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    Canonfire :: View topic - Quasqueton
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    Quasqueton
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Feb 01, 2005
    Posts: 166
    From: Columbus, Ohio

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    Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:14 am  
    Quasqueton

    I have looked thru the forums. I have discovered that B2-Keep on the Borderlands is supposedly in the Western edge of the Tors in the Yeomanry. I was looking thru B1-In Search of the Unknown. I discovered that the two seem to be linked, but B1 is set somewhere in Ratik or Tenh or the Pale (page 6). It follows that B2 is there as well.

    Where is the reference at which shows B2 in the Yeomanry? Are B1 and B2 considered canon? Wasn't B1 suppose to be part of "The Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" remake? It does mention Quasqueton on the map but that seems to be about it. Has anyone written up anything with Quasqueton or its former owners?

    I know I tend to beat dead horses, but B1 seems to be an overlooked gem of Greyhawk.

    Thanks for any thoughts or imput.
    Skech
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
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    From: Orland Hills, Illinois

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    Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:33 pm  

    IIRC, the reasons for confusion.

    The text in the original B1 mentions the locations indicated, but does not give a specific hex number.

    B2 is published later, mentions its location as being the Yeomanry and it mentions that B1 is nearby. Hmm..

    I think they are mentioned in the WOG folio set, but no specific Darlene hex location is given for them.

    By the time of the the WOG boxed set (1983), the B1-B2 references were removed or overlooked. I have my PDF download of the boxed set right with me. Neither B1 nor B2 is in the list of modules. (Glossography p.30).
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
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    From: Renton WA

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    Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:39 pm  

    B2 makes no mention what so ever of it being in the Yomanry, or even in greyhawk.

    the abysmally aweful "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" module sets it in the yoemanry, and ignores B1 all together, placing Quazqueton (sp) where the cave of the unknown is in the original module, and intamating that it collapsed some time ago so that all that is left is the tunnel to the evil temple in the caves of chaos.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:47 pm  

    B 1-9 were officially set in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos, in the basic D&D Known World, in the In Search of the Unknown supermodule compilation.
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 12, 2001
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    From: Hanover Park

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    Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:50 pm  
    Official placements besides...

    Hi again,

    Bear in mind that _In Search of the Unknown_ is a dungeon in a vaccuum -- there are no details on the setting at all besides the early reference to Greyhawk excised from later printings. When I ran it, years ago, I placed it in the Cairn Hills. It can practically go anywhere.

    Scott "-enkainen" Casper

    Yak-Men move dungeons when no one is looking...
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2002
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    From: Renton WA

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    Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:59 pm  

    I don't know, I would think it would be difficult to logically place it any place that doesn't have a barbarian population near by, unless you change the backgroud so that it was not recently abandonded by R and Z going off to fight the barbarian hordes
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 12, 2001
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    From: Hanover Park

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    Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:12 am  
    I'll agree to disagree

    Hi again,

    R and Z did fight barbarians -- there is plenty of evidence of that in their home -- but I recall no evidence that the barbarians were local. Remember that Mordenkainen was local to Greyhawk City once, but adventured as far away as Blackmoor and the Nomad lands. High-level PCs can really travel.

    ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

    Yak-Men find it easier to travel in Battlestars...
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
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    From: Calgary, AB, Canada

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    Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:01 am  

    cwslyclgh wrote:
    I don't know, I would think it would be difficult to logically place it any place that doesn't have a barbarian population near by, unless you change the backgroud so that it was not recently abandonded by R and Z going off to fight the barbarian hordes


    Remember that depending on R and Z's background, the "barbarians" might simply be people from another culture. For example, if they are Suel or Oeridians from the Gran March, then the "barbarians" might be the Baklunish from Ket (or vice versa).
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2004
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    Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:51 am  

    Or they could be savage humanoids. Barbarians don't *have* to be human... Though it is more likely they'd say "have gone to fight the orc hordes" in that case. Still, if you want to put somewhere and don't have convenient human barbarians, there are always non human ones...
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:21 pm  

    Dredging up another thread!

    Skech wrote:
    ...I was looking thru B1-In Search of the Unknown. I discovered that the two seem to be linked, but B1 is set somewhere in Ratik or Tenh or the Pale (page 6)...


    -IMC (CY 578), I place it in Kalmar Pass, between Ratikhill and the Bone March.

    I assume that the party of "Beserkers" (old D&D) are mostly adventuring Cold Barbarians, and not neccessarily hostile (obviously, one party had a "diplomatic mis-step"). Humanoids are typical of the Bone March.

    As for "historical" background, I assume that R & Z operated sometime after the conquest of the Bone March, but before the Great Kingdom conquered Ratik, and were "renegades", not beholden to the Great Kingdom (when it was still in it's "good" pahase).

    As for B2 Keep on the Borderlands (I have a player there right now, also CY 578): I had to ignore the Yeomanry thing, since I had long since placed it where the Jewel meets the Handmaiden rivers, on a small trail between Courwood & Badwall. I turned the map clockwise, to make west = north, etc. From what others have said, it's no big loss, since most GHers seem to consider the new take on the Keep being in the Yeomanry to be heresy. BTW, I remember reading somewhere that Gygax or Kuntz placed the Keep somewhere north of the Pomarj as well (I forget where, exactly), so, I figure I'm in good company.



    "Great minds run in the same direction", or "Idiots think alike"?! Razz
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 15, 2003
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    From: Orktown, Manitoba, Canada

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    Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:25 pm  

    I am in the midst of using B1 and B2 in my new 2nd Ed campaign. I am operating under the assumption that all this takes place in The Yeomanry. Quasqueton is indeed connected to the Caves via a tunnel, which run through a bunch of caverns, and is being used as a beachhead for the cult, bandits and humanoids to prepare to attaack the Kepp. When I get done, I'd be happy to post my modifications.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:16 pm  

    Threadomancy!

    This Dragonsfoot PDF got me to thinking about Quasqueton's place in Greyhawk.

    It seems to me the most logical places are:

    1. Near Thunder Pass through the Griffs in Tenh. The barbarians are Stonefisters.
    2. In the Flinty Hills, near the Gamboge Forest in the Pale. The barbarians are humanoids from the Bone March (to the south, not the north, but Zelligar and Rogahn could have still disappeared to the north later on, adventuring among a different group of barbarians).
    3. In the Bluff Hills in Tenh. The barbarians are Rovers.
    4. In northern Ratik, in the foothills of the Griffs in the Timberway Forest (Kalmar Pass?). Zelligar and Rogahn might have distinguished themselves against the invasion of the Frost and Snow Barbarians in 356 CY.
    5. In southern Ratik, in the eastern spur of the Rakers. The barbarians are from the Bone March (again, Zelligar and Rogahn could still have disappeared to the north later on). Zelligar and Rogahn might have helped defend against the humanoid invasion of Ratik during the fall of the Bone March in circa 563 CY.
    6. In southern Ratik, but Zelligar and Rogahn were veterans of the Battle of Shamblefield in 109 CY, crucial to the victory against the Frost Barbarians though they were not part of Caldni Vir's army. Later they disappeared, venturing into the lands of the Frost Barbarians by themselves.

    The module implies the two have only been gone for a few decades, but it also says things are unclear and notes that there's probably some preservative magic at work anyway, so it seems reasonable for me to stretch things much longer and make Zelligar and Rogahn more "legendary." But in most of those positions it could easily have been a much more recent barbarian invasion they were involved with, as well.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:50 am  

    Return to the Keep on the Borderlands has a few interesting personalities, which I like to adapt to the original B1 - Keep on the Borderlands, but I otherwise don't use that newer version. The original is pure awesomeness. Cool

    Despite Rasgon's good suggestions, I believe the best placement of the Keep is in hex T4/70 on the north bank of the Deepstil River. This location is ideal for several reason's:

    1) The mesa on which the keep is build and the gently rolling forested hills surrounding it fit nicely in the northern Vesve just east of the forested portion of the Sepia Uplands.
    2) The Deepstil River is of perfect size at that point.
    3) Wolf Nomads fill the role of 'Barbarians' to the north.
    4) This area is truly "on the borderlands". In my campaign, the Wood Elves only claim the forest south of the Deep Stil River. The woodland north of it is inhabited by freemen and hunted by the nomads to the north.
    5) The road runs west toward Perrenland and the High Vale and north toward Eru Tovar in the lands of the Wolf Nomads.
    6) The eclectic grouping of humanoids inhabiting the Caves of Chaos is explained readily by the evil clerics who serve Iuz. They have infiltrated in small numbers this far west seeking to gain control over the region. Without the presence of Iuz's priests, the various humanoid tribes would be at each other's throats.
    7) Nearness to the High Vale makes it easy to explain the presence of, and integrate, human and demi-human characters into a beginning party suitable for this low-level adventure.

    Hope this helps. Happy

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:28 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:
    Return to the Keep on the Borderlands has a few interesting personalities, which I like to adapt to the original B1 - Keep on the Borderlands, but I otherwise don't use that newer version. The original is pure awesomeness.


    B1 is In Search of the Unknown, which is the one with Quasqueton in it.

    B2 is Keep on the Borderlands.

    Since Quasqueton was built "far from the nearest settlement, away from traveled routes" it's probably not very near any keeps, unless the keep was built after Rogahn and Zelligar abandoned it. Sir Xaris's suggestion seems a very good one for B2, however.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:27 pm  

    Thanks for the correction, Rasgon. You're right, of course. Smile

    SirXaris

    Edit: In clicking through the various pages in your link above, Rasgon, I came across this quote from EGG himself relating to the possible location of The Keep on the Borderlands in the World of Greyhawk.

    March 2001
    Q: "Was the Keep on the Borderlands originally in the World of Greyhawk and if so where did you place it in your campaign?
    A: "KotB was not set on Oerth, it was just a free-form locale that any DM could fit into his campaign world. Likely it would be okay on the border of the Pomarj, though." (email to Gene Weigel, quoted in Dragonsfoot forum post in 2003)
    Paladin

    Joined: Sep 07, 2011
    Posts: 833
    From: Houston Texas

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    Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:18 pm  

    SirXaris wrote:

    Edit: In clicking through the various pages in your link above, Rasgon, I came across this quote from EGG himself relating to the possible location of The Keep on the Borderlands in the World of Greyhawk.

    March 2001
    Q: "Was the Keep on the Borderlands originally in the World of Greyhawk and if so where did you place it in your campaign?
    A: "KotB was not set on Oerth, it was just a free-form locale that any DM could fit into his campaign world. Likely it would be okay on the border of the Pomarj, though." (email to Gene Weigel, quoted in Dragonsfoot forum post in 2003)

    I too saw that similar quote in an interview EGG did in an interview in Italy. I think, since the module was part of the starter set, this really left the latitude to the "newly aspiring DM" since it was really a self contained story.
    in my "spelunking" of various threads, I did find this one interesting.
    https://5591919356053517624-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/osrgrimoire/B1sourcebookwithmaps.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7coIyzV7cvsH8l8T2HJCIpNXQPpeVRl22oSs-YoUdilPq8HGXL2JrHmFo_JT1wEYTPNshKfBMw_ZIJmLKih6C7rREDiQhhZiwY4pUozSmBLeaFztjfyqZv1rYS-6ACXWUdl41fTvWWd_8COxUq0KTP5kkitBJqIQhrcOuw-6MamxrtYpsO8a9FVS3m9klTXNYekZMFNCjESmfHdp-FMrI4NHAJmfWQ%3D%3D&attredirects=1
    Like most, I started B1 in the northeast however. And as covered in a different thread, this was my favorite module. Happy
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:21 pm  

    I've never read the module and I guess now I'll have to. But I have read the novel and so I find all these locations a bit "strange." Confused

    In the novel, it alludes to the fact that the Keep guards the trade routes "to the east." A Pomarj location wouldn't seem to fit that description. but then, like I said, I haven't read the actual module. Embarassed

    But this wouldn't be the first time that "the novel" did something completely different from the module. Wink
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    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:59 pm  

    As the module's written, B2 is completely generic and can be placed anywhere that qualifies as a "borderland" between the realm of humanity and the chaos beyond. The novel could be completely consistent with it even if Gary Gygax had another location in mind when he was cornered and asked to come up with a location thirty years later.

    That said, I think it could be put on the border of the Pomarj and the Wild Coast, guarding the trade routes that lead north and, ultimately, east along the coast toward Greyhawk and Hardby.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:07 pm  

    rasgon wrote:
    That said, I think it could be put on the border of the Pomarj and the Wild Coast, guarding the trade routes that lead north and, ultimately, east along the coast toward Greyhawk and Hardby.


    That's really a good location, come to think of it, especially if it was placed in the southwest Wild Coast near the Suss forest. The river would have to be an tributary of the Jewel or another umapped river heading from the Suss to the Wooly Bay.

    Being a generic adventure without an official placement (according to the original B2), it is wonderful that a DM can justify its placement, geographically, just about anywhere on the Darlene map that s/he finds convenient to the current campaign.

    SirXaris
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