuff!!
My reason for posting is for further input on humanoid cities and possibly the Hateful Wars. What would the architecture be like for a hobgoblin city? Mr. Clough's original article mentioned it was constructed entire of "massive stone blocks, some weighing in excess of twenty tons". Did you picture very utilitarian, no specific style, simply function?
You also mentioned that this was part of a larger piece you were working on. How's that goin? :-) I'd love any tidbits you can share. I imagine my PCs in more of a tunnel network environment, but stumbling across the remains of a deserted city...possibly underground, or maybe crushed ruins at the base of a valley.
My initial thoughts were to use the orc city of Garak Enkdal (from Five Shall Be One) as a model, but I also didn't envision an orc city, so I'd love some input. _________________ ~basiliv
I didn't design the world,
I merely facilitated its creation
It is not entirely clear whether the hobgoblins actually built Grot-Ugrat, or simply claimed it after the original inhabitants had vanished, if it was built by somebody else they must have done so and been gone far in the past for Hobgoblins were known to inhabit the city by the time of the twin cataclysms.
Most of the city is incredibly utilitarian, with little in the way of decoration, ornamentation, or even any signs to let explores know what function the various buildings, and chambers once served. I was picturing a combination of Incan ruins such as Machu-Pichu and American Indian cliff dwellings (made out of titanic stone blocks rather then adobe) when I wrote of the city. The city itself is out in the open, on the floor of a bowl shaped valley, but the buildings are massive, and often interconnected, so you get the impression of very narrow streets between towering walls which nearly block out the sun, inside the buildings are each between 2-4 stories high, there are many balconies, ceiling doors, passages and chambers in each, but few doors are actually at ground level, and each building is typically connected to several neighboring buildings, so that you can travel a great distance in the city with out ever using an outside street. Near the center of the city are several large open plazas that the hobgoblins used as market squares, and the city’s temples lay in the eastern part of the city, on a terrace that sticks out into the valley. Unlike the rest of city the temples are richly decorated inside and out, and show a generally different style of architecture then the city proper (I would say that they are much newer then the rest of the city, and were definatly built by Hobgoblins, perhaps on older ruins). There are three temples, a great temple to Nomog-Geaya, and lesser temples to Maglubiyet and Bargrivyek (goblin deity of cooperation); all are richly decorated with gold and gems.
I have a lot of notes toward an adventure that takes characters from the Duchy of Ulek to Grot Ugrat in an attempt to stop a hobgoblin cleric from invoking a ritual which will cleanse the sacred valley by causing the curse to be reoriented upon the lands of those that caused it (Duchy of Ulek, and Celene). Eventualy I will write the notes up into a whole adventure and submit it either to Dungeon Magazine or here to Canonfire, but it seems that every time I start working on it something else comes up. :)
Hope that helps :)
of course you are free to take the original adventure hook provided in the article and do with it what you will, please do not feel bound by any of my ideas upon the subject :)
Thanks much cwslyclgh. I never feel confined to use exactly what's presented, but the more my material falls in line with the original, the more I can use of your later expansions. :-)
The prior inhabitants idea is appealing too...I just might review Iquander's ancient history articles and tie those in.
I don't think I'll use Grot-Ugrat itself until later in the campaign, but you've given me several ideas for a good low-level cavern crawl, probably foreshadowing later events, and it's much appreciated! _________________ ~basiliv
I didn't design the world,
I merely facilitated its creation
It is not entirely clear whether the hobgoblins actually built Grot-Ugrat, or simply claimed it after the original inhabitants had vanished, if it was built by somebody else they must have done so and been gone far in the past for Hobgoblins were known to inhabit the city by the time of the twin cataclysms.
That was my first thought upon seeing Basiliv's question. While I believe the hobgoblins to be the most technologically and culturally advanced of the humanoids races, I also see them as conquerors, not builders, when the opportunity arises.
G-U could be, IMO an old Dwarven or Gnomish settlement, either abandoned by them and occupied by the Hobgobbies, or taken by force in some ancient battle.
OTOH, an upcoming article of mine (it's in the queue, keep an eye on the front page) places the prehistoric Olman people in this area, so maybe they built it? _________________ What would Raxivort do?<br />
I agree somewhat with the concept of hobgoblins being conquerers not builders, but as the most civilized of the humanoids, I give the hobgoblins more credit to being makers rather then just plunderers.
I first explored the concept of a most civilized hobgoblin tribe in a couple of articles linked here:
In Aggrethor, the towns there are spartan, but very functional. These hobgoblins build their own facilities. Most of their innovation goes into militarilly useful buildings (smithies, barracks, mines) rather then ones for comfort, so their living quarters lag behind the other in upkeep and appearance.
Even the most civilized of hobgoblins prefers to live underground or at least in shaded areas most of the time. So even an above ground hobgoblin town has a lot of tunneling underneath and makes judicious use of tenting and awnings to keep the areas shaded during the day.
Anyway, my hobgoblins are very much an exceptional bunch and there is no reason to apply any of that to any other tribe. But there could be intriging connections between my tribe at Aggrethor and the ones in Grot-Ugrat...
Anced_Math, you know, I tried that, but when I went to the preview frame it still showed my tags instead of a link...and I did NOT check the "Disable HTML" box. *shrug*
I didn't wanna make it difficult for the HTML-impaired, so I removed my tags & just pasted the actual link.
Anyway, thanks for the direct link! _________________ ~basiliv
I didn't design the world,
I merely facilitated its creation
As everyone should know at this point, Ivor and I are working on a Gazzateer. Osmund Davizid and CWSLYCLGH, I would like to ask your permission to use and adapt your works presented here. Both may have relevance to an Campaign arc Ivor is working on, and it would be helpful to craft these into the work. However, we would like permission prior to drafting any documents. You can reply here, or via email. Thanks in advance.
Grot-Ugrat's cyclopean stature suggests to me that it may have been constructed originally by stone giants--perhaps ancestors to the tribe that now inhabits Esmerin.
IMC, the ho-jebline derive from the bakemono, whose original homelands may be east of the Gulf of Ghayar. During the ancient Baklunish Empire, bakemono were the preferred humanoid mercenaries. (Euroz--orcs-were preferred by the Suloise Imperium.) Note that bakemono name a set of ancestral goblinoid monsters that were used throughout the Empire. They were particularly established in the Ataphad Islands.
Over the centuries, the bakemono differentiated into the jebline, ho-jebline, and buheer. As these goblinoids entered the Flanaess, they encountered the native humanoids of the Flanaess--the xvarts and celbits. (Eiger were also native to the Flanaess.)
I explain all the above to contextualize the fact that IMC ho-jebline architecture and style is redolent of Earthly Japanese culture, e.g., the construction of towers and tiled roofs or the preference for lacquered armors. If you saw the recent Planet of the Apes film, I found their weapons and armor also a good model.
Note that I believe there are only a few places where ho-jebline culture has really had the chance to develop its own aesthetics, e.g., the Pomarj, the Bone March, and the Horned Society. And then there are places where the ho-jebline culture is highly influenced by the human culture in which it is situated, e.g., Shar and the former North Province and See of Medegia. There may be other places as well, but they tend to be marginal when compared to these locations because the ho-jebline have not been adequately concentrated for enough time to develop an "independent" culture.
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