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    Canonfire :: View topic - Anna's Atlas of the Flanaess
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    Anna's Atlas of the Flanaess [ Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next]
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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: Ahlissa

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    Thu May 22, 2008 8:24 am  

    Thanks alot Amalric Happy

    First let me state that the computers I use are way more than needed to start create great maps for your campaign, the reason I have them are that I have created huge parts of the world and I want to be able to work efficient with massive files of 2D and 3D graphics. With massive I mean files-sizes way over 1GB.

    I use two primary computers and 2 secondary without screens for rendering purposes.

    The first one is a QuadCore extreme QX9650, 8GB DDR3 RAM, 2TB HDD, Nvidia Quadro FX3500, Vista64 Ultimate.

    The second machineis an Athlon X2-64 6400+, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 1TB HDD, Nvidia Geeforce 8800GTS, Vista32 Ultimate.

    I use 3 main monitors a 30Ē and a 17Ē hooked up to my main machine, and a 24Ē to the secondary. Both computers share one keyboard/mouse which is possible by using Multiplicity.

    The software I use for my maps are Bryce5.5 to create and Corel PhotoPaintX4 to edit and stitch the renderings together. Then I use Corel DrawX4 to create symbols and heraldry and to assemble it all together.
    The large monitors are a big plus when you work with mapping, but the fast machines you will not need until you have worked a while so your files have gotten really big.

    Make sure to check out http://www.cartographersguild.com/ it's the perfect place to get tips tricks and advice on mapping your campaign Exclamation

    //Anna
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    From: The FAIRest VIEW in the PARK

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    Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:11 am  

    Site is looking great so far. As always, your work is top-notch. All the best in your endeavors.

    -O
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    Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:25 am  

    Thanks alot Omote Exclamation Happy

    //Anna
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    Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:26 am  

    Wonderful work Smile

    Love the new site; curious are you planning on mapping the entire Oerth or just the Flanaess. I am terribly greedy about quality maps and of course I hope the answer will be Oerth.

    No pressure; just the hopes and dreams of every artistically challenged gamer waits on your decision. Wink
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:16 pm  

    Thanks alot Crag Happy

    Responses like yours gives me lots of energy to continue my work.

    I wonít rest until I have mapped the whole planet, but to be able to effectively map I need detailed info on the terrain, settlements etc. The project to detail the rest of Oerth is of great interest to me and when Iím finished with the Flanaess there will be other parts with enough details so I can make maps of them too.

    Perhaps it could work the other way around too, me making maps and others fill in the details. But when Iím finished with the overview maps of the Flanaess I will do something a bit different for a while. Then it will be detailed maps and illustrations instead of large area maps. Like I have shown in early previews before Iím trying out new techniques and applications to try get good results.

    Already itís looking good. But I will keep that to myself for a while until I have some more finished work to show. But hopefully your plotter will be of good use to print out some nice Greyhawk posters to hang on your wall.

    //Anna
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    Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:35 am  

    Hello Anna anything new to add yet? It's been over a month and just wondering.
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    Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:58 am  

    Oh my god.

    I just found this thread.

    I mean...

    Oh

    my

    God.

    You rule!
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: Ahlissa

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    Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:10 pm  

    Thanks Katerek Happy

    Not much longer wait now Sjorn there will be new stuff available. I will finish the first version of my Nerie map this weekend.

    Have been working hard on terrain construction the past month,

    Preview screenshots will be up tomorrow Exclamation

    //Anna
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    Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:40 am  

    Here are two previews.

    First is a map of the Principality of Naerie as it is presented in the Living Greyhawk campaign.

    This map is a first try to present one realm of Greyhawk in a single map with a legend. Some new symbols and markings will also be introduced, local borders for example. I thought it could be a good thing to incorporate even local lordships names and borders when available. Please send me your thoughts when you have seen the initial version.

    My aim is to present my Flanaess work in 3 formats. First the area maps splitting up the Flanaess in equal sized pieces to be able to get all the detail of all areas using the same scale. Next is to make a big poster map of the whole Flanaess with towns and cities and other major features marked. Then present the different counties and realms in maps like the Naerie one. These will have different sizes and perhaps scales as needed.

    The second preview is the first VERY rough rendering of Veluna and the Lortmil mountains. I will be tweaking the terrain here and there to better match the sources and the texturing is in its infancy and will need more work to get the forests, settled areas, marches and other features in the right place.


    //Anna
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    Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:51 pm  

    Anna,

    I am late to the party but let me offer my highest praise for the work you have done on your Atlas of the Flanaess. Your mapmaking skill and artistry are without equal. The maps you create are functional and beautiful. I am entranced!

    With respect to your map of Naerie (Idee), it looks stunning and I eagerly look forward to having an opportunity to examine it in more detail when you upload it it your website.

    With respect to the rough map of Veluna, I am very interested to see the final product. While the central lands around the City of Greyhawk are the most famous in the Flanaess, the area of Veluna, to include Verbobonc and the Kron Hills is the second most famous as the home to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

    Your work is brilliant. Your dedication and effort are self-evident and greatly appreciated. Thank you so very much Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

    GVD Happy
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    Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:42 am  

    Creighton will be drooling over this latest map. Laughing
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:14 am  

    Iím honored GVD Happy

    You are very right when it comes to the most ďclassicĒ parts of the Flanaess you mention. There are so much sources and written material and maps to consider that this part is the most tricky to map. That is the reason I started with the area around Greyhawk City, to make sure I was up to the task. Veluna is truly a part of those classic grounds of the Flanaess.

    But I must again emphasize that my work would not be possible without all the great work and criticism you expert hawkers help me with Exclamation Exclamation

    Time to start drooling Creighton Laughing , the initial version of the Naerie map is available for download here:
    Jpg version http://ghmaps.net/maps/Naerie_v1.jpg
    Pdf version http://ghmaps.net/maps/Naerie_v1.pdf

    I havenít had time to update the website yet but these direct file links should work in the meantime. Please look it over and see what I have misplaced forgot or screwed up Wink

    //Anna
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    Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:21 am  

    Anna,

    Thank you for uploading the Naerie Map!!! It is wonderful!!!

    One note on the map, and this is a VERY minor point - The Menowood. The Naerie Map shows the Menowood occupying a break or pass in the Hollow Highlands between Naerie and Sunndi. The Darlene (Folio/83 Box) Map indicates that the Menowood covers portions of the Hollow Highlands - wooded hills. The text accompanying the 83 Box states at p. 59 of the Menowood: ďThe Hollow Highlands run through its eastern portion.Ē Perhaps the Naerie Map does not extend far enough east to see the wooded hills portion of the Menowood? Again, a very MINOR point.

    I completely understand about taking your time with the Veluna/Kron Hills/Verbobonc map. From your work to date, I have every confidence that the final map will be amazing!

    Thank you, again, for sharing your talent and work!!!
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    Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:40 am  

    Whoo hoo! This is getting really exciting now.

    I'm currently working on a Sterich gazeteer based largely on the recent Dungeon adventure path and the Red Hand of Doom which was shoe-horned into Sterich by Living Greyhawk.

    Are you going to include the Red Hand stuff in your version Anna as it is technically LG approved? In the one hand it's good because it pads out Sterich which is otherwise pretty sparsely detailed and it also means we can adapt the new adventure path in Dungeon to Sterich with a clear conscience. On the other hand, the maps don't quite track, with the Crystalmists on the Red Hand map bleeding right across into the Stark Mounds.
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    Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:20 am  

    Hmm I've had a quick look at the Sterch map from Dungeon 117. I will need to stretch out the locations a bit but I think it is doable.

    Davishcross becomes the town leading to Kalibac. Hillwatch can be the ruined keep south of Mittleberg (Brindol). Prosser and Dauth can be added as villages either side of Hillwatch. Talar is the ruined town downriver from Mittleberg and Drellin's Ferry is the final settlement before the river meanders off the page. Nimon Gap and Terrelton can be the last two keeps on the map.

    Lake Rhestin is annoying as I'm sure there is another Lake Restin in Berghof (Sea Princes) and it is really rather large. However, it could be placed in the Crystalmists as one source of the Davish if you flip the map around. The river valley could easily sport the Blackfens as well. Vraath Keep can be the final Keep at the foot of the mountains that guards the trail to the various mining settlements, Skull Gorge is on the way, and Rhest could be the keep that guarded the various mining settlements in the area around the lake. The Witchwood can then be squeezed onto the southwestern gap between the Jotens and the Crystalmists and Witchcross can the be southernmost ruined keep next to the Crystalmists on the Dungeon map, with Red Rock being the next one up.

    The Dwarfroad and the Westdeep forest are then both within the Crystalmists. So you end up with one trail from Drellin's Ferry leading to mining settlements, plus the dwarfroad that leads to the lake, various other mining settlements, and the uncommunicative lost dwarven holds deeper in the mountains.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:20 am  

    Anna, I noticed on your latest map we have Eileen Isles.....really cool! Happy I must say I had never heard of them before, what referance did they come from? Sounds like a must read. Any chance I can move there?
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    Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:45 am  

    I have to thank GVD for turning me on to it, but Anna, do you have the details from Slayer's Guide to Dragons for the Southern Yatils? Not exactly canon, but its Gygax and what, Aerth?
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    Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:14 am  

    Anna,
    As always very impressive.

    By viewing your maps, they show me how much I have yet to learn of the Flanaess. I do not know which is more impressive, the artistry of your maps or the amount of research you have performed in order to create them.
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    From: Ahlissa

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    Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:33 am  

    Wow lots of great feedback Happy

    Before I comment all your great posts I have to give credit to Simpi!! It thanks to him and the Naerie triad that I was able to make this map, his contribution and help was invaluable

    GVD. You are very right about Menowood and the Hollow Highlands, I was a bit lazy and didnít get it right so here are updated screenshots of an attempt to make it better:

    First an overview


    And a closeup.


    Hopefully this is a better representation of how it should look like, the estern part I haven't researched well yet. I havenít read through anything on Sunndi only looked a bit at the maps. But it is outside the Naerie map so Iíll have to get back to it and update it when I move east in the future.

    PaulN6. Your Streich gazeeteer project sounds very interesting and promising. I would love to intergrate the Redhand stuff. Your knowledge of the area is way better than mine so your help is a must.

    I have Dugneon #117 an took look at the article and it gives a wealth of information and the maps is a good start. I will be in London 11th to 16th of August so perhaps we could get together and discuss it further :-) (Iíll send you a mail or PM).

    The Eileen Isles comes from the Naerie triads available at their website: http://www.naerie.net/

    Their Gazetteer is well written and was a great help mapping the area.

    I donít think I have the details from Slayers guide to Dragons Wolfsire, where can I find them? Sounds like a must for a good map of the area. Thanks a lot for telling me :)

    Tank you Telemachus :)
    Research is about half the effort and perhaps even more time wise. Thankfully I have so much great help from you guys with the research and feedback. Then it takes time to make textures and experiment to see what works or not. Iíve spent countless hours all in all on my mapping but I love it and it is actually getting more and more fun the more I do it. A decade ago this was an idea and a vision, now it is a project well under way and I can even see it done eventually.

    In the mean time new visions are forming for future Greyhawk projectsÖÖ

    //Anna
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    Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:09 am  

    Anna, let me echo the sentiments of many here: bravo, bravo! These maps are beautiful! I can't wait to see more, and wish you all the best. Thank you for your work and for sharing it with us.
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    Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:13 am  

    Anna wrote:

    I donít think I have the details from Slayers guide to Dragons Wolfsire, where can I find them? Sounds like a must for a good map of the area. Thanks a lot for telling me :)
    //Anna


    I think that you would either have to get a copy (I just did and am still reading it), have some selected scans sent to you (which I cannot, but I think would be ok to suggest here because of the very limited scope) or some fairly lengthy discussion. But I do think it is worth it. In the book, names and places have been changed, but once you see though that, it is the story of a dragon magically bread by Iggy for her daugher, who gatherered the reminents of her army in a vale north of Mitrik. There are a few place names that can be added and a small swamp. Maybe a few other things. Not to give him work, but GVD would probably be a better person to work with on that as he is more knowledgeable, but if he is unavailabe and or you dont want to get a copy for yourself ($8.25 used at amazon), I be happy to work with you by pm. There is an online supplement, probably not useful for mapping here: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/ravage_of_ghorkai.pdf
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    Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:30 pm  

    There's a map in Rescue at Rivenroar of the same area from Red Hand of Doom, though someone would have to explain how it's supposed to fit in Sterich.
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    Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:10 am  

    Yes, the distances are all mucked up but I think the best thing is to stick with the LG maps from Dungeon. If you rotate the Elsir map anticlockwise 90 degrees you end up with mountains to the left and right, the road is the road to Istivin, the Elsir River becomes the Davish River.

    Need to downsize the Witchwood & Lake Rhestin and stick the lake actually up in the mountains. If I get time I might have a go on photoshop one weekend with the Dungeon map but there's no hurry as Anna has more than enough to be getting on with for now!
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    Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:44 pm  

    Excellent update Anna Happy .

    I don't know much about the Naeri area or Sunndi to be of much help on the information there. Sad

    I really want to see the the northwest region( Burneal Forest), so keep at it Wink .
    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:14 am  

    PaulN6 wrote:
    Yes, the distances are all mucked up but I think the best thing is to stick with the LG maps from Dungeon. If you rotate the Elsir map anticlockwise 90 degrees you end up with mountains to the left and right, the road is the road to Istivin, the Elsir River becomes the Davish River.

    Need to downsize the Witchwood & Lake Rhestin and stick the lake actually up in the mountains. If I get time I might have a go on photoshop one weekend with the Dungeon map but there's no hurry as Anna has more than enough to be getting on with for now!


    Something like this?

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    Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:26 am  

    Very cool rasgon. It does change some of the encounters out of the module, but not terribly so. BTW, how do you insert an image into a post here? Again, well done.
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    GreySage

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    Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:35 am  

    gargoyle wrote:
    BTW, how do you insert an image into a post here? Again, well done.


    Thanks. I upload it to Photobucket.com first, then use the [img] tag.
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    Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:55 pm  

    Anna wrote:
    . . . GVD. You are very right about Menowood and the Hollow Highlands, I was a bit lazy and didnít get it right so here are updated screenshots of an attempt to make it better:

    First an overview


    And a closeup.


    //Anna


    No problem. This looks great! Pleased to provide assistance. Smile
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    Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:25 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Something like this?



    Lol - very good! I think we need a little bit more artistic licence though as the Dungeon map has some unamed settlements on its map which should double as the Elsir Vale locations and the road and river don't follow quite the same route but that is a very helpful start!

    I also get the impression that we have several dwarven holds in the Crystalmists as well as the ones shown in the Jotens.
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    Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:37 am  

    This looks very interesting Smile

    I have to take my mapping west after area 58 where Iím currently at and take on the whole Sheldomar valley.

    Iíll make a first version of the terrain for the whole valley to get all the big things in roughly the right place. Then I can start to work on the details of Sterich to make a map like my Naerie one to include in your gazetteer PaulN6.

    It will take me about a month or so to get the basic terrain features right so I can start mapping the details.

    Another interesting thing is the suggested Urnst postfest. I have mapped almost all of the Urnst countries and when I looked at the maps there are corrections to make. But it would be possible to make Urnst maps for the postfest with not too much work.

    Here is a early preview of area 58 (southern Veluna, western Celene and the Lortmils).



    //Anna
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    Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:00 am  

    Don't overwhelm Anna be patient folks Wink

    Do what you want to do Anna. Don't get burned out; take your time.

    Btw; a couple areas I would like to see... Laughing
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    Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:41 pm  

    Anna,
    These are great maps thank you.

    I have a question about the meaning of certain things
    that I could not find on the map legend.

    The greyed out servants tower near greyhawk what is that?
    The greyed out town of Zarak near greyhawk what is that?
    The fort of Highpass near geyhawk has a small square
    in it not big enough for a keep what does that denote?

    Thanks much,
    Kevin
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    Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:10 pm  

    You are very right about the legend, its not updated.

    The grayed out symbols are ruined versions of settlements, castles, towers etc.

    The ruin near Greyhawk is the famous Castle Greyhawk.

    Here is a reference to Zarak:
    "After half a decade of struggle, the house of Highforge, one of the more prominent dwarven clans in Irongate, emerged as discoverer and holder of the starstone's wealth. A port was established on the waterless coasts where the Abbor Alz touches the Bright Desert, and a secret trail was established leading inland. Highforge and its allies maintained thorough secrecy, and for good reason: iron, platinum, gold, mithral, and adamantite began to pour out into the world at large through the carefully guarded harbor. Few have reported concerning the mine inland, but from peripheral comments it appears that the dwarves discovered a broad depression of fused and shocked rock marking the landing point of their prize and established themselves in a nearby mesa from which they coordinated a well-planned mining operation. They dug deep artesian wells and established cisterns. The mine and settlement they called Azak-Zil, or Pureheart.

    For five years, Highforge swelled with wealth; there were disruptions in metal markets as far away as Rauxes. Then, abruptly, the flow was cut off. The port city of Zarak remained, but communications with the mines ceased and probes into the interior found the roads to be erased and the dust storms to be intolerable. Members of a powerful expeditionary force disappeared suddenly and silently at night, even from guarded tents. Clan Highforge, after expending much of its considerable fortune in an attempt to find and retake the mines, took heed of unfavorable auguries and abandoned the effort. Zarak was abandoned as well."

    GREYHAWK Adventures hardcover, TSR 1988, p91

    I see now that its misplaced, it should be at the coast like this:


    An updated version of area 59 will be up soon. Thank you so much for brining Zarak to my attention.

    High Pass (if I remember correctly) have been labeled a castle from an Dungeon article about Hardy and its surroundings by Paul Looby. I only have it in paper form and not the time to find witch issue at the moment.

    The small square actually makes it bigger with more elaborate defenses.

    Hope this answer your questions

    //Anna
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    Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:43 am  

    Hardby is in Dungeon #109.
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    Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:53 pm  

    Thanks Anna for the quick response.
    Absolutly love the maps.

    Where can I get that info on Hardby Cebrion?
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    Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:40 am  

    PaulN6 wrote:
    rasgon wrote:
    Something like this?



    Lol - very good! I think we need a little bit more artistic licence though as the Dungeon map has some unamed settlements on its map which should double as the Elsir Vale locations and the road and river don't follow quite the same route but that is a very helpful start!

    I also get the impression that we have several dwarven holds in the Crystalmists as well as the ones shown in the Jotens.



    In Dungeon 118, the second adventure for Istivin has a good copy of the map of the area including the road from Mittleburg to Istivin. It would be a better starting point for meshing up the Red Hand/Scales of War Map than the big dungeon map.

    BTW, if you don't know how, and have acrobat (not reader) pm me for the password to unlock the maps/pdfs.
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    Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:33 am  

    daileyck1 wrote:
    Where can I get that info on Hardby Cebrion?


    Um...you go and buy a copy of Dungeon Magazine #109? Confused

    http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/d/dungeonsDragons/magazines/dungeon/downloads/v5748btpy7zcu
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    Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:34 pm  

    Cebrion or Anna or anyone
    Do you know of any more information on the area
    south of the neen river east of the selintan river.
    Basically a big raduis around hardby.

    Thankx for dungeon 109

    Kevin
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    Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:15 pm  

    "The Adventure Begins" or the "Ctiy of Greyhawk" blue box would be your best bet.
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    Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:37 am  

    If any thread deserves a STICKY, this one surely does. Cool

    Carry on stalwart cartographers.
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    Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:48 am  

    Thanks a lot Cebrion Exclamation

    Been away meeting other Cartographers in London for a week so Iím full of inspiration and tips, a work update will come later in the week.

    //Anna
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    Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:24 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    If any thread deserves a STICKY, this one surely does. Cool

    Carry on stalwart cartographers.


    Here! Here! Happy Good idea!
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    Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:58 am  

    As a degenerate cartophile I have to say that the maps in this thread are just beautiful. Keep up the mapping!
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    Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:32 pm  

    Hello.

    I've been busy for a while and actually did not get to see the map until recently Laughing

    If people have any questions regarding Naerie and what went on with Living Greyhawk, i'm happy to answer in this thread.

    Sampo Haarlaa
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    Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:45 am  

    Best to start a new thread on Naerie, as this one is specifically for Anna's maps and details relating to things that can be mapped on them.

    If you would like to archive the Living Greyhawk Naerie files here on Canonfire! then send any of the admins a PM, or use the "Feedback" option in the left margin. Please discuss this option with any other concerned parties. We'd be more than happy to create a special section for the purposes of archiving Living Greyhawk material, but before we do so, we need to have something to put in it. Happy


    Last edited by Cebrion on Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:50 am  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Best to start a new thread on Naerie, as this one is specifically for Anna's maps and details relating to things that can be mapped on them.

    If you would like to archive the Living Greyhawk Naerie files here on Canonfire! then send any of the admins a PM, or use the "Feedback" option in the left margin. Please discuss this option with any other concerned parties. We'd be more than happy to create a special section for the purposes of archiving Living Greyhawk material, but before we do so, we need to have something to put in it. :D


    I own www.naerie.net and fully intend to keep it going after LG ends. However, i'm more than happy to have it archived here. Hell, I can give you all the adventures I wrote for safekeeping.

    If people have interest for Naerie questions, PM me or start a new thread. That way I know to answer you.

    Sampo Haarlaa
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    Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:08 am  

    I think others will agree that Naerie has been one of the exemplary Living Greyhawk websites. I'm glad to hear that it will continue operating.
    People will surely be intersted in the adventures, articles, maps and other things. If you want to lead things off with regards to archiving, I'll chat with Gary about setting up a Living Greyhawk article section with regional subsections

    Collectively the Triads and other folks supporting Living Greyhawk have been responsible for crating a truly massive amount of material. Few people probably realize just how much work has been done during the course of the campaign, and to see how much there really is all at one time would probably blow peoples' minds. Cool
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    Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:53 am  

    Simpi wrote:
    I own www.naerie.net and fully intend to keep it going after LG ends. However, i'm more than happy to have it archived here. Hell, I can give you all the adventures I wrote for safekeeping.

    If people have interest for Naerie questions, PM me or start a new thread. That way I know to answer you.

    Sampo Haarlaa
    Naerie Triad


    You star! It would be so wrong if all that hard work were to end up the way of the Duchy of Tenh. I hope a lot of other Triad members show the same dedication.

    Maybe for starters we could have an LG archive with the timelines listed. If we can set this up on canonfire it would give other Triad regions a point of reference for their own timelines. I don't think there will be any copyright issues if we're only talking about official outcomes to key adventures in summary format. Goeff and Keoland already took a stab at this on their individual yahoo forums.
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    Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:55 am  

    LG is imho a great contribution to the Greyhawk campaign, and hopefully the material will not be forgotten or inaccessible in the future. We must see to it that somehow all the material somehow will be published in print or digitally on the web when the LG closes. Canonfire would be good home for such an archive. I have made a small first contribution with my LG Naerie map with much helpful guidance from Sampo Haarlaa.

    I have to mention that all my maps are available and free to use in all non commercial efforts to present Greyhawk material. The license I use even permits you to reuse my work in your own work, but a mention of the source is greatly appreciated. My pdfís makes it easier since you can extract just the things you want.

    So on to the latest updates.
    Work is continuing on area 58 with a lot of corrections issues to the surrounding maps becoming apparent, especially area 45. I seemed to have rushed things a bit and havenít got the distances right. Mitrik and most of the northern Velunese settlements are to be moved a bit more south. So I have to make adjustments to the terrain and area maps to get everything in the right place. This just shows that what Iím doing is very much a work in progress. The only maps that is reasonably finished or so I though where area 59, the first one I made. But my texturing skills have improved a bit since I did the terrain so I canít resist the temptation to enhance them to the same standard as the latest areas.

    Here is a snapshot of area 58:



    The terrain is almost ready, it needs some more work in the south west and north west. Most of the heraldry are done and awaits final positioning. I have started to place settlements and borders. There will be new version of many of my area maps along with this one but I wait until I have incorporated all the adjustments on my to do list.

    Thanks again for all help and great input Happy

    //Anna
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    Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:50 am  

    PaulN6 wrote:
    rasgon wrote:
    Something like this?



    Lol - very good! I think we need a little bit more artistic licence though as the Dungeon map has some unamed settlements on its map which should double as the Elsir Vale locations and the road and river don't follow quite the same route but that is a very helpful start!

    I also get the impression that we have several dwarven holds in the Crystalmists as well as the ones shown in the Jotens.


    Isn't the suggested positioning of Elsir Vale, mapped above, contra to the text of Red Hand of Doom? The above placement is entirely within Sterich. The adventure states suggests Elsir Vale be placed "in the borderlands between Sterich, Geoff and the Gran March" Red Hand of Doom, p. 8. As Sterich already has lots of detail from the Dungeon Magazine adventure trilogy, I think the placement "between sterich, Geoff and the Gran March" might be better from a setting development standpoint. No?
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    Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:03 am  

    Anna wrote:
    I have to mention that all my maps are available and free to use in all non commercial efforts to present Greyhawk material. The license I use even permits you to reuse my work in your own work, but a mention of the source is greatly appreciated. My pdfís makes it easier since you can extract just the things you want. //Anna


    Can you point to the exact language of this license, please? Is it available for download somewhere? I would wish to be ceratin of its terms and my compliance were I to use any of the maps as you suggest.

    As it happens, I have been exploring the possibility of putting together a professionally and privately published, definitely not for profit, GH chapbook or chapbooks. I don't yet have all the details worked out (if I ever get there!) but my thought was to key off some of your maps or to at least include some of them. I would be quite interested therefore in looking over the license you describe!

    NB - It was my thought that if I went ahead, I would naturally send a copy of the chapbook, gratis, to everyone whose material I used.

    NBB - Just to be clear, I would absolutely seek and obtain permission from anyone whose material Iwanted included before using such!!!

    NBBB - Again, the chapbook idea is only in its infancy and I don't have all the details worked out. I would not have mentioned it but for your very helpful reference to a specific license by which I might be able to include your wonderful maps!!! Your maps, and Eileen's long ago idea for a "GH starter kit," along with the recognition that there are a lot of wonderful CF articles "just laying there" so to speak, put the idea in my mind.
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    Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:11 am  

    Sounds like a very cool project GVD Smile

    For my Atlas of the Flanaess maps I have used the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 Unported license.

    What it means basically is that everyone is free to copy, distribute and remix the work. Under the condition it is for a non commercial purpose and that the source is acknowledged. A full statement is available here: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/

    To use this license you donít have to tell me, you can just go ahead and use my work according to the license. I WANT my maps to be copied and used as much as possible, they are the product of passionate and hard work and it would be a shame to not let them be used wherever possible.
    The only things I donít accept are if someone is making money from them or claim to have made them!

    If someone would like to use any of the maps in a commercial product I have to look it over and decide on a case per case basis. That is what I have to say, the truth is that I would be honored beyond belief and if it would be possible without WotC complaining I would only ask for a small refund if the product was a great success.

    These are my thoughts about others using my Flanaess work. So I Ďm honored even being asked Happy

    GVD I can supply you with high resolution originals or separated images or special versions adapted to suit the layout of the book whatever you need, Iíll do my best to help out. Good luck with your project and donít hesitate to contact me.

    When it comes to the question of where to place the Elisir Valley Iíll save this info and get back to it when I have read through the sources and had some time to digest it all. But this is exactly the kind of info and discussion I like because it gives me so much more info to work with and will add lots of details to the area Exclamation

    //Anna
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    Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:05 pm  

    Well, if somebody wanted to use Anna's maps and actually publish them as part of something that would make money, Anna would be the least of their worries(as the IP is property of WotC/Hasbro).
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    Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:58 am  

    Agree with you Cebrion!

    Time for an updated preview screenshoot of Sq58:


    The terrain is complete apart from some tiny corrections. Borders and heraldry are almost complete and the work with settlements has begun.
    The northern part of the Duchy of Ulek seems to be devoid of settlements, so if you know of any or even better a detailed map Iím very interested.

    //Anna
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    Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:41 pm  

    I've basically read the first and last pages of this, so I apologize if it's been covered.

    Anna, will you continue to post here when you get a new piece done? Is there a mailing list or RSS feed we can subscribe to for the same purpose? Any chance Hasbro has contacted you to use/finish this for their upcoming Greyhawk reboot?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:41 am  

    First let me answer the questions.

    Yes I will continue to post news to this thread here at Canonfire, in fact I post more here than anywhere else. That is because this forum is very important for me, YOU and with that I mean all you knowledgeable hawkers who frequent this site more than any other are invaluable for my work. You give me the feedback and criticism I need to make my maps.

    The blog I have on my website ghmaps.net has an RSS-feed: http://iloapp.ghmaps.net/blog/blog?RSS

    When it comes to contacts with WotC or Hasbro I can say that I havenít had any contact with them about the Greyhawk reboot or anything else.

    So now on to my latest release, the initial version of area 58:



    There is an updated version of area 59 available as well, to match 58. I did the initial version of 59 almost four years ago and still there are details to be corrected and added. So Iím sure there are lots of things to change and add on area 58, so please scrutinize it thoroughly so I can get things right.

    They are both available at http://ghmaps.net

    An updated map of area 45 will be published shortly to fit in with area 58.
    When that is done Iím going back to Onnwal and the Dragonhead Peninsula. With expert help from Stuart Kerrigan I will make a special map of LG Onnwal. Then it is back to the Lortmil mts again to continue work on area 71.

    My plan is to try and keep a schedule of one map a month, Onnwal in October and area 71 in November.

    There is a small chance I can manage to get the western part of Nyrond ready by xmas :)

    //Anna
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    Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:37 am  

    Just in time Anna! Thanks, 58 and 59 are going to prove very useful in my Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game. Thanks a bunch! You are one dedicated cartographer! Can't wait till you tackle the Sheldomar.


    btw, on 58, what is Dorub Kithduum? and where can I find info on Clan Rockhammer. Both of these are directed at the community in general, not specifically at Anna.
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    Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:45 am  

    MikelAmroni wrote:
    Just in time Anna! Thanks, 58 and 59 are going to prove very useful in my Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game. Thanks a bunch! You are one dedicated cartographer! Can't wait till you tackle the Sheldomar.


    btw, on 58, what is Dorub Kithduum? and where can I find info on Clan Rockhammer. Both of these are directed at the community in general, not specifically at Anna.


    Same question as Mike and a great thank's to anna for her great maps.

    Hop i can make translation to french but it seem does not work with illustrator that dont want to open the pdf ... if any one can help thank by advanced from a french man (and sorry for my english).
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    Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:28 am  

    Thanks for the interest Happy

    The source for Dorub Kilthduum is an article in the Oerth Journal no1 issue#9, by Jeff McKillop.

    Here is the part:
    ďAt the headwaters of the Clearwater River lies the ruined stronghold of the Kilthduum clan of mountain dwarves. During the Hateful Wars, a fleeing horde of orcs deceived the stronghold defenders into believing them to be a returning dwarvish patrol. Gaining control of the main gate, the orcs swept through the halls and slaughtered its inhabitants, mostly females and children, in a mad frenzy. When the Kilthduum warriors returned to the hold after the Hateful Wars, they found it firmly in the grasp of the orc invaders. Repeated attacks proved fruitless, and in a final act of vengeance the Kilthduum High Priestess of Berronar, Gilvgola, called a curse down upon the stronghold. She climbed the cliffs above the entrance and cast herself from them as a sacrifice to Berronar. The goddess heard her plea, and the entire cliff face broke away, burying Gilvgola and the entrance under thousands of tons of rubble. The warriors left their once-great stronghold and scattered to various parts of the Flanaess.Ē

    Clan Rockhammer is a LG Veluna invention. You can find all the info at:
    http://www.veluna.net/index.html

    Astemok, begin by hiding the layers you want to translate in the pdf version of the map. Then you export the image as a jpeg and get a background image without test or symbols or both. Then you use that jpeg as a backdrop in whatever program you want for your French version. Good luck!

    //Anna
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    Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:08 am  

    Just wanted to say WOW to those maps. I know it's the wrong campaign setting for this but I wanted to stuff those maps into my pouch and grab my hoopak for my new journey. Laughing

    Jim
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    From: Ahlissa

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    Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:04 pm  

    Thanks alot Jim!!! Happy

    Here is a first rough preview of area71. Terrain is very much a work in progress but I wanted you to have a peak into what Iím working on.



    //Anna
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    Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:32 am  

    Worshippers take heart! The second step on the path to divinity has been achieved as Anna is paid homage by the mighty sages of the Oerth Journal. If we can just get her to level 30 before 5th edition comes out, Anna's status as an Exarch is assured.
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    Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:02 am  

    Iím deeply honored to be recognized by an assembly with such high standing and knowledge, Thank you Paul :)
    To try and continue to aspire to divinity itís time to publish an screenshot of area 71:



    Itís very close to ready for a release and an initial version will be published within a week.

    //Ann
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    Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:09 am  

    Got a chance to get it done today! Happy

    An initial version of area map 71 is available for download in jpg and pdf formats



    It covers the southern part of the Sheldomar Valley, please check it for errors and missing things.

    You can download it from http://ghmaps.net

    //Anna
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    Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:46 am  

    Anna-
    I'd be interested to know what the political boundry encloses in the Lortmil Mts. where the word "Lortmil" appears on Map 71...Also, shouldn't it be "71" in the middle square of the map guide in the bottom right hand corner?...
    Thanks,
    Kwint
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    Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:16 am  

    Corrected version of map 71 is uploaded, thanks a lot for telling me Kwint Smile . Hurried the release a bit too much and forgot to change the numbering.

    The areas of wilderness in the Lortmil Mts are just that wilderness areas not really claimed by any political entity. In todayís real world we are used to the fact that every sq mile of land belongs to a country of some sort. But back in medieval times there were lots of land outside any organized political control.

    My view of the Flanaess are very much like that some areas are simply too remote or hostile in various ways to belong to a state or other political entity. The borders lines on my maps reflect this.

    //Anna
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    Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:06 pm  

    Anna wrote:
    Corrected version of map 71 is uploaded, thanks a lot for telling me Kwint Smile .


    You're more than welcome...

    Anna wrote:
    The areas of wilderness in the Lortmil Mts are just that wilderness areas not really claimed by any political entity. In todayís real world we are used to the fact that every sq mile of land belongs to a country of some sort. But back in medieval times there were lots of land outside any organized political control.


    Fair enough...I wasn't sure if it was some xenophobic independent dwarven enclave or some such developed in Living Greyhawk or buried deep in canon somewhere..

    Kwint
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    Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:52 am  

    Hello from a new (italian) user.

    Anna, i'm watching your maps with my mouth open and drooling.... this is a fantastic job!

    I have a question:
    there's any chance to have the names in the map translated in italian?
    I don't mean that you should do it, i just want to know if i can translate them and then see the names in your maps....
    .... maybe by editing your source names layers (guessing: photoshop layers?) and sending them back to you to be "inserted" in the final PDF....

    ... i can live with english maps. But i'm the DM of my 9 and 11 years kids, and english is not somewhat they can chew right now.

    Anyway, many compliments again.
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    From: Ahlissa

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    Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:01 am  

    Thank you Parduz Happy

    The easiest way for you to change the names or insert own ones are to export a jpg from the pdf maps with layers turned off. That way you can have a map with just the info you want and nothing else. Most of the fonts Iíve been using are available online from various fonts sites.

    The CC license I published my maps under gives you the right to use and change and share my maps in any for you like as long as you mention your work is based on mine and it is for a non-commercial purpose. So please use my maps as a base for your own work!

    //Anna
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    Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:41 pm  

    Is the mega map due to be updated with the new pg71 map?

    (FWIW, my vote is for more pages rather than updating the big map if prioritizing is an issue.)
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    Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:26 am  

    There will be an updated mega map sometime during spring next year after I have done areas 48 and 61. It will be a proper map of the Central Flanaess ready for print big style:!:!

    Speaking of printing Game-Printer Michael K Tumey have added my maps to his printing service. So those of you who wants large size printouts of my maps head to http://www.shop.gamer-printshop.com/ecommerce/ where you can order printouts of all my maps. I have send him huge high res files to get the best results.

    For the moment Iím working on updating the Onnwal to be included in a campaign pdf and a realm map will be released shortly.

    //Anna
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    Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:56 am  

    Anna,

    Are the maps you've uploaded to Gamers Printshop even more hi-res than the ones that have been posted on your site for some time? The reason I ask is that over the years I have had Gamers Printshop print a number of your maps already, but these were in 2007 and earlier this year. Are the maps up there now even better print quality?

    -O
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    Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:44 am  

    Anna,
    could you update the legend please.

    Thank you
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    Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:48 pm  

    Am I the only one who can't seem to download the maps from Anna's site? I tried to download some of the PDF maps tonight, but I was unable to, sayong the requested site was either unavailable or no longer exsts. Anyone?
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    Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:45 am  

    First of all Iím going to apologize for my long absence from Canonfire and all other great forums I usually frequent.

    Real life in the form of work and other obligations were too much the past two months for me do any mapping and posting. But now things are getting back to more normal circumstances again! :-)

    So Iím picking up my mapping tools were I dropped them around Needfest to continue my work again. First on my list of things to do is to fix the broken links on my website. Then Iím going to update the legend to reflect the new and updated symbols I have on my latest maps.

    Omote the maps I have sent to Gamers Printshop are 600dpi compared to 200dpi for the versions that are available on ghmaps.net. These figures are for the terrain bitmap, the rest are vector based graphics and therefore not resolution dependent in the same way.

    During my absence I have received lots of additional material covering Onnwal (from Stuart Kerrigan) and Keoland (from Paul Newland), thank you both for your help. Updated maps are near completion and will be finished in a few weeks.

    I have done lots of base work on Nyrond which I will start to make into maps of the Kingdom and surrounding areas during spring.

    When Nyrond are done I have the base for a first Wall Map of the central Flanaess that you will be able to use or print and hang on the wall.

    I have done more research into making city and local maps and making progress. But that is something I will put on a hold now and sit down at my desk at home and continue my Atlas of the Flanaess project again, and again Iím sorry for the delay.

    Anna
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    Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:39 am  

    Don't apologise oh Great One - just smite the unbelievers and reward the faithful.

    Real life sucks. If I could give up work I'd make much more progress.
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    Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:34 am  
    Broken links

    Anna,
    I noticed that several of the links that point to PDFs are broken (45, 46, 47, 58, 59, 60).

    Also, is there a copy of the Legend anywhere on your site?

    Your work is simply amazing and I cannot thank you enough.

    edit: Well they're working now. /shrug



    Ba'alzemon
    d#%n typos!
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    Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:25 am  

    Good to have you back Anna...

    I think your situation has been similar to many as I have noticed forum discussions have been lower recently. (I also have been one that has been diverted from being on this site as much as in the past).
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    Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:05 pm  

    Anna,

    Nice maps. I never noticed this thread before (never surfed the forums until recently).

    I'll soon be uploading a map of the Bandit Kingdoms and surrounding areas that was created by Eric Andondson and modified by the BK Triad for the Living Greyhawk campaign (will be part of my upcoming postfest submission). That map will give you some locations for cities, etc., which you can add to your map if you wish.

    Also, it's nice to see the shield for Redhand that I created for LG use adopted for your map. :)

    Casey
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    Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:59 am  

    The pdf links on ghmaps.net have been updated and should be working again, thank you Baalzemon for alerting me!

    An updated legend will be on the site this weekend with all the new symbols.

    Thank you all for your patience during this long time without any updates and new work. I am beginning to get my mapping up to speed again. After the legend there will be a new Onnwal area map released with lots of new and corrected LG information on it (thanks to Stuart Kerrigan).

    Then Iím setting my sights on The Kingdom of Nyrond and the eastern part of Bandit Kingdoms so your work aurdraco are most welcome, and thank you for making that heraldry Smile

    A revamped version of ghmaps.net website is also in the early stages of construction.

    Those are the plans for spring 2009.

    Anna
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    Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:13 pm  
    Anna's Maps, and the BK

    First, let me say - Anna, your work is absolutely amazing, and I have loved your stuff for years. Your "absence" has in no way kept me from adoring and extensivly using the work that you have done. I am especially excited about your upcoming work on the Bandit Kingdoms. They were my home region during the Living Greyhawk campaign, and I still love them to death. (Which sadly, I had to live up to twice in the BK ... death often happens to Seditionists agains the Church of Iuz.) Wink

    Secondly, Aurdraco ... it is great to see you on these forums. You were a great driving force in the LG Bandit Kingdoms, and we loved the work that you did for us. I will be thrilled to see LG material have input into Anna's maps.
    Now, I have to see if I can manage abscond with some of your "behind-the-scenes" Triad material! Shocked This is one Bandit that would love to get his hands on some of that loot! Happy

    Icarus
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    Thu May 21, 2009 1:11 pm  

    Finally its out the door, a ĒnewĒ or at least very updated map. Onnwal with LG information added. Special thanks to Stuart Kerrigan and several others for all your help!



    You can get a full size JPG version here:

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Onnwall_v1.jpg
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    Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:45 am  

    Cheers Anna!

    Thank you for your newest endeavor, and I am, as always, greatly impressed with your technical eye and love for detail.
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    Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:11 am  

    Anna,

    Your Onnwal is beautiful and a work of genius!!! Congratulations on another tour de force!!!

    Is there an easy way for me to edit the map to remove the Scarlet Brotherhood name and shield and its territorial boundary. IMC, the Brotherhood has been completely kicked out of Onnwal. Not a criticism but just asking.

    Great, great work, Anna!!! Thank you for your artistry!!!

    GVD
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    Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:11 pm  

    Thank you very much Shadrach :-)

    GVD might this be what you are looking for? Wink



    I started to write a guide to how you can use the layers function on the pdf maps to hide layers and then cut and paste, but realized it was quicker for me to make a version free of the Brotherhood occupation. You can download the full-sized versions using the links below:

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Onnwall_v3Special.jpg

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Onnwall_v3Special.pdf
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    Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:04 am  

    Anna wrote:
    Thank you very much Shadrach :-)

    GVD might this be what you are looking for? Wink



    I started to write a guide to how you can use the layers function on the pdf maps to hide layers and then cut and paste, but realized it was quicker for me to make a version free of the Brotherhood occupation. You can download the full-sized versions using the links below:

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Onnwall_v3Special.jpg

    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/296601/Onnwall_v3Special.pdf


    Brilliant, Anna! Exclamation Thank you! Happy The SB intrusion into the Flanaess and Iuz's expansion are certainly canon but for me have always been problematic because both seem clearly near term and temporary. Your work is for the ages and better, IMO, without casting in stone the receding tides of the SB's and Iuz's momentary gains/influence. I very much appreciate the more "pristine" alternative! Thank you so much! Happy Your maps are scholarship and beauty combined in one killer package! Happy
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    Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:47 pm  

    Anna,
    Simply amazing! As always your work is truly breathtaking.

    I've been away from this site for a while; I've been trying to get a writing career going...
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    Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:12 pm  

    Anna,

    Allow me to be the umpteenth person to praise your work.

    Besides the obvious, I like the fact that it's a work in progress, and thefore being constantly perfected.

    Happy
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    Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:49 am  
    Say...

    Hi all,

    Just wondering how soon you're getting to "my" neck of the woods and South Province, Anna?

    ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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    Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:46 am  

    Uh, oh.

    I eagerly printed off map #72 for use in one of my current campaigns, with the intent of using Anna's detailed topography for my maps. I found a problem...

    Using the distances from my campaign maps, which are based on the old Darlene maps, I came up with the following straight-line, as-the-crow-flies disatnces:

    Courwood - meeting point of the Handmaiden & Jewel Rivers: 60 miles;

    Courwood - Badwall: 120 miles;

    Badwall - Elredd City: 80 miles.

    Using the Anna map, I come up with the following:

    Courwood - meeting point of the Handmaiden & Jewel Rivers: 25 miles;

    Courwood - Badwall: 90 miles;

    Badwall - Elredd City: 105 miles.

    Now, I'm aware of Darlene's habit of plunking towns in the middle of a hex, whether it made any sense or not (thus the later GH creation of Port Elredd!), but that would only make a difference of (at most) 15 miles; I always took the exact location of particular towns on the Darlene map with the proverbial grain of salt, and used judgement. I intended to use the Anna map, and if it was a little different from mine (say, a 5-10% difference), I'd suck it up, and assume that I'd be the only one who's the wiser. But the above distances show differences of 30-45 miles! That's a day's travel, or more!

    Perhaps Badwall should go 15-20 miles east, and Courwood should go a little upriver?

    BTW, in the old ('83) WOG Gazeteer, the shield for the County of Ulek is the same color of purple as in the Duchy of Ulek's shield, and the same purple as in the former Principality of Ulek's shield quartering. In the LG Gazeteer, the same is true for the Duchy & County (although the Principlality's shield was changed; I guess the old one is now the shield for the Province of Corond?).

    Someone help with with the heraldry terms. Embarassed Razz Wink
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:45 am  
    In defense of cartography

    If we compare the maps prepared for Greyhawk to the historial time period which they are supposed to mimic (it's a psuedo-medival setting), then we will see that these map are far and away more accurate than anything that existed IRL. These are amazing maps that have no true comparison. To go even further, we could arguably say that each and every map produced of Greyhawk is no more inaccurate than others. And, beyond that, it would not be uncommon for a European to travel somewhere, and only know where it was located within a day or so of travel.

    Insofar as the town placements and whatnot, I would recommend that you check sources other than those which are "from [your] campaign maps, which are [merely] based on the old Darlene maps" (editorial remarks mine) and check other canon sources ... not just Darlene, at that.

    Furthermore, while there are coats of arms displayed in older books as being from the principalty, there is nothing that says that heraldry has changed. By British heraldic standard, the quartering (party per cross) tells us that the red double-bitted axe (which is shown in two quarters of the field and is threfore more sigificant than the remaining quarters), belongs to someone who is a member of the family that bears the red axe as their emblem. One would naturally make the assumption that the axe is the symbol of the Royal Family of the Principality, and that the quartered shield is, perhaps, likely to be that of Corond himself, and thus, is approprite for the Province of Corond. Essentially, I am saying that the older editions showed "a" shield of the Principality (to wit, the Heraldry of the Prince himself), rather than "the" shield of the Principality.

    When reading your post, your contention that the shield colours match was obvioķs, though it wasn't plain at all that you were saying that Anna's colours didn't match. After a good long while of comparing the heraldic devices in the books, it finally became evident that Anna's map had a *very* minor flaw in the colours. But, nevertheless, you were right.

    And so, that's my two coppers worth.
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:36 am  

    Icarus wrote:
    Insofar as the town placements and whatnot, I would recommend that you check sources other than those which are "from [your] campaign maps, which are [merely] based on the old Darlene maps" (editorial remarks mine) and check other canon sources ... not just Darlene, at that...


    -I did check them against my Darlene maps, and since the Darlene maps are the first (despite their flaws), I'd think they'd get priority in terms of canon. This forum is called "Canonfire".

    As I posted above, if it had been a 5-10% difference in distance, I would have just sucked it up and drove on, but a difference of (in one case) over 100% is a bit much for a map designed for DM use, rather than just artwork, don't you think? My post about distances can be summed up in this:

    jamesdglick wrote:
    ...Perhaps Badwall should go 15-20 miles east, and Courwood should go a little upriver?


    ...and I hope she does; I'd like to think of it as a contribution to her maps.

    Icarus wrote:
    Furthermore, while there are coats of arms displayed in older books as being from the principalty, there is nothing that says that heraldry has changed...


    -I agree, as in the case of the Principality of Ulek; in game terms, the Prince must have chosen to change the Principality's arms sometime between 576 and 591. No problem.

    Icarus wrote:
    After a good long while of comparing the heraldic devices in the books, it finally became evident that Anna's map had a *very* minor flaw in the colours. But, nevertheless, you were right...


    -All I'm saying is "make it the right color".
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:07 pm  

    jamesdglick wrote:
    This forum is called "Canonfire".


    Not because we all stick rigorously to canon. Quite the opposite. Canon is something we start with, in some cases, and then ignite, dismiss from its job, and finally shoot out of a cannon.

    If we want. Or we can stick rigorously to it. Imagine all the possible meanings of "fire."

    Anna does try to make her maps as close to canon as possible, although she also adds fan-created and Living Greyhawk locations.

    If she calculated the distances differently than you, she may have started from a different source. I wouldn't necessarily assume the Darlene maps have priority over all others, or that the earlier sources necessarily trump the later ones. In cases where two maps differ wildly, some amount of educated guesswork or personal preference may be in order. Or one or both of you might have erred.

    Iquander used to post to this forum, but he's too busy with Golarion of late.
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:23 pm  

    Besides which being 15-20 miles off on the location of a city is only half of a hex and, as has been said, the Darlene city markings are not exactly spot on. So, people would be right to take a little artistic license with regards to locating the cities on their own maps, such that the locations actually make sense. Usually this means relocating a city along a coast or a river rather than 15-20 miles inland from such.

    James is just pointing out what he sees as inconsistencies, which is what constructive criticism is about, and what was asked for. But...
    jamesdglick wrote:
    Icarus wrote:
    Insofar as the town placements and whatnot, I would recommend that you check sources other than those which are "from [your] campaign maps, which are [merely] based on the old Darlene maps" (editorial remarks mine) and check other canon sources ... not just Darlene, at that...


    -I did check them against my Darlene maps, and since the Darlene maps are the first (despite their flaws), I'd think they'd get priority in terms of canon. This forum is called "Canonfire".


    Just for clarity, this is why the site is called "Canonfire!":

    Quote:
    - What does Canonfire! mean?

    Canonfire! is a term coined by Erik Mona (Iquander). Its a pun on so many levels, but think of it as taking pre-existing canon (all the books and adventures ever created for Greyhawk) and setting it on creative fire. Let a thousand Greyhawks bloom. This site was built by GH DMs, for GH DMs and we hope to be a great resource for them.

    Ready, aim, fire!


    It's in that ol' FAQ. Wink
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Sun May 08, 2011 12:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:45 pm  

    Cebrion wrote:
    Besides which being 15-20 miles off on the location of a city is only half of a hex and, as has been said, the Darlene city markings are not exactly spot on. So, people would be right to take a little artistic license with regards to locating the cities on their own maps, such that the locations actually make sense. Usually this means relocating a city along a coast or a river rather than 15-20 miles inland from such.


    -Which I said (e.g. the neccessity for Port Elredd), but the three examples I used were 30-45 miles off (far more than an entire hex).

    Again, I may have been a little long-winded, but most of my post came down to:

    jamesdglick wrote:
    ...Perhaps Badwall should go 15-20 miles east, and Courwood should go a little upriver?


    (and purple for the County Ulek heraldry...)

    rasgon wrote:
    ...Anna does try to make her maps as close to canon as possible, although she also adds fan-created and Living Greyhawk locations...


    -For example, Anna discussed incorporating stuff from the "Gord" books, if there is no better info' (see below). Anyway, she was happy to change her map, if given reason to make a correction; I figured "why not in this case"?

    rasgon wrote:
    ...If she calculated the distances differently than you, she may have started from a different source...I wouldn't necessarily assume the Darlene maps have priority over all others, or that the earlier sources necessarily trump the later ones...


    -Then I'd like to know what the source was (as some of you know, I don't have all of the latest toys Sad ).

    BTW, p.68 of "Artifact of Evil" mentions a "track" (probably a "trail" using Anna's terms) that goes from Badwall, and heads west to the Suss Forest.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:58 pm  

    The "latest toys" would be the Paizo maps featured in Dungeon magaizne issues #118-121.

    http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/greyhawkmap

    Those are the most complete overview maps of the Flanaess to date. For a little bit more detail of certain areas there are the 2e supplements Iuz the Evil, The Marklands, Ivid the Undying(free download, do a web search), and The Scarlet Brotherhood. If you don't have any of these then I'd recommend picking them up if you can find them.

    Cool
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    Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:37 pm  
    Anna's Main Source

    As Cebrion has pointed out, the most thorough map to date is the Paizo poster maps. If one does a web search or simply goes through the Downloads section of Canonfire, one will find many dfferent maps of GH that vary wildly. And the locations of the setlements vary wildly. Of the ones you mention in particular, Courwood and Elredd stay on a nearly constant lattitude with each other, ergo, it would not be Courwood that should be moved further away, it would be Badwall that is shown in varying places and (by your Darlene calculations) might have been moved to a more southern longitue.

    However, Anna's main source for that region was, indeed, the Paizo maps. When trying to reconstruct your unusual measurements, she and I spent the majority of yesterday doing cartographic research and working on our computers (about three feet away from each oher, IRL). We discussed which were likely to be the maps that she most likely used for that region. (Remember, she's been working on some of these for years, and details aren't exactly foremost in memory.) It is a certainty, because the locations of your particular examples are nearly identical to those maps, in this case. So ... there aren't any inaccuracies in that regard, simply a newer/better source.

    However, I do believe that she made uploads to her site(www.ghmaps.net) of the new versions of her maps (area numbers 71 and 72) which show the County's and Duchy's heraldry. We spent a fair amount of time comparing shades of purple to "authentic" heraldry colours and to different editions and printngs of GH material. She settled on the lighter shade (which oddly, is strikingly similar to Cebrion's "moderator voice" <grins>) rather than the easily confused darker shade shown in the LGG (which caused the error in the first place).

    ... so, Downloads are to be had! It's just a minor change in the colour of one shield, but, it's up and looks a bit nicer for the correction.
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    Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:06 am  

    Don't lose too much sleep over it. Medeival maps were always inaccurate often adding landmarks in lieu of accurate distances - it was why most people stuck to the roads. Just decide which one is accurate and stick to it. The players can still pick up inaccurate maps at the local market.
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    Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:02 am  

    Agree with the sentiment to not sweat it too much. Having spent time layering maps from the different WoG eras onto a curved surface in Google Earth, it became clear how much variation there is between maps, and how open the data is to artists' interpretation. Close is OK.

    Second point is that if someone's unhappy with a map, it's easy to fix it. In the case of Anna's maps, it's made easier by the fact that she has created them in Pdf's with layers that can be turned off or on.

    So, if someone doesn't like the Living Greyhawk material or the heraldry or the roads, it's possible to deactivate their layers in the Pdf and save it as an image file. From there it can be manipulated in an image editor if the unhappiness persists.

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    Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:14 pm  
    Re: Anna's Main Source

    nematode wrote:
    ...Second point is that if someone's unhappy with a map, it's easy to fix it. In the case of Anna's maps, it's made easier by the fact that she has created them in Pdf's with layers that can be turned off or on...


    -Easier for some than others.

    PaulN6 wrote:
    Don't lose too much sleep over it. Medeival maps were always inaccurate often adding landmarks in lieu of accurate distances - it was why most people stuck to the roads. Just decide which one is accurate and stick to it. The players can still pick up inaccurate maps at the local market.


    -That's fine if you're just looking for artwork, or if you're looking for a map that the PC's use (heh heh heh); they'd cost a pretty copper, and presumably the cartographer used magical means...

    Icarus wrote:
    ... We spent a fair amount of time comparing shades of purple to "authentic" heraldry colours and to different editions and printngs of GH material. She settled on the lighter shade (which oddly, is strikingly similar to Cebrion's "moderator voice" <grins>) rather than the easily confused darker shade shown in the LGG (which caused the error in the first place).

    ... so, Downloads are to be had! It's just a minor change in the colour of one shield, but, it's up and looks a bit nicer for the correction.


    -Que Sera Sera!
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