Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Touring the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly Denizens
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Boss Renfus
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Boss Renfus
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:45 pm  
    Boss Renfus

    Hello fellow Hawkers,

    I would like to know if Boss Renfus has been given a stat-block in any existing Greyhawk sources. AD&D sources are fine. I have browsed through my GH collection and though I find many mentions of him, an actual stat block eludes me. I've looked through the following GH books that I own and haven't found anything, although I certainly could have missed something.

    Iuz the Evil
    From the Ashes
    Greyhawk Adventures
    World of Greyhawk Gazetteer (1979)
    Living Greyhawk Gazetteer


    Iuz the Evil is the most likely place I'd imagine one to be, but IIRC there is hardly a mention of the Boss besides his ability to out-drink a glabrezu. I know Gygax wrote up a supplement called The Wasp's Nest way back in the day that never saw print. I'm certain the Boss had to be detailed therein, but I find it unlikely I'd ever be able to obtain a copy of "The Master's" work. I can't seem to find a Search function on this forum, otherwise, I would have done that. Mad

    If anyone has info, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm also posting this to canonfire so if you respond to me there, don't feel the need to respond here again. Thanks!
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

    Send private message
    Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:06 am  

    Who's Renfus?

    The search function is on the top left. Try also searching the Greytalk (GT)archives... (The link is also on the left)
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
    Posts: 634


    Send private message
    Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:13 am  

    Thanael wrote:
    Who's Renfus?

    The search function is on the top left. Try also searching the Greytalk (GT)archives... (The link is also on the left)


    Boss of Stoink. Also known as Renfus the Mottled. A lovely man I'm sure.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 113
    From: Orland Hills, Illinois

    Send private message
    Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:26 pm  

    There was a Dragon Magazine Article detailing the Bandit Kingdoms, pre-Greyhawk I will look it up in the Archive tonight.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:09 pm  

    I'm surprised that someone hasn't heard of him. I thought he was a fairly important character myself. He's the ruler of Stoink in the Bandit Lands. When Iuz arrived, he allied himself with the demigod and to this day remains semi-autonomous. The biggest legend surrounding this guy is that a glabrezu sent to "talk" to him wound up crawling back to Dorakaa on his hands, claws, and knees, apparently having lost to Renfus in a drinking contest.

    I already knew about the search function in the top left, but that searches the canonfire site. I was looking for something that specifically searches the forums. Of course, maybe it DOES search the boards but not very well (I've tried some fairly common greyhawk phrases/names and turned up nothing on the boards). Thanks anyway.

    Anyway, I would really appreciate help if anyone knows of another reference to him. I've been tasked with statting him out for Living Greyhawk. I would like to just do a 1e or 2e conversion, but I can't do that if I can't find a stat block. All I have for now is the LGG reference which pegs him a CN male human Rog12.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

    Send private message
    Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:15 am  

    huh? there used to be a search the forums link below the canonfire search. hmmm must have been lost in the update.

    As for Renfus, the greytalk archives yield a little info on him. According to this messgae and this message he's supposed ot be a wizard primarily, rogue secondarily. I've got no idea what the posters sources are though...
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:26 am  

    I've knocked up my own gazeteer of the Bandit Kingdoms and I couldn't find any more specific stats for Renfus either. Renfus the Mottled - that's him isn't it? I don't remember him being detailed in Iuz the Evil so I think I just made up my own stats the old-fashioned way using the detailed text to guess his magical items. I don't have them with me now but I can probably dig them out at home if u like, although mine is a low magic campaign, so you might prefer to do your own.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:16 am  

    That's really odd. I've never heard tell of Renfus being a wizard. As it stands for Living Greyhawk, I'll probably have to go with what the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer says about him being a rogue. Although I am VERY curious about where CJ McLean found that information.

    On another note, the Greytalk posts seem to indicate this discussion is based on the AoW adventure path. Is the AoW going to take players to Stoink eventually? I hadn't heard of that, although the AoW overload is scheduled to be out any day now and might shed some light on that subject.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 113
    From: Orland Hills, Illinois

    Send private message
    Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:30 pm  

    There is no dragon reference to Renfus in the Dragon Magazine Archive
    But you might search "bandit kingdoms" Found some cruncies:

    #67 pg 14 has WoG map boundaries for the BK at the time (1st ed.). The ruler of Stoink then was Boss Dhaelhy (ftr/thief, 8th/5th).
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 898
    From: Computer Desk

    Send private message
    Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:27 am  

    NathanBrazil wrote:
    #67 pg 14 has WoG map boundaries for the BK at the time (1st ed.). The ruler of Stoink then was Boss Dhaelhy (ftr/thief, 8th/5th).


    Boss Dhaelhy was probably a predecessor of Boss Renfus as assassination in Stoink was fairly common.

    Iuz the Evil does protray Boss Renfus as a fearsome fighter and cunning politician who is quite popular with the bandits and citizens of Stoink.

    Why do you think Iuz "allowed" him to retain rulership of a plumb city like Stoink rather than handing it to a toadying priest?

    Can't find his stats, but I would make him a fighter with decent Int, Wis and Char but not to high remember Renfus the Mottled.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:19 pm  

    Renfus actually did assassinate Dhaelhy at some point. I don't remember if I read it in a novel or sourcebook but I do know that was the case.

    As for why Iuz "allowed" Renfus to retain rulership, that's an oversimplification. It's easier to understand their relationship as something of a lord/vassal one. Renfus is essentially a vassal of Iuz. When the armies of Iuz arrived in Stoink, Renfus simply welcomed them with open arms and engaged them in negotiation which ended in a mutual pact of assistance and alliance in which Iuz was acknowledged to be the more powerful part. However, due to the fact that Stoink is far-removed geographically from Dorakaa, Renfus has much more free reign than rulers of those fiefdoms that are located closer, such as Izlen. Of course, being chaotic evil, Iuz has difficulty administrating his entire empire and it is most likely his own sheer force of personal power that holds it together.

    As I've already stated, for purposes of Living Greyhawk (which is the context of my question), Renfus is a Rog12+ since that's how he's described in the LGG. I imagine the decision to make him a rogue had some grounding in canon, but I don't know if it was something Reynolds and crew deduced from information on him previously or if they took his stats from some existing canon source and advanced him a few levels to account for the passage of years. Personally, I find the idea of him being a fighter highly improbable. He's not the kind of guy to muscle his way around, although it is clear that he's certainly capable of holding his own in a fight. He's more of a slippery and devious character which I think is much more indicative of the rogue class. Of course, IRL I imagine it would be difficult to differentiate between a fighter who fights in light armor and a rogue who specializes in melee combat.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 898
    From: Computer Desk

    Send private message
    Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:08 pm  

    Mea Culpa time..
    Forgive my post, I am choking on dust Wink
    Dug up my Iuz supplement, no mention of Fighter...

    Boss Renfus became despot after former despot choked on his supper due to Renfus quarterstaff.
    Vast figure
    Shrewd
    Bandits happy with his rule
    Carefully pick targets to raid prefers Nyrond
    Foul mouthed and hard to intimidate (drinking contest)
    Several magic items useful against fiends

    That's it...the quarterstaff tidbit Does suggest Rogue to me, can't see a Bandit Despot Fighter choosing as a primary weapon a quarterstaff.
    But anything is possible...

    However I would now accept Renfus as LGG (Rog 12).
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:07 am  

    Here was my version, rolled the old fashioned way and adjusted for probable age, levels, and maybe a tweak here and there to fit in more with his listed character information.

    Renfus the Mottled (Male Human Rogue 12, N, S11, D8, C17, I16, W15, Ch17, AC13, hp 89)
    The undisputed ruler of the Free City-state of Stoink is the overweight Boss Renfus the Mottled. He actually commands the troops and sends them out on raids and patrols as he wishes. When Iuz's men set out determined to terrify him into submission, they return submerged by the avalanche of words and colourful oaths Renfus yells at eardrum-bursting intensity. The magical protections and influences Renfus carries have much to do with this, as they do with his seeming lack of fear at a visit from a fiend. Stoink is the only city in Oerik where a glabrezu sent to bully a man into servitude can crawl back on all fours along the gutters, reeking of brandy and unable to speak.
    Renfus is no fool. He constantly encourages his troops to pillage and loot, but takes care never to raid the same places too often so as to invite reprisals. He is especially wary of raiding into Urnst, given the forbidding castle and garrison of Ventnor (see the County of Urnst) to the south. He would rather send raiders into Nyrond than risk reprisals from Urnst. Renfus is shrewd and he doesn't push the priests of Iuz too far. When they need something done as a matter of urgency, he attends to it. He has, so far, managed to keep the bandits of Stoink as happy in their drunkenness as they were before the wars.
    Bracers of Armour +4, Quarterstaff +2, Iron Crown of the Bandit Kingdoms, Amulet of Mind Shielding, Ring of Stoneskin (70 points), Eyes of Doom

    Of course it's all totally speculative, and my campaign is relatively low magic, so Renfus is loaded compared to other npcs. Hope it helps.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
    Posts: 898
    From: Computer Desk

    Send private message
    Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:08 am  

    Nice write up Smile

    The magic Items are subjective and easily tailored by the individual DM to his game.

    I am puzzled by the stats, Shrewd to me means more wisdom than Int, given his obesity Con 17, but the skull scratcher Dex 8 for a rogue?

    Is this a mistake, in the 1st and 2nd editions he would not even qualify for the class (Dex minium 9) or is this lack of Dex because of his expanding waistline, even so for a rogue, it seems extreme.


    Last edited by Crag on Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:05 am  

    Lol. Heads up guys - I ROLLED THEM. However, there is no longer anything that says that rogues have to have over 9 dexterity to be rogues - FREE YOUR MINDS.

    Low dexterity because he is very fat and because he must be quite old now, so his physical stats will have dropped as well. High consitution - he drank a demon under the table - granted, that could have been with magical assistance - but i like to think the guy just has a naturally astounding constitution (personal preference). I think I must have pumped some of his 3 inherent advances due to level into his constiution score for it to remain at 17.

    The definition of 'shrewd' is tough to call. He might just have high points in sense motive. There is no hard or fast rule that says he has to have a +3 in any particular stat. I did add a 'free' +1 to all his mental stats because he sounds like he is one smart cookie.

    At the end of the day, I didn't put a lot of thought into this guy. I just read the script and rolled the dice. My advice - do the same!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:12 am  

    As for the ability to drink a demon under the table, I presumed to give him Endurance (along with Diehard, why not) and Great Fortitude.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:53 am  

    Yes, most npcs have only the barest of bones in canon so I haven't attempted to work out feats yet. Some are obvious e,g. Tenser must have craft wondrous items but others are just a matter of preference. There is a nifty site that has tried to work out major npcs as epic characters complete with prestige classes and epic feats.

    While I don't necessarily agree with the proposed levels and (particularly) the power-gaming physical and mental stats (surely a maximum of 23 in one stat should result at level 20, then adjusted by age), I think the site is a huge help in giving pointers and ideas for the higher level npcs. I thoroughly recommend it, even though I can't remember the address. Doh!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2005
    Posts: 13


    Send private message
    Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:59 pm  

    That's duicatharn's site. I feel the same way about it. I don't think it's very useful myself. As I've said before on other forums (and maybe this one), those stats are fine if you want to treat GH like the Realms, but I don't think it ought to be. That's just my personal opinion.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
    Posts: 422
    From: Canada

    Send private message
    Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm  

    All of the above, notwithstanding, Boss Renfrus's stats and powers are very simple: whatever you, the DM, decides he has. Feel free to overrule canon whenever you like, and do basically whatever you want. It's what I do, most of the time. Here's a sample of what you might do with Boss Renfrus:

    Boss Renfrus the Mottled lives up to his name, with a porcine, hairy face and arms, a bloated stomach, and skin covered in mottled scars and boils. Looking much like a grossly overweight orc, Renfrus is known to drool and wheeze whenever he talks or eats, both of which he unfortunately does on a regular basis. His eyes twinkle with both mischief and malice, and his teeth are both crooked and yellow. His ugliness is accented both by his horrible stench, and the fact that he often leaves his arms and flabby guts exposed, scratching them as need be.

    Renfrus is famous for being a functioning alcoholic, able to down extensive amounts of stout, beer and mead all at once with every meal. However, he only drinks these types of alcohol when among his men, or when he tries to project as disgusting and low-brow an image as possible. In truth, he actually prefers fine wines and elven spirits, paying huge sums to have them imported from as far away as the Lordship of the Isles. He also has a particular fondness for drugs, although of course he is careful to only indulge in mushrooms and poppies in moderation.

    In dealing with others, Renfrus enjoys disgusting and/or intimidating those he meets with his personal appearances and habits. He has noted on more than one occasion that people not to negotiate from the strongest position if their eyes are watering, or if they are afraid of him for his foul stench and lack of personal hygiene. Of course, he can also project the patently false image of being an overweight, greasy, dimwitted slob, if necessary. Renfrus is blessed with a brilliantly cunning mind that knows how to manipulate the perceptions people have of him to his best advantage.

    Renfrus has a surprising amount of muscle beneath his fat, and finds he is able to easily get his point across by smashing a table to pieces with a blow from his mace. This usually "convinces" most people of his point of view. In a way, Renfrus is much like the mercenaries of his city-famous for both his great skills (in negotiating and politics), and his general bad manners (slovenly appearance and disgusting habits).


    That's an example. I'm proud to say that I did absolutely no research in canon to come up with this, save for that blurb about him in the LGG on page 30. Outside credit does go to Stan Lee's Kingpin character from Marvel Comics for the bit about there being a lot of strength beneath the fat, and smashing tables to pieces with a single blow. Renfrus in general is also meant to be a sort of cross between the Kingpin and Homer Simpson.

    The point is, don't get too caught up in canon. If canon doesn't provide the info you need, make it up! It's your perogative as DM, and you, and only you, can dictate what happens in your game. Canon is meant as an aid, not a strait-jacket.
    _________________
    <div align="left">Going to war without Keoland is like going to war without a pipe organ.&nbsp; They both make a lot of noise and they're both a lot of dead weight, so what's the point in taking them along?&nbsp;</div>
    Novice

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
    Posts: 2
    From: Calgary

    Send private message
    Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:35 pm  

    Renfus is without a doubt a wizard, he may have some fighting skills but he is wizard.
    He is constantly surrounded with magical protections.
    He is monstrously fat.
    He cavorts with devils and demons.
    He carries a staff.

    There are more, but I would have to go through my books to find them.

    CJ
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
    Posts: 636


    Send private message
    Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:15 am  

    Except of course Renfus has 'officially' been listed as a Rogue in the LGG supplement I think.

    It's true your npcs can be whatever class you choose to make them to fit in with whatever plots you choose. For my part, I don't see why npcs have to follow pc conventions. So he uses a staff - so what? Rogue's can use staves, they can take weapon focus, and two-weapon fighting etc to improve their prowess with the staff (although my dice-rolled build of Renfus would have too low a dexterity for the latter). None of his protections are anything that a non-wizard couldn't use if in possession of the right magical items. As somebody pointed out earlier, various feats, or high skill ranks can mimic certain abilities reflected in the established text.

    It's fun making them fit in with the text! :-) But personally, given the rarity of wizards in the Bandit Kingdoms (apart from in Rookroost), I prefer not to turn traditional non-wizard npcs into wizardly ones.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 21, 2003
    Posts: 538
    From: Germany

    Send private message
    Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:37 am  

    What does the Iron Crown of the Bandit Kingdoms do again?
    Novice

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
    Posts: 2
    From: Calgary

    Send private message
    Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:24 am  

    The Carl Sargent version is the official version.
    I remember getting math textbooks that had clear misprints and errors in the answers section. There would always be one kid who couldn't grasp that the textbook manufacturers could make a mistake. You're that kid.
    Regardless of whether you think he is a fighter, a rogue, or a magic user it is pretty clear he isn't just one of those things. He can speak fiendish tongues and may even be of fiendish blood. At the very least he is multiclassed.
    Sure he's a fighter or a thief but he wears robes and carries a staff...
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.34 Seconds