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    Thrommel Again?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:57 am  
    Thrommel Again?

    I've been reading everything that I can about Prince Thrommel. So far I can't find the answers that I need. Can I get your imput, please?

    What was his approximate age when he vanished (when was he born)?
    Also, what did he look like? Height, and hair color? Who was his mother?
    One canoneer says Iggwilv. Did he have siblings?

    My group has its own answers, but, as always, I prefer a more canon one.

    I know to many the answer is (who cares -- what difference does it make?), but, please, indulge me.

    Thanks to all.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:16 pm  

    Don't know of a canon age, but I made him 19 at the time of Emridy Meadows, which gives him a birth year of 550. I figured that made him old enough to lead the army but young enough not to be married yet, although given the nature of poilitical marriages that doesn't really mean anything.

    Here's the physical description from TOEE - "...a handsome mail-clad human man with golden hair. " Beyond his clothing, that's all I could find, although apparently Thrommel makes an appearance in the opening movie of Atari's TOEE, so you could probably ask someone on one of that game's forums, if you would consider that canon. Wink

    Iggwilv was his mother!? Who the? What the?

    Everything I've ever seen indicates no siblings. Living ones at least.
    GreySage

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:52 pm  

    This non-canonical timeline has him born in 553, making him only 16 during the Battle of Emridy Meadows.

    Where did you see a Thrommel/Iggwilv connection?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:29 pm  

    The Iggwilv - Thrommel - Belvor connection:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26

    Hey, I liked the idea actually, and it was all I could find about Thrommel's mother.

    Thrommel is blonde! My players were right. They envisioned him looking like Eomer from the LoTR: Two Towers movie.

    Again, much thanks on the info.

    One last question: What is Thrommel's surname?
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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:10 pm  

    Go Iggy! Iggwilv did it all! Laughing
    GreySage

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:25 pm  

    Skech wrote:
    One last question: What is Thrommel's surname?


    "Tiryth," according to the noncanonical timeline. Sounds good enough.

    Gary Holian suggests "Stinvri. "

    Quote:

    rip: Belvor's royal house doesn't have a proper name, does it?
    Cebrion: Tufffbufferins. Belvor Tuffbuffferin.
    rip: Tuffactintinactin.
    GLH_PSmedger: rip> House Stinvri?
    Cebrion: The Marklands does an excellent job of not naming the 7 noble houses.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:02 pm  

    The Dorag story is pretty cool, although I'd think there would be problems with the nation accepting the child of Iggwilv as Crown Prince and King.

    I assume Stinvri was a first name considering names given with hereditary titles usually are such, and Greyhawk seems to follow this.

    When I needed a surname my aerdian language confluxer spat out "Reles."
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:02 am  

    That story is a little too Arthurian for my tastes.

    Plus if you are going to make Thrommel half-Baklunish I don't think he would be a dumb-blond! ;)
    GreySage

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    Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:54 pm  

    Although she has a history in Ket, Iggwilv isn't necessarily Baklunish.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:15 pm  

    Yeah, I always thought of Iggwilv as coming from some weird Tharizdun-worshipping Flan hill-tribe, like something out of an HP Lovecraft story, but the background in Dragon # 336 made her seem a little more sophisticated than that.

    Of course Flan blood probably equals blond less than Baklunish does. I know blond hair isn't necessarily Suel exclusive, but I imagined Thrommel's mother might be from foreign royalty, maybe Nyrond or Urnst?
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:43 am  

    I don't recall there ever being a surname applied to the Furyondi royal house, though I seem to recall the name of the House of Stinvri being bandied about somewhere (can't recall if it was Canon or not though). Stinvri was the last Aerdi Viceroy of Ferrond. His son, Thrommel, was crowned the first king of Furyondy. Stinvri does seem to be a first name rather than a surname. We know that surnames were in common use among Aerdi houses by at least the reign of Nasran Cranden, so it seems reasonable to think Stinvri would have had a surname also (unless Thrommel I took his father's name as his surname as a symbol of his break with Aerdy).

    Of course, this also assumes that the same house rules Furyondy now (not too unreasonable, given the realm seems to have avoided any significant civil wars or revolutions in the intervening centuries).

    As for Prince Thrommel being blonde - perhaps his mother hailed from Keoland or the Urnsts? Might she have been a Neheli, a Rhola, a Gellor or a Lorinar? Presumably she died either giving birth to Thrommel or to a subsequent child, who also perished. Belvor might then have refused to remarry (no doubt to the dismay of his court once Thrommel vanished).

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    Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:07 pm  

    Woesinger wrote:
    As for Prince Thrommel being blonde - perhaps his mother hailed from Keoland or the Urnsts? Might she have been a Neheli, a Rhola, a Gellor or a Lorinar? Presumably she died either giving birth to Thrommel or to a subsequent child, who also perished. Belvor might then have refused to remarry (no doubt to the dismay of his court once Thrommel vanished).
    P.


    IIRC there's no material on Belvor's wife or what happened to her.

    Mike
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    Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:13 pm  

    If she is a Rhola, we can have Thrommel show up in Keoland to reclaim his throne and unite the Velverdyva and Sheldomar forever under the Black Lion!
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:19 pm  

    Rowan Atkinson with blonde hair?
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:11 am  

    Samwise wrote:
    If she is a Rhola, we can have Thrommel show up in Keoland to reclaim his throne and unite the Velverdyva and Sheldomar forever under the Black Lion!


    Now there's a scary thought! :D

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    Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:10 am  

    The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer on page 46 has a few interesting bits of information.

    Viceroy Stinvri died in 254 and they installed his heir as Thrommel I, King of Furyondy. By 288 the King had moved his Capital from Dyvers to Chendle in Fairwain Province.

    So you need to choose. Thrommel I was this his first name or last name. (I use it to mean his last name with subsequent rulers using their first names to differentiate themselves).

    If you think it was his first name then Fairwain is a good choice for the Royal House just like the Royal Province.

    There are several other plausible options since his father is cited as Viceroy Stinvri. Stinvri is also a plausible last name for the Royal House.

    Don't forget Ferrond (Furyondy) was cited as the proudest jewel in the crown of Aerdy. As the Viceroyalty of Ferrond Viceroy Stinvri could easily have been a relative of the Emperor of Aerdy with his House name.

    The current king is King Belvor IV (LGG & The Marklands)

    After 300+ years (depending on the year of your campaign) the human King Belvor isn't the 4th King of Furyondy just the Fourth Belvor of the Royal House of Furyondy.

    It could be Furyondy custom for the King to use his first name and his designated heir to use the House name Prince Thrommel or Prince Thrommel Fairwain.

    LGG notes that Furyondy is governed by the king and by the Seven Families listing the 8 provinces.

    Another precedent for using Fairwain is several other rulers take their province name as their last name Baron Littleberg, Baron Willip and Baroness Kalinstren plus the capital was moved (Fairwain Province by 288 the King had relocated).

    Hope that helps.


    Last edited by castlemike on Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:59 pm  

    castlemike wrote:
    Don't forget Ferrond (Furyondy) was cited as the proudest jewel in the crown of Aerdy. As the Viceroyalty of Ferrond Viceroy Stinvri could easily have been a relative of the Emperor of Aerdy with his House name.


    Good point, or he could have been a Naelax, Torquann, Garasteth, Cranden, or Darmen. Greyhawk not being the real world we can't be sure that a viceroy would always be a peer, not that they always were even in the real world. But considering the Viceroyalty of Ferrond was hereditary it's probably a safe bet that he was from a noble family of the Great Kingdom.

    castlemike wrote:
    Another precedent for using Fairwain is several other rulers take their province name as their last name Baron Littleberg, Baron Willip and Baroness Kalinstren plus the capital was moved.


    Again with Greyhawk not being the real world, but normally (in the British system at least) a Baron (and other peers) are addressed by the place which they hold their title from. So Xanthen Butrain, the Baron of Littleberg would be correctly called Baron Littleberg, Lord Littleberg, or even just Littleberg, though his surname is Butrain. It's probably safe to assume they were following this system in the LGG.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:56 pm  

    According to the Marklands regarding the Seven Families despite their ranking a Baron, a Viscount or Viscountess, a Count or Duke are all equal in rank despite their assigned Noble Title rank.

    He was Baron Jemian of Littleberg in the Marklands.

    In the LGG King Belvor IV of Fairwain Province and Baron Jemain of Littleberg Province are the only two rulers of eight listed without last names that would differentiate them from their provinces.

    In the end you need to choose what works best in your campaign.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:08 am  

    The Marklands is sadly lacking in detail on the noble families of Furyody and other relams. As sourcebooks go, this one fails miserably regarding the aforementioned information.

    My point of view is that the names listed for the rulers is their first names, which seems to be the trend with all products. The family names are simply never mentioned anywhere to my knowledge, and I have been looking. The Marklands could have been a very good sourcebook by simply covering the noble families in the section "Furyondy: Power and people". Only Baron Jemian is even mentioned. The seven families, along with their rulers and military/political might, should have been mentioned at the very least. Instead, the relations of Furyondy with other states and other oddities takes precedence for some odd reason.

    While The Marklands has a decent amount of interesting information, it is sadly lacking in the providing information on the main area covered in the booklet- Furyondy.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:36 am  

    I was up late.

    Don't forget all the rulers got a mention by name under ruler for their province in the Marklands usually with a few personal notes there or under charcters and forces of Furyondy (Another reason to use Provincial Names for last names last names were only developed for rulers with differing last names to provincial names).

    Don't forget each ruler had a small bio under Furyondy Characters and Forces starting on page 38 of the Marklands.

    I also agree a few more notes or just a single page of condensed information with 1-3 sentences regarding the Key Rulers, the King and 7 Families with a sentence or two for Provincial Nobility would have been more interesting and useful especially Major House Heraldry.

    King Belvor Fairwain, LG Pal 15, Fairwain Province, Wife: .... Deceased, Son/Heir Prince Thrommel Fairwain, LG Pal 12, Missing since ...., Engaged....Lady Jadale of Veluna

    Key Provincial Nobles each with a line item along with a Few Open Noble Houses.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:59 am  

    I stand mostly corrected! Embarassed Its been longer than I thought since I looked at The Marklands indepth.

    You are right in that it would have been great to have a few sentences on the nobility of the provinces and especially the family heraldries as well. Talk about a missed opportunity for a nice flashy color page layout on the back cover or interior!

    Well, the short bios on the province rulers give at least some of the family names(based on the ruler names):

    House Jemien of The Barony of Littleberg

    House Rhavelle of The Gold County

    House Derwent of The Viscounty of the March

    House Butrain of The Barony of Willip

    House Tynamen of The Duchy of the Reach

    I guess the noble family of Crystalreach died to the last member defending their lands against Iuz and were replaced wholely with Artur Jakartai. Still, it would be nice to know who preceeded the Wise One.

    Fairwain is as good a surname as any for Belvor's ilk.

    That leaves only Crystalreach and Kalinstren to find family names for. Things are not as bleak as I thought! Happy
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    Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:41 am  

    With the Barony of Littleberg you could go either way as he is just listed as Baron Jemian for the province ruler listing in the Marklands and LGG BUT under Furyondy Characters and Forces page 40 of the Marklands he is listed as Baron Jemian of Littleberg.

    Count Artur Jakartai replaced Count Paulus Halpern as ruler of the province known as the County of Crystal Reach. Halpern was lost, believed killed by Iuz's forces (Lost Grabford the former Capital) and died without issue page 20 Marklands.

    It really seemed odd to me that Halpern didn't have a first, second or even third cousin around (Particularly a Ne'er Do Well, Living in a different province) to contest and inherit the province but that is according to canon (Marklands and LGG).

    For the province of Kalinstren in the Marklands the ruler was listed as Baron Kalinstren on page 17 on page 40 of the Marklands Jelleneth is listed as Baron Kallinstren's daughter. In LGG the ruler of the Barony of Kallinstren is listed as Baroness Jelleneth Kalinstren CG, level 9 human Fighter.

    Hope that helps with your last two questions.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:10 am  

    castlemike wrote:

    I also agree a few more notes or just a single page of condensed information with 1-3 sentences regarding the Key Rulers, the King and 7 Families with a sentence or two for Provincial Nobility would have been more interesting and useful especially Major House Heraldry.


    Amongst the many half-finished files on my computer is an incomplete list of the noble houses of the Flanaess (taken from Canon and LG). From my days as LG overseeer of Ahlissa, I have a partial set of family trees (and house heraldry) for the Darmens and other Ahlissan nobles (ditto for Onnwal, btw). The latter will hopefully see light of day if I ever get the LG Gazetteer of the Splintered Sun metaregion finished.

    The former needs more work to trawl for noble houses from LG.

    So much to do, so little time. Confused

    P.
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    Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:17 am  

    A further thought on the name of the Furyondian royal house. As the ruling house of Nyrond appears to be Rax-Nyrond (as in Lynwyrd Rax-Nyrond, might the ruling house of Furyondy have been Ferrond?

    King Belvor Ferrond anyone?

    Fairwain does have a certain ring to it. However, the capital and the Royal Court was moved to the province of Fairwain some decades after the proclamation of Ferrondi independence. So, unless the house changed its name then or since, why would Thrommel I have picked the name of a then obscure province as the name of his house (though I suppose, Fairwain might have been the ancestral lands of Thrommel's family)?

    P.
    GreySage

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    Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:18 pm  

    Both "Ferrond" and Fairwain" have the "Fair" sound in them. If the suffix -ond in Old Oeridian means "land" (as in Nyrond), then Ferrond might translate as "the Fair Land" in that language.

    A "wain" is a large open farm wagon, or the constellation Ursis Major.

    So Viceroy Stinvri might have ruled the province of Fairwagon in the Fair Land.

    Of course, it's been argued that "Ferrond" means the Far Land instead (and Nyrond means the Near Land). If we assume Ferrond has the same root as Fharlanghn, that becomes even more likely.

    But it's also possible that "Fairwain" was originally "Ferrwain" - Far Wagon - and only became known as Fairwain later on.

    In any case, it might reasonably have been the location of the first settlement in Furyon, named for similar reasons. Even when the capital of Ferrond was founded in Dyvers, the hereditary ruler of Fairwain might have been the logical choice as king, either for his own merits or the virtue of the antiquity of his province.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:44 am  

    Does Nyr Dyv mean Sea Deep?

    If yes, is Nyr-ond connected to that? Does it make sense that Nyrond is Blue Land?
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    Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:25 pm  

    Nyr = Lake
    Dyv = Deep (or Unnumbered Depths)

    Hence Nyrond would be:

    Nyr = Lake
    ond = Land or territory (in Old Oeridian - we also have Ferrond for example).
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:23 pm  

    Which I still say is poor.

    First, Nyrond is not on the lake.
    Second, it means Dyvers is "Water Deep" instead of "Lake City."
    Third, it means the Velverdyva becomes something like "Deep Green Moon River" instead of "River of the Moon, the Green Hills, and the Deep Lake." (Much more reasonable considering it passes through Veluna, Verbobonc, and into the Nyr Dyv at Dyvers.)

    The Nyr in Nyr Dyv is not the same as the Ny in Nyrond.
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    Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:43 pm  

    *sings Deep Green Moon River*

    I see where Sam is coming from but isn't the 'Nehron' name root a relatively new concept in canon? Special naming conventions for the first run of the Darlene map seem to fall into simple patterns: Homages to real people (Gryrax, Leukish, etc), plays on regional word groupings (like the Nyr and Dyv argument), references to human races (Gradsul, Soull, Flanmi, etc) or unique prefixes/suffixes (Rel, Dra, Kro, so on). As they say the simplest explanation is the most likely one.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:13 am  

    Samwise wrote:
    Which I still say is poor.

    First, Nyrond is not on the lake.
    Second, it means Dyvers is "Water Deep" instead of "Lake City."
    Third, it means the Velverdyva becomes something like "Deep Green Moon River" instead of "River of the Moon, the Green Hills, and the Deep Lake." (Much more reasonable considering it passes through Veluna, Verbobonc, and into the Nyr Dyv at Dyvers.)

    The Nyr in Nyr Dyv is not the same as the Ny in Nyrond.


    The Nehron thing does make an argument for that - though I imagine that the convergence between the Flan Nyr and the Oeridian Neh(r) isn't conincidental. It's possible that the province was originally Nehrond (Nehr-land) in Old Oeridian and then when the Aerdi Viceregency of Nehrond expanded to include what is now the County Urnst (the Duchy was always Palatine to the Overking directly and not subject to the Viceroy of Rel Mord), it was corrupted by use to Nyrond (like Angleland becoming England).

    It might then be a common misconception that Nyrond means Lake Land (one perhaps encouraged by Nyrondese imperialists as a justification to annex the Urnsts as part of an ancient "Greater Nyrond"). Obviously the scholars of Radigast and Trigol would disagree... :)

    Dyvers - I wouldn't translate that as Waterdeep (the thought chills me to the bone!), but Deepings or something similar Middle English sounding.

    Velverdyva; breaking this down I see where you get green (Ver(t)), but Vel is surely vale, rather than moon (luna). So river of the deep green vale or deep river of the green vale or deeping of the verdant vale.

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    Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:14 am  

    I always took Nyr to mean "water", and Nyr Dyv as meaning Deep Water, and NOT Waterdeep. "Deep Water" in that order, word use, and applied to the location in context fits. In this instance, it is feasable to think of "Nyr Dyv" as a proper noun. It is a place name. To a Flan, a nyr dyv might be a water feature that one cannot see the bottom of. There could be other prefixes or suffixes or altogether different word combinations used to describe a waterway.

    Nyrond could mean "water land" for the two riviers that run through it, or "land by the water"(as it borders Rel Mord Bay after all) if one wishes.

    Anybody up creating and compiling a Flan phrase book? Heck, why stop there! Do all of the languages!!! Shocked


    Oh, poor Thrommel! Thou hast been highjacked yet again!

    EDIT: Oeridian changed to Flan. Embarassed
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 am  

    I thought Nyr Dyv was Flan? Isn't that in a sourcebook somewhere?

    Water = Nyr is a nice interpretation.

    P.
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    Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:37 am  

    Woesinger wrote:
    The Nehron thing does make an argument for that - though I imagine that the convergence between the Flan Nyr and the Oeridian Neh(r) isn't conincidental. It's possible that the province was originally Nehrond (Nehr-land) in Old Oeridian and then when the Aerdi Viceregency of Nehrond expanded to include what is now the County Urnst (the Duchy was always Palatine to the Overking directly and not subject to the Viceroy of Rel Mord), it was corrupted by use to Nyrond (like Angleland becoming England).


    Nope. As I pointed out to a certain netbot the other day, the person who created this canon (Roger Moore in tAB) also makes it clear that Nehron was based on the Duntide, Urnst (the unified state pre-GK) extended all along the eastern shore of the Nyr Dyv, and that they had diplomatic relations with Nehron "to the east". So that reasoning would require some serious anachronistic twisting.

    Quote:
    It might then be a common misconception that Nyrond means Lake Land (one perhaps encouraged by Nyrondese imperialists as a justification to annex the Urnsts as part of an ancient "Greater Nyrond"). Obviously the scholars of Radigast and Trigol would disagree... :)


    As long as people know that it shouldn't. :)

    Quote:
    Dyvers - I wouldn't translate that as Waterdeep (the thought chills me to the bone!), but Deepings or something similar Middle English sounding.


    Sorry, no. It was Rogered as "Dyv-vars" = "Deep Water".
    And it just sends me running for the porcelain alter.

    Quote:
    Velverdyva; breaking this down I see where you get green (Ver(t)), but Vel is surely vale, rather than moon (luna). So river of the deep green vale or deep river of the green vale or deeping of the verdant vale.

    P.


    Veluna was originally Voll, which is somewhere noted as being the same as Luna. It is apparently redundantly named bilingually. (And with a slurring of redundant letters - Voll-Luna to Veluna.)
    The "green" is from Verbobonc = Green Hills.

    /me jacks Thrommel a bit harder to teach him a lesson for being kidnapped
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    Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:13 am  

    Samwise wrote:
    Nope. As I pointed out to a certain netbot the other day, the person who created this canon (Roger Moore in tAB) also makes it clear that Nehron was based on the Duntide, Urnst (the unified state pre-GK) extended all along the eastern shore of the Nyr Dyv, and that they had diplomatic relations with Nehron "to the east".


    Yeah - I'm not disputing that. So the original root of Nyrond would have been Nehr-ond, "land of the Nehron" or something similar.

    Nehrond was conquered by Aerdy, as we know, soon after the Battle of a Fortnight's Length and organised into a Viceregency based in Rel Mord over a century later by Nasran Cranden. Now all the records say that it was organised as the Viceroyalty of Nyrond. It's argueable whether the territoriy and the royal house were called that at the time or whether they were called that in retrospect. What I mean here is that Nasran may have spoken of "Nehrond", but when later historians refer to that the Viceregency, they use the modern name Nyrond.

    The Urnsts were absorbed into Aerdy fairly late on (in the 2nd century CY). The Senate of Urnst effectively "sold" the Country Urnst to Aerdy sometime in the mid 2nd century and it was subsumed into the fief of the Viceroy of Nyrond (hence Nyrond's historical claim to the County). The Duchy was added later (close to the end of the 2nd Century, when the corruption in the sclerotic Urnsian Senate threatened to induce the collapse of civil order there) as a palatine fief beholden directly to the Overking (in part to check the burgeoning power of the Viceroy in Rel Mord and in part because the stiff necked Urnsians wouldn't submit to being vassals of anyone less than the overking himself - plus it had the advantage of putting their suzerain in Rauxes rather than Rel Mord - thus at a far more comfortable distance).

    My argument would be that between the middle 2nd Century CY when the County was absorbed into Nyrond and the middle 4th Century CY, when Nyrond broke away from the Great Kingdom, that the Oeridian Nehrond became corrupted into the Common Nyrond.

    Quote:
    It might then be a common misconception that Nyrond means Lake Land (one perhaps encouraged by Nyrondese imperialists as a justification to annex the Urnsts as part of an ancient "Greater Nyrond"). Obviously the scholars of Radigast and Trigol would disagree... :)


    Samwise wrote:

    As long as people know that it shouldn't. :)


    Well scholars would. Urnsians scholars in particular. The common man in Nyrond probably doesn't know much Flan anyway - but it might be one of those popular but false myths among the artisan and noble classes of Nyrond, supported and disseminated by nationalistic sages (those Nyrondese after all are known for their overweening pride).

    Quote:
    Dyvers - I wouldn't translate that as Waterdeep (the thought chills me to the bone!), but Deepings or something similar Middle English sounding.


    Samwise wrote:

    Sorry, no. It was Rogered as "Dyv-vars" = "Deep Water".
    And it just sends me running for the porcelain alter.


    Bah - a pox on Roger! :)
    Deepings can mean the same thing without sounding so damn Faerunian. :)

    Samwise wrote:

    Veluna was originally Voll, which is somewhere noted as being the same as Luna. It is apparently redundantly named bilingually. (And with a slurring of redundant letters - Voll-Luna to Veluna.)
    The "green" is from Verbobonc = Green Hills.


    Really? Voll = Luna?
    Hmmm... So Veluna is Moon-moon?
    That seems a bit silly. Voll/Vel = Vale seems a lot more sensible. I can't recall off the top of my head - what's the origin of Voll - is it Oeridian or Flan?
    Isn't there a rendering of Veluna in the LGG into Vale of the Great Moon?

    P.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:19 am  

    Of course, you can always say that the Oeridians adapted Nehron into Nyrond after a Flannae term that they liked and that sounded similar, as many facets of the Flan would become incorporated into the Oeridians who took them into their society. Or perhaps the Flan already referred to the area(or even only a portion of it) as Nyr Ond, and the change seemed a natural one, particularly if the change came about during a time when the Nehron were not in power(and a competing family would like to take the name out of the vernacular of the common people), and so it eventually became the Common name of Nyrond.

    After all, the Brits don't spell armour with a "u" because of Pictish influence. But then again, the Picts didn't impact the English language as did the Normans/French. Wink Conversely, the Oeridians now speak Common, which is either Old Oeridian with heavy Flan influences, or Flan with heavy Oeridian Influences.
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