As anyone here who has seen the majority of my posts will know, I am a huge fan of Big T. I like the Idea of him being an Over God as it makes a lot more sense as to why the gods felt him a big enough threat to imprison him. And that idea opens up other philosophical questions. If what he does is the natural cycle of creation and destruction, then the other gods stopping him from doing his job would be a bad thing? The gods imprisoning Tharizdun would then be an act of pure selfishness thus turning Tharizdun from the ultimate villain into a good guy or at least the wronged party in the dispute. I think it makes for a very interesting turn of events. Especially in a campaign where that is the overall focus. The players spend all there time foiling the plots of Tharizdun's worshipers only to find out that they are stopping the natural cycle of things. Do they then out the cycle back in motion or do they keep it stopped thus causing eventual stagnation. I think this would really cause a lot of soul searching for Druidic and ranger characters but could also make the paladins out there question if what they do is really for the greater good?
Hey, Cebrion! Do you have other Magic cards like thise one, I like the humor.
I think certain topic subjects are timeless, and other members' opinion worth reading even if they are 4 years old; it is also best that they do not fall into oblivion.
For me, I don't want to start a topic which was already posted earlier (with interesting point of view shared).
WEll he did post more than "I agree" and since his elabotarions are very muich on topic for this thread why not resurrect it instead of duplicating it?
Although no source I would consider canon specifies or states the existence of an OG, careful reading of the Gord books, especially those from Sea of Death onwards, would seem to permit the idea of an OG.
We see in those books that above the normal gods of the campaign world, certain enormously powerful entities embodying cosmological principles exist (ie. Entropy and so on). Reading through the lines we can see the possibility of those entities obeying rules higher than themselves. But the idea is further complicated because this OG postulated might not simply be personalized, he may be closer to some sort of First Principle, which might or not be active in the universe, a sort of Daoist First Tao. Some people do equate the Tao with God, others simply think of it as an impersonal set of principles.
All these discussions have little utility or reason if they do not impact our campaign world and play. If we don't think of them as advancing our game play, we might as well be discussing better things, and take up real world theology if we think that's apt.
In my GH, druids and certain secret societies of the Flanaess, with their counterparts outside the Flanaess in other areas of Oerth, are privy to some secrets which put them in opposition to most other religions and deities. Basically, they hold secrets to the cosmos and the final destination of souls, and tend to think of deities as just another set of beings that have, in this case, even greater abilities. Think of how Buddhists talk about Hindu Gods: yeah, they're powerful beings and may have influence on what's going of after death, but ultimately they're still tied to the wheel of karma. Thus, when souls are sent to the Outer Planes because those beings venerated gods and they claimed those souls, their progress through the reincarnation wheel is delayed, as they will linger on the outer planes for much longer than it would normally take them to reincarnate. This is, from the druids point of view, "not a good thing", and although they have learned for expediency to cooperate and even respect some of those deities, they see themselves as fundamentally different from clerics or other deistic philosophies. In some sense, this would mean that in my GH druids are the true representatives of a monotheistic, or perhaps even atheistic, philosophy, though they do not package their message as such for the "masses", and only some PCs might be privy to this. In addition, they know that some deities that are seen as separate, are in fact the same deity under different aspects. Even if they're of different alignments, such as a LE nd a NG deity.
Your mileage may vary, but mine is 30 per hex, since I still use the 83 boxed set. _________________ Lisbon Portugal<br />
As Maldin exposed it in his GUT, if there was an OverGod, why do peoples have to pray for "lesser" beings ? Why not speak directly to the top ? And in such a case, gods of Oerth are just like messenger with defined portfolio speaking for the OverGod. I do not think there are any references about this in GreyHawk books.
So if such a deity existed, for mere mortals it should be unreachable by whatever means. And this entity would probably not be interested in a little planet lost in the entire universe... So an OverGod looks more like a set of Rules which explains how the universe works. Therefore, it cannot be considered like a god but more like principles.
I must admit that I am a fan of Maldin's theory. It allies simplicity with high sophistication. _________________ What does not kill us, makes us stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche
There are figures in Gygax's novels that may be analogous to the concept of an Overgod. Who are they? Lady Tolerance, Master Entropy, and Proctor Chronos are some. For summaries of these figures and much more, see Gord's Greyhawk, at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze33gpz/gordmain.html.
There is a lock on your link, so what is th out come of these deities?
I'm not totally against thread necromancy, particulalry here at Canonfire! where the material is fairly static, but when people post new messages as if the thread and all of its posters are currently active in their posting(when they are clearly not), you tend to get more than a few irrelevant posts. So, look at who is currently active in their posting(i.e. check the date of their last post on the thread) and respond accordingly.
I haven't seen MtG around for some time, so sending a PM might be your best bet(he may not troll the forums that much currently, if at all). At any rate, here is a more current link to the material mtg was referring to ago in his nearly five year old link:
I'm not totally against thread necromancy, particulalry here at Canonfire! where the material is fairly static, but when people post new messages as if the thread and all of its posters are currently active in their posting(when they are clearly not), you tend to get more than a few irrelevant posts. So, look at who is currently active in their posting(i.e. check the date of their last post on the thread) and respond accordingly.
I haven't seen MtG around for some time, so sending a PM might be your best bet(he may not troll the forums that much currently, if at all). At any rate, here is a more current link to the material mtg was referring to ago in his nearly five year old link:
Thanks for the tips. I find there isn't much in the way to learn how to use anything here. Like how do you find a response to one of your posts if you do not check your email first? Trial and error, I suppose! I am used to people checking a blog they are a member of frequently. I assumed wrong! And as you point out, 2003, "IS" a long time to have posted something! LOL!
Thanks again, for informing me of Necromnacy threads? But it is ok. You do not have to tell me what it really means. I can figure it out!
Thread necromancy will usually be pointed out, but only with the intention of reminding the latest poster of how old a thread actually is(if it didn’t seem obvious they knew the age of the thread in the first place). Besides, even I occasionally forget to look at posting dates. Nobody is infallible.
If anybody does want to raise an an old thread from the dead, it would be best to preface their post with something like...
"I know this thread has been inactive for some time, but I'd like to discuss it, so here goes..."
or...
"Yeah, I know this thread is old, but I wanted to revel in my Necromancer mad skillz and talk about this topic. Anybody got a problem with that?! Yeah, that's what I thought! Now on the the discussion."
So, nobody need worry about threads being locked, posts deleted, or anything like that. Canonfire! is pretty freewheeling in that regard(within the limits of decency that is), so let the discussion continue. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
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