Well back from Madison and the Gamehole Con.... Anna sends salutations to her supportive GH faithful.
She is still delving with those Kobold of Kobold Press fame but did co-conspire a seminar with Alyssa Faden on cartography where Greyhawk got some love.
We did manage to have lunch on several occasions and discuss Greyhawk and things in the works...
For her, she is detailing out the Sheildlands for her new campaign personal play and for me the hardy band of adventurers I have will try to clean up the mess the giants have made of Geoff.
So we hope to follow up with details and of course looking for the same from all those that continue to GH Endure.....
The river that flows from the Isle of Rhun to Hocholve is labeled at its headwaters in the Lake of Rhun as the Avon Fyn, but by the time it reaches the Midwood Forest it is called the Olvewater. Or, perhaps it is the lake itself that is the Avon Fyn, or the river flowing into the lake, while the outflow is the Olvewater. The Olvewater enters the Javan north of New Midwood.
The river that starts in the center of the Cantrev of Rychdir Rhos and enters the Javan at New Midwood is not labeled.
Some sources say that it is the Olvewater that flows through New Midwood, which would mean the unlabeled southern river should be the Olvewater while the doubly labeled northern river should be the Avon Fyn, only.
But, I think "Avon" would more generally be translated as "River" rather than lake.
Canon source The Liberation of Geoff says Midwood "sits on one of the broader parts of the Olvewater between the Dim Forest and the Oytwood" and the map included shows the Olvewater originating in the lake.
However, the map is problematic in that it shows the Olvewater bending south to flow through Midwood but it appears that the Olvewater becomes the Javan, without showing the Javan's source in the Vale of the Mage
Thanks! _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Last edited by Kirt on Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
There are two towns across the Javan from one another; one on the Keoish side (Javan Ferry) and one on the Sterish side (Sterich Road). They are separated by the Ford of Marich, which I believe comes from Gary Holian's LGJ1 article on Keoland.
I am wondering about the naming of the Sterish town "Sterich Road", though. It appears to be taken from the Dungeon 117 map supplement (https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/117/DA117_OnlineSupplement.pdf, in which indeed, it looks like these are the names given for the two towns (although on that map the symbols appear to indicate that they are villages, not towns).
However, closer inspection reveals that the Dungeon map names a number of roads: King's Highway (from Flen east), Oyt Road (from Istivin north), and Davish Main Trail (from Istivin south). Given that, I wonder if "Sterich Road" is rather the name of the road from Istivin east, and the unfortunate placement of it on the map near to an (unnamed) village on the Javan has resulted in people coming to believe it refers to the name of the village?
Similarly, perhaps the east-bank village is also actually unnamed, and "Javan Ferry" refers to the river crossing itself rather than the settlement?"
In this same thread (page 24; April 17, 2017) Mystic-Scholar says that Gary Holian wrote about both of these cities [sic] but does not say where. I don't think they are mentioned in LGJ1. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Last edited by Kirt on Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
There are two towns across the Javan from one another; one on the Keoish side (Javan Ferry) and one on the Sterish side (Sterich Road). They are separated by the Ford of Marich, which I believe comes from Gary Holian's LGJ1 article on Keoland.
I am wondering about the naming of the Sterish town "Sterich Road", though. It appears to be taken from the Dungeon 117 map supplement (https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/117/DA117_OnlineSupplement.pdf, in which indeed, it looks like these are the names given for the two towns (although on that map the symbols appear to indicate that they are villages, not towns).
However, closer inspection reveals that the Dungeon map names a number of roads: King's Highway (from Flen east), Oyt Road (from Istivin north), and Davish Main Trail (from Istivin south). Given that, I wonder if "Sterich Road" is rather the name of the road from Istivin east, and the unfortunate placement of it on the map near to an (unnamed) village on the Javan has resulted in people coming to believe it refers to the name of the village?
Similarly, perhaps the east-bank village is also actually unnamed, and "Javan Ferry" refers to the river crossing itself rather than the settlement?"
In this same thread (page 24; April 17, 2017) Mystic-Scholar says that Gary Holian write about both of these cities [sic] but does not say where. I don't think they are mentioned in LGJ1.
Looking at the DUNGEON #117 supplement map, I would guess that Javan Ferry is a single village that straddles the river. Every other settlement appears to be named. I agree that “Sterich Road” refers to the road, not the settlement.
Looking at the DUNGEON #117 supplement map, I would guess that Javan Ferry is a single village that straddles the river. Every other settlement appears to be named. I agree that “Sterich Road” refers to the road, not the settlement.
I hadn't considered that alternative. It does indeed appear that every other non-ruined population center / settlement on the map is named (although only two of the seven keeps are), so having Javan Ferry (west and east?) seems like a good solution. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
On the Avon Fyn/Avon Ffyn - If we're adhering to Welsh, as most of the Geoff nomenclature tends to, then Afon/Avon should be river, yes. I find the translation of the name interesting: Afon Ffyn is River of Staves/River of Sticks - maybe deriving from being a forest river for part of its length?
Any ideas for the original source material and spelling? _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Any ideas for the original source material and spelling?
I dont have a record of either spelling. Sounds like LG campaign material. The only Keller's Keep that comes to mind was a supplement for the Heroquest boardgame.
I figured, but thanks for checking. _________________ My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
Looks like Anna took the same interpretation I did and assumed that Galesford was later renamed Curtulenn.
It looks like Sargent was aware of Galesford but changed the name to Curtulenn in WGR4, Galesford actually has some implications about the Franz River so I'd stick with Gygax's version.
Looks like Anna took the same interpretation I did and assumed that Galesford was later renamed Curtulenn.
It looks like Sargent was aware of Galesford but changed the name to Curtulenn in WGR4, Galesford actually has some implications about the Franz River so I'd stick with Gygax's version.
There is no “Gygax’s version”. Galesford is literally just a single name-check in Saga of Old City. There’s no development. (Frankly, Sargent didn’t develop Curtulenn much either.) I’m simply suggesting that sometime between 577 and 585 CY, the name was changed from Galesford to Curtulenn (for reasons the DM can fabricate), neatly reconciling the two references.
Looks like Anna took the same interpretation I did and assumed that Galesford was later renamed Curtulenn.
It looks like Sargent was aware of Galesford but changed the name to Curtulenn in WGR4, Galesford actually has some implications about the Franz River so I'd stick with Gygax's version.
There is no “Gygax’s version”. Galesford is literally just a single name-check in Saga of Old City. There’s no development. (Frankly, Sargent didn’t develop Curtulenn much either.) I’m simply suggesting that sometime between 577 and 585 CY, the name was changed from Galesford to Curtulenn (for reasons the DM can fabricate), neatly reconciling the two references.
There are no mentions of Galesford in WGR4 or LGG so it isnt a name change within the lore. Curtelenn is placed where Gygax has said Galesford would be so its simply a Sargentism.
It could be Galesford in Oeridian and Curtulenn in Flan. The Galesford implies that you have a ford of the Franz River between Trigot (Trigol) and that would effect navigation as well as the relation between the two towns.
Just noted on page 213 of Saga of Old City that Owlsthorpe appears to be in the wrong location. Should be north of the rough trail through the Flinty Hills, not south of the trail.
Anna, what would the best option for printing your 30-mile hex map to maximize resolution but keeping the size manageable? (By manageable I guess I mean as large as an outfit like Kinko's or some such could print / laminate it)
All times are GMT - 8 Hours [ Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
Page 7 of 7
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises
