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    Canonfire :: View topic - Question about LG adventures
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    Question about LG adventures
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: May 14, 2003
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    From: the Free City of Dyvers (Kansas City, MO)

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    Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:17 pm  
    Question about LG adventures

    I'm interested in some of the RPGA LG adventures, and am going throught the tedious process of becoming a RPGA GM just so I can get them and run them for my group. Has anyone tried any of these? Are they any good? Am I wasting my time? Some feedback would be greatly appreciated...
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:11 am  

    As with anything else, your mileage will vary. Given the size of Living Greyhawk, and number of people involved in writing adventures - you're bound to find some adventures that are good and others that aren't.

    Vernon L. Vincent
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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:59 am  

    Gargoyle,

    I never joined the RPGA, and I have over 300 of their modules. EDITED BY DETHAND 00:12 27-09-06

    As I have given a number of these a fair reading, let me warn you that you will find no new canon Greyhawk material. Some do have good little nuggets for fleshing out regions. Also, the general quality of the adventures tend to be below average... most do not have maps. A typical pdf will have 20 b/w pages without artwork. The first 3-4 pages are about RPGA rules, the next 8-10 are the adventure, and the last pages are about scoring and experience, treasure, numerous npc stats for various levels of play, and WoTC's iconic NPCs.

    In general, they are good for a quick session on short notice. Just read and play.

    Cheers
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:53 pm  

    Thanks for the info, I'm much obliged.
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    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:08 pm  

    Please don't use file-sharing to illegally access LG adventures.
    The legal disclaimer is quite clear, they are only for distribution through authorized channels for use in sanctioned RPGA games. Any other use is a violation of the IP rights of the RPGA and the authors.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:22 pm  

    Samwise,

    I had no idea that using the P2P to share retired files was illegal. Sorry about that. I dropped them ALL from my hard-drive as soon as I read your warning. Thanks for the kindly headsup.

    Embarassed
    CF Admin

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:14 pm  

    Filesharing copywritten materials is illegal. Feinging ignorance is perhaps a minor point but for everyones benefit I will point out the Forum Rules have been updated to include what everyone should basically know. You can read them here

    Please read them.

    Thank you,
    Dethand
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    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:13 pm  

    How imoral would it be to share only the 'good little nuggets for fleshing out regions' ?

    I would never have time to play all retired modules in any event, I'm just interested in brief details of npcs (name, race, level (which vary any way), alignment), settlements (stat blocks, locations within etc), geographical features (small ones at the local level), dungeons (location, plus a paragraph of description), and a bit of background to keep track of each nation's history as the plots develop.

    It just seems a shame that the 'good little nuggets' aren't being collated Sad
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:06 am  

    I do not think I will be violating the Rules for Safe and Happy Posting (Do not discuss filesharing programs or illegal downloads on the forums. Violators will be warned and the post edited. Further violations will result in possible loss of posting privledges and/or banning the user from the forum.)
    Any IP lawyers out there? I am not one, but with a quick google, I found a description of the fair use doctrine:
    In determining whether a challenged activity qualifies as a fair use, courts employ a multi-factor balancing test, including a consideration of:
    1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether it is commercial or noncommercial;
    2. the nature of the work (e.g., factual works are entitled to less protection than purely creative works);
    3. the amount and substantiality of the portion of the work used;
    4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for the work.
    See 17 U.S.C. 107.

    I checked and it looks almost the same as the USC, but have not research a comparative application or any other relevant laws.
    Short of file sharing, under this doctrine it might be possible to share the 'good little nuggets'. Here at CF! factor one is given. Factor two is not. Factor three appears to be the premise. I do not know about factor four, but if combined with credit to and promotion of LG, as well as whatever kind of commercial nature there is to LG, may weight in favor of sharing nuggets.
    I do not know, but someone else might want to explore this.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:20 am  

    How about just not trying to play legal games?
    First, in order to "reasonably" discuss the background bits, you must have had legitimate access to the adventure to begin with, or you must be quoting a description of the adventure from one of the LG websites. Otherwise all you are doing is admitting that you as an individual have acquired the retired adventures illegally.
    Second, when discussing that material, don't forget that much is still going to be protected IP. That includes all the new NPCs, location names, and the like. Picking up on some LG created ruler or background and expanding on it is not going to be fair use. So that's going to eliminate most of the "useful nuggets" that people want to begin with.
    Third, whether or not you make any money is irrelevant. Merely distributing it is a violation. At least according to a federal attorney who deals with such issues when the matter came up on another list regarding copying videotapes. So that is not a given.

    So no, don't make some grand list of NPCs and locations featured in retired LG adventures and post it to Canonfire.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:24 pm  

    You know my beef with LG (and the RPGA in general)? I would gladly pay for those materials if they'd only let me. In order to join the RPGA, I must attend an event. I can't just send them a check. I don't have the time or inclination to travel to some out-of-state con (I'm in RI) to play in (or run) a 3.5 game. I just want access to the LG resources for my own home game. Again, I'd certainly pay for this access, but the RPGA doesn't seem to want my money. Confused
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:42 pm  
    Allowed

    Though I am not an attorney, I have been in enough litigations to know that the intents and designs of the offended party may have as much to do with the consequences as the slant of the law. Wolfsire is an attorney, and he may disagree.

    That said, upon embarking upon the Gran March project, I requested permission to utilize LG Gran March material. They and the WOTC legal counsel replied in no uncertain terms that the material was not for public use. We were not to use it even for fan fiction.

    So... it is clear that the owner of the I.P. consider's it private. The mods are not generally available to the public, and are clearly restricted. I am not an admin here, and I am not chastising... but I think even the nuggets are beyond the pale. It is clearly someone else's IP, and doesnt belong here.

    As to the utility of the "nuggets," you may find that it is not there. For good or ill, LG has not attempted to enforce any sort of internal consistency or cohesive canon across the LG and all it's triads. Imagine the sheer administrative tasks and document managment infrastructure such a task would require. Though the adventures may be interesting and well written (I don't know, I haven't seen them) their benefit is probably limited to a alter-oerth placement. It probably is all in conflict... creating a canon as conflicted as early christian writings.

    So... to sum: IMO it is illegal and there is little to gain from doing it.
    CF Admin

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:01 pm  

    I'll be very clear on this. Canonfire! is not a legal court and neither are our forums. If you can't follow the clear rules on Safe and Happy Posting on the Forums then let me direct you to this one:

    "Canonfire! staff reserves the right to remove any posts without notice. Canonfire! also reserves the right to ban anyone who willfully violates these rules."

    Thats right. Posting someones work on Canonfire! without the original authors permission is a violation of our rules and falls under 'do not discuss illegal downloads' part of our rules. I think you all know how to conduct yourselves within the rules properly without the CF! staff having to spell out every exact legal detail so that you can discuss Greyhawk material on these forums and not get the site or yourself in trouble.
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    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:58 pm  

    Wow, I never thought this would start a storm of controversy over copyrights and legal issues. I just wanted to know if the LG modules were worth the trouble of LEGALLY procuring (which I am attempting to do). Please, everyone, we should all recognize proper copyright and legal status of ANY document. Being a writer myself, I fully support ALL copyright laws. I'd hate to see my work traded about illegally.
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    Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:25 pm  

    As I said, I do not know whether it would be legal to share nuggets. What is a nugget? As for the CF! policy and for Dethands statement, I do NOT think they are clear and I DO think it is worth spelling out more carefully.

    I very much do think CF!s policy should be honored, in the spirit as well as the letter, which is what I assume Sam was getting at with respect to “legal games.” I would not suggest anyone ignore whatever warnings LG supply, particularly as that could impact CF! But I do not know what those warnings are. I think the palpable “storm of controversy” is the produce of fear and ignorance that should be dispelled by providing more information.

    Read literally and expansively, by merely stating the word “Berghof” I have violated the policy as described by Dethand, and such occurs all the time. The name is someone else’s original idea for which I do not have the author’s permission to post in this forum. I have used Sam’s history of the Toli without his express permission in my own creative works without chastisement from him or CF! Forums exists just for the purpose of comment on articles, which is quintessential fair use.

    I suggest that perhaps “trade secret” is more appropriate, but I do not know. It is because I do not know that I think these things should be discussed. That is why I quoted the CF! policy rather than merely accept the link posted.

    If I had a character in LG and I wrote a narrative history of him that referenced the details of the LG adventures he undertook, would that be legitimate under the law and/or policy of CF!? I do not know about the law, but I suspect it would be fair use if posted here. How about if I critiqued an adventure? It might get you kicked out of LG or it might get CF! in hot water with LG. We would all like to avoid that. It would not violate the letter of the CF! policy I quoted, but may very well violate what Dethand wants.

    So, Dethand, I am not trying to be a trouble maker, just the opposite. I do think spelling out some more detail is appropriate and I think it is good to clarify limits. That is why there are such things as laws and policies.

    If LG is a special case because of their hostility anything being public compared to WotC, Piazo or CF! authors, that is a legitimate concern that should be spelled out.

    I am pretty sure they are fine with LGG info. I do not know much beyond that, and with due respect to Sam, I would not want to rely upon his paraphrasing of the LG position. If someone has available for posting whatever disclaimers they have provided those should be looked at. I am sure they would not have a problem with those being posted.
    CF Admin

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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:17 am  

    Wolfsire wrote:
    Read literally and expansively, by merely stating the word “Berghof” I have violated the policy as described by Dethand, and such occurs all the time. The name is someone else’s original idea for which I do not have the author’s permission to post in this forum. I have used Sam’s history of the Toli without his express permission in my own creative works without chastisement from him or CF! Forums exists just for the purpose of comment on articles, which is quintessential fair use.


    Yes read literally you could make that leap of logic. But again read closely you would see that isn't the case at all. Did you illegally obtain Samwises article? Did you mention the use of filesharing programs in quoting Berghof? No.
    You also say quoting and using such things happens all the time and your right. Because, you can mention, quote and use copywritten materials from sources dealing with Greyhawk and D&D here for review, discussion and general use, but you have no rights to them, just as your original article that you might write for Canonfire! is your own but not the material that you used for it.

    Wolfsire wrote:
    So, Dethand, I am not trying to be a trouble maker, just the opposite. I do think spelling out some more detail is appropriate and I think it is good to clarify limits. That is why there are such things as laws and policies.


    There will be no further discussion on this matter when all that needs to be said is dont talk about copywritten materials illegally obtained or using filesharing programs on the Canonfire! forums. If you want to bring up your concerns over our policies please take your comments to the Canonfire Help and Feedback forum.

    That said there is a tangled web around getting Living Greyhawk material and its useage..having said that, discussion on it is NOT illegal.

    So back to the discussion. Cool
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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:34 am  

    Wolfsire wrote:
    As I said, I do not know whether it would be legal to share nuggets. What is a nugget?

    Read literally and expansively, by merely stating the word “Berghof” I have violated the policy as described by Dethand, and such occurs all the time. The name is someone else’s original idea for which I do not have the author’s permission to post in this forum. I have used Sam’s history of the Toli without his express permission in my own creative works without chastisement from him or CF! Forums exists just for the purpose of comment on articles, which is quintessential fair use.

    If LG is a special case because of their hostility anything being public compared to WotC, Piazo or CF! authors, that is a legitimate concern that should be spelled out.


    I'm no expert on copyright either but I will try to explain my own understanding.

    File sharing copyrighted material is most certainly a no-no.

    In the UK I think that direct quotes violate copyright if used without permission but referencing copyrighted material for inspiration is not a breach (as was found in the high profile Dan Brown case recently over his novel the Da Vinci Code). If you use fictional proper names from the copyrighted text in documents, you may be in breach I suppose but I would have thought that WotC owns the rights to the official location names and doesn't seem to have a problem. Thus so-called gazeteer 'nuggets' inspired by LG modules should be fine as long as the original text is re-worded and the details are about existing locations/npcs.

    I suppose we should not include the proper names of towns, villages, npcs and dungeons that were invented by LG writers without permission but if Dungeon can call Greyhawk 'the Free City', and Tenser 'Manzorian' I think we can probably manage on that score. Presumably the LG names would be discoverable by following the trail laid down in the bibliography.

    Finally, I can't see how using proper names as part of a discussion on a forum could ever represent a breach of copyright. If discussion were a breach, anybody putting forward a bad review a novel could not refer to the characters by name without the express permission of the author. That must be nonsense and a disproportionate restriction on the right to free speech. Copyright is intended to prevent others from profiting from the intellectual prperty of others without either obtaining permission or cutting them in on the profits.

    Hence file sharing BAD since it reduces potential sales of the intellectual property. Discussion GOOD since it raises awareness and may encourage others to purchase the intellectual property.

    My own home made gazeteer could never be published in its current form because I would have to reword it from start to finish to avoid direct quotes and obtain permission for use of LG/Canonfire/fan created npcs and locations. What a pain.

    However, I too would be willing to pay for retired LG stuff if it was more readily available. They are their own worst enemy on that score but I suppose there is still plenty of time for someone to set up a website to make the stuff available with permission of the authors. The old mods from the 70's only recently became available - perhaps we shouldn't be so impatient and should just start lobbying gently - volunteer webslaves please apply!
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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:17 am  

    Dethand wrote:
    Yes read literally you could make that leap of logic. ... There will be no further discussion on this matter when all that needs to be said is dont talk about copywritten materials illegally obtained or using filesharing programs on the Canonfire! forums. If you want to bring up your concerns over our policies please take your comments to the Canonfire Help and Feedback forum. ... So back to the discussion. Cool


    It appears that I was confused, and for that I apologize. I though you made that leap of logic. Embarassed As I was responding to the idea of "nuggets", I though you were saying nothing like fair use could be done for LG, which may be the case from LG's perspective. The policy is very clear on discussion of illegal file sharing if not read expansively. But that still leaves open the question of nuggets from LG. If someone has the mods legally, under what paramaters can some of their content be legally shared? If that does not belong in this forum, I'll not discuss it again.

    Fair use exposing nuggets, inherent in good critiques, does seem to be the heart of the initial discussion:

    Quote:
    I'm interested in some of the RPGA LG adventures, and am going throught the tedious process of becoming a RPGA GM just so I can get them and run them for my group. Has anyone tried any of these? Are they any good? Am I wasting my time? Some feedback would be greatly appreciated...


    So, is the only legitimate response to gargoyle's question some are good and some are bad, or its it possible to get some nuggets as in David Smith's review of Dark Clouds Gather, http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=75 ?
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:58 am  

    IP is at the heart of any consideration of the utility of collating material from regional LG scenarios (ie those not owned by the RPGA/WotC).

    Because regionals, metaregionals and a lot of the regional background are owned by the authors, there's no chance that much or any this material will ever see light of day in a canon publication. The tangle of overlapping authorships is too dense for even the most elite IP attack laywer to unravel. So they won't. They'll just ignore it.

    Because of this, I'm not sure there's really much value to collating LG information outside the bounds of the LG campaign itself (which is useful, since it makes handing over regions to new triad members and maintaining plotlines and continuity far easier).

    Now if you want to mine LG mods for your own entertainment and enrichment, then knock yourself out. But if we're talking collating material so it can be mined for future GH development - I'm not convinced it's really worth the effort. Nice, but a lot of work for little reward.
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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:45 am  

    Wotc can initiate legal action to stop a perceived violation of their IP (copyright or trademark) and contesting such legal action would be prohibitively expensive and inconvenient for a fan almost without question. Wotc could also proceed against a website hosting material violative of their IP with the same consequences, almost without question. In all likelihood, any violation would be worth little in provable damages. Rather, Wotc would be more likely looking for injunctive relief - an order from a court directing that the infringing conduct stop. The practicality is then that a cease and desist order from Wotc is as good as a lawsuit from Wotc seeking injunctive relief, at least for 99.99 percent of all fans and fan websites.

    All Canonfire submissions are rebutably IP violations if they utilize Wotc’s IP. While the same work, if used privately, would not be violative of Wotc’s IP, placement on the web, arguably, transforms the use from private to public and thus becomes violative of Wotc’s IP. I qualify these statements because no case has dealt with the rather unique circumstances of an RPG and fan created materials for use with such. (Similar or analogous cases exist but the paper and pencil RPG fact pattern, I believe, is distinguishable, being sufficiently unique unto itself.) However, it is wise, I believe, to err on the side of caution - imagining the least favorable outcome to a fan or fan website as likely.

    In the earlier days of the internet, TSR discouraged all fansites and the posting of fan created materials for use with any variety of D&D. TSR sent cease and desist letters and for the reasons set out above, TSR was not challenged on the point in court. The fan websites simply chose to shutter. If such a policy were still in place today, Canonfire’s submissions archive would cease to exist and Canonfire could not use Greyhawk IP on its pages. Canonfire, as we know it would cease to exist.

    A distinction was, however, made with respect to discussion lists and web hosted message boards. Because both closely resembled a private conversation, albeit among dozens, hundreds or thousands of persons, TSR did not attempt to have such fora shuttered. This is best exemplified by the old AOL Greyhawk et al. message board and the old listservs. At the same time TSR was moving to shutter fan websites that presented fan created ()D&D material or that used TSR IP on those sites, the AOL message boards and the listservs went unmolested, even if they held similar material. (The AOL D&D message boards eventually became sufficiently popular that TSR determined to create an “official” presence on AOL to better control/leverage the traffic.)

    While the foregoing might suggest that Canonfire’s message boards would then be immune to a cease and desist order, this is not a certainty. Because Canonfire is a Greyhawk specific website, it could well be that its message boards would be distinguishable from those of the old AOL and listservs. Certainly, AOL and the listservs were less easily intimidated targets. Practically, if IP violation were claimed in the context of Canonfire’s message boards by Wotc and a cease and desist letter were sent, I suspect the threat of litigation would be sufficient to shutter Canonfire, message boards and all.

    Canonfire, and similar fan websites, therefore exist solely at the sufferance of Wotc. Arguably, Wotc could change its policy to something similar to TSR’s original web policy and look to shutter all fan websites. While they might risk angering fans, that would be no legal impediment. (The only legal impediment might be that by allowing the infringement of their IP on fan websites to this point without a specific license to each such site, Wotc has lost the ability to halt such infringement because the conduct is no longer infringing in that specific context, if it ever was, an argument that would thereby seem to be somewhat buttressed. The idea of a general “policy license” that need not be acknowledged by the “licensee” is untested in court to my knowledge.) The practicality, however, remains the same - a cease and desist letter will work as well as an injunction because no fan website is going to be able to incur the costs of litigation.

    Accordingly, Canonfire is well advised to self-censor, and to err on the side of caution, lest Wotc determine to address itself to any perceived “problems” with Canonfire, with the likely result that Canonfire would shutter or become subject to increased scrutiny, with the likely result that Canonfire would shutter.

    That Living Greyhawk creations are problematic has been amply demonstrated. The best advice is then to leave Living Greyhawk creations entirely alone and out of any discussion on Canonfire. The Living Greyhawk Gazateer is the only exception because it has been print published to a general audience and thus takes on the character of a typical Greyhawk logoed product rather than a Living Greyhawk, strictly RPGA, creation, despite the name.

    From a canon perspective, Living Greyhawk campaign materials are not canon beyond the Living Greyhawk Gazateer (and one might argue with that). Certainly, the modules have never been published and are held as private to the RPGA Living Greyhawk Campaign, rending them noncanonical.

    There then seems no reason to discuss Living Greyhawk materials and every reason not to discuss them.

    Please note I am not expressing any opinion on the quality of Living Greyhawk materials. Nor am I disagreeing that some might find such to their liking or interesting more generally. I am suggesting that Living Greyhawk materials should not be discussed on Canonfire in any detail for the reasons outlined above - there is much that might be risked thereby for comparatively little gain.

    PS - And what Woesinger said.
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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:35 pm  

    GVDammerung wrote:
    There then seems no reason to discuss Living Greyhawk materials and every reason not to discuss them.


    Your logic is sound even if the conclusion is a bit disappointing.

    The main reason to discuss LG content is that many of the ideas and plot threads are interesting and build on existing canon, which many people disagree on in any event. And if you're the owner of LG IP, what's to stop you giving permission and discussing away!

    I would have thought that most LG IP owners would lack the resources to mount an IP challenge for a worthless cease and desist order. The real impetus behind not using IP without permission is that it's disrespectful, and Greyhawkers should follow the Four Feet of the Dragon Wink

    The stupid thing is, many of us WANT to buy the information legitmately but the system is set up to make it a nigh impossible task. Maybe the guy with all the mods on his computer should contact all the authors about hosting a pdf download site for retired mods where they can get a cut of the profits Cool Come on, somebody is going to do it eventually...
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    Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:48 pm  

    I would suggest that this discussion of copyrights, legality, and use of said material be moved to a new thread, as this was not my intention of my original post. I just wanted to know if the LG modules were worth anything, nothing more.
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    Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:49 am  

    gargoyle wrote:
    I would suggest that this discussion of copyrights, legality, and use of said material be moved to a new thread, as this was not my intention of my original post. I just wanted to know if the LG modules were worth anything, nothing more.


    Apparently you cannot have more of an answer than some are good and some are bad because if anyone supplies more of an answer, Vecna will eat that person's children.
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    Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:44 pm  

    Discussing LG scenarios is fine here. Posting reviews of them, either on the forum or in the reviews database, is also fine. Posting summaries of the plotlines or summaries of any interesting canon bits is fine, though I would suggest avoiding doing so for currently active scenarios, and the posting of actual citations from the documents, even statblocks is probably best avoided, since a lot of material in the scenarios appears again in running plotlines, and may spoil later adventures for those who wish to play them.

    Posting the entire documents, or instructions on how to illegally procure them is not ok.

    If you want to find the LG material that you can legally acquire, I'd check out the LG website (www.wizards.com/greyhawk) or google up your state or countries LG triad site.

    The reasoning behind this, as opposed to quoting from published TSR/WotC material is simple. The LG campaign needs a spoiler and cheater free environment to work. Providing details of each scenario when it comes out offers a resource for cheaters, and a temptation for those players who mean well but want an "edge" in play. As a GH fansite, it's my opinion that canonfire should serve the best interest of the fans, and for the fans who compose the target audience for LG scenarios, posting them here, even in abridged format, is not in their best interest.
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    Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:56 am  

    I think that's the simplest, most most sensible, most proportionate way of putting things I've ever seen Happy

    Btw - on the initial topic: I've only seen the Ratik modules that were made publically available when the group on Hawaii folded. The mods were basic, with some background if they were a chapter in a series, and easily capable of modification to fit home campaigns. On par with some Dungeon magazine adventures but not as good as the best ones. The most interesting parts are the overall plot arcs.
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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:38 pm  

    DMPrata wrote:
    You know my beef with LG (and the RPGA in general)? I would gladly pay for those materials if they'd only let me. In order to join the RPGA, I must attend an event. I can't just send them a check. I don't have the time or inclination to travel to some out-of-state con (I'm in RI) to play in (or run) a 3.5 game. I just want access to the LG resources for my own home game. Again, I'd certainly pay for this access, but the RPGA doesn't seem to want my money. Confused


    You clearly misunderstand the way the RPGA works. If you want the adventures, they are free to access. The only limitation is regional adventures. All it requires is having access to the internet. You need not attend any event whatsoever. All you need to do is pass the Herald-level GM test and then order your own gamedays or home games through the RPGA website. It is really a very simple process, there is just a small learning curve to get over first.

    Admittedly, a shortcoming of the LG campaign is that you cannot play in regional adventures for regions you do not live in, but unless you live and breathe D&D games, the regional adventures and core adventures (not to mention the fact that WotC adventures are now available for play as adaptable adventures in LG) will provide you with plenty of gaming on a regular basis. It is easily enough to fill a weekly campaign meeting for 4 to 5 hours. Add in the adaptable adventures and you probably have enough to fill two weekly campaigns. You don't even have to follow the LG rules for character advancement and tracking. You can simply use your own campaign rules and run the adventures as you like. The only downside to this is that your players could not then take their characters to another LG campaign.

    You don't have to travel out of state, send them a check, or even pay for anything. All you have to do is demonstrate you know how to look up rules in a rulebook (pass the Herald-level test) and download the adventures. What you do with the adventures from there is up to you (short of providing them illegally to others). You can run them as an official sanctioned RPGA gameday or run them as part of your home campaign.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 23, 2002
    Posts: 46
    From: Texas

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    Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:47 pm  

    And to answer the question of whether obtaining the adventures is worth it: yes, at least for Bandit Kingdoms adventures since I am the current overseer of them. :)

    Other regions have good stuff as well. Dyvers is well known for preserving canon well. Furyondy and Highfolk do it passably well. I suggest staying away from any regions in the Sheldomar Valley however unless you like high fantasy and high magic reminiscent of the Forgotten Realms.

    Here in the Bandit Kingdoms, we are nitty gritty. Our adventures are tough and our NPCs are evil. PCs are often forced to choose between evil and the lesser evil, if there even is a lesser evil. There are some bastions of good (usually at best neutrality) like Dimre and Johrase, but most parts of our region are thoroughly debased and still under the grip of Iuz.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
    Posts: 937
    From: Woonsocket, RI, USA

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    Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:56 am  

    airwalkrr wrote:
    You clearly misunderstand the way the RPGA works. If you want the adventures, they are free to access. The only limitation is regional adventures. All it requires is having access to the internet. You need not attend any event whatsoever. All you need to do is pass the Herald-level GM test and then order your own gamedays or home games through the RPGA website. It is really a very simple process, there is just a small learning curve to get over first.

    Admittedly, a shortcoming of the LG campaign is that you cannot play in regional adventures for regions you do not live in, but unless you live and breathe D&D games, the regional adventures and core adventures (not to mention the fact that WotC adventures are now available for play as adaptable adventures in LG) will provide you with plenty of gaming on a regular basis. It is easily enough to fill a weekly campaign meeting for 4 to 5 hours. Add in the adaptable adventures and you probably have enough to fill two weekly campaigns. You don't even have to follow the LG rules for character advancement and tracking. You can simply use your own campaign rules and run the adventures as you like. The only downside to this is that your players could not then take their characters to another LG campaign.

    You don't have to travel out of state, send them a check, or even pay for anything. All you have to do is demonstrate you know how to look up rules in a rulebook (pass the Herald-level test) and download the adventures. What you do with the adventures from there is up to you (short of providing them illegally to others). You can run them as an official sanctioned RPGA gameday or run them as part of your home campaign.


    From the RPGA FAQ page:
    Quote:
    Only people with RPGA numbers can take the test to become Herald GMs. How can I get an RPGA number?

    Go play in an RPGA sanctioned event, and you will get a RPGA number there. You can then use it to take the test.

    I can't take the test without first becoming an RPGA member. I can't become an RPGA member without playing in a sanctioned event. What part of this do I "clearly misunderstand"?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 736
    From: Bronx, NY

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    Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:40 am  

    You don't have to go to a convention, just an event. When people order their first home game they usually get a bunch of membership cards, so all you have to do is find someone close by running an event and stop by to pick up a card. You can do some checking of the RPGA database to do that.
    Of course, once you get a card and take the test, you must still run the adventures when you order them.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 11, 2001
    Posts: 635


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    Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:02 am  

    Or some kind soul could post a card?

    P.
    Cardless and soulless, alas Smile
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