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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2003
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    From: Midwood in Geoff

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    Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:39 pm  
    Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk

    Note: this is not to override the 'Expedition to' posts...

    Just curious... what do you want out of the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk book? Do you want...
    Massive dungeon crawl content?
    An in-depth and updated look at the "Free City"?
    Some of the craziness normally allotted to Zagyg?
    Formal lists of the Demi-gods once imprisoned?
    History, history, history?

    Maybe this should be made into a poll, but I thought we could get more ideas out in forum.

    Myself... I want dungeon crawl goodness steeped in history with LOTS OF HOOKS. Happy
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:40 pm  

    By the way, I also want a better title... it makes Greyhawk sound bad... at least clarify the Ruins of CASTLE Greyhawk....
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:27 am  
    Re: Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk

    MichaelSandar wrote:
    Note: this is not to override the 'Expedition to' posts...

    Just curious... what do you want out of the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk book? Do you want...
    Massive dungeon crawl content?

    yes
    MichaelSandar wrote:
    An in-depth and updated look at the "Free City"?

    yes
    MichaelSandar wrote:
    Some of the craziness normally allotted to Zagyg?

    yes
    MichaelSandar wrote:
    Formal lists of the Demi-gods once imprisoned?

    yes
    MichaelSandar wrote:
    History, history, history?

    yes

    MichaelSandar wrote:
    Maybe this should be made into a poll, but I thought we could get more ideas out in forum.

    Myself... I want dungeon crawl goodness steeped in history with LOTS OF HOOKS. Happy
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:47 am  
    Re: Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk

    MichaelSandar wrote:

    An in-depth and updated look at the "Free City"?


    No. It's an adventure, not a city supplement. Stick to the ruins and if anything, only mention elements of the city relevant to the adventure, if at all.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:29 am  

    Quote:
    (By Erik Mona) The extremely generic product description leaves me little room to discuss details without violating my NDA, but I think I can safely confirm that a significant section of the adventure takes place in the City of Greyhawk


    This was the part that had me worried...[/quote]
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:11 pm  

    I don't have a problem with more detail on the CoG: hopefully Erik was able to leverage the info and details that he and Denis had been working up for the LGJ series on each city district.
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
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    Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:47 am  

    History, History, History ----> Hell, yes, one of the things missing with many Greyhawk products is History. I would want a complete book that stretches from Olven pre-time up to the time that Zygig decided there should be a Castle on this Ancient spot. As one decends down one also goes back in time and encounters the Lost Empires of Oerth.

    Not really interested in seeing Greyhawk (city) done again but if a treatment akin to what TSR did with Lankmar along with a detailed description of the who's who (with pictures, please). It might be worth it.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:29 am  

    Call me a . . . Well, use your imagination. Wink But with the title - GREYHAWK Ruins - not CASTLE Greyhawk Ruins - it could be interesting to see the CoG as a giant ruin after some catastrophe/devastation. Big fire? Plague? War? Monster incursion? Something extra-planar? Players have to clear out the Big Bad so that CoG can recover. Eh. ::shrug:: Probably a title misprint.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:38 am  

    Quote:
    GREYHAWK Ruins - not CASTLE Greyhawk Ruins - it could be interesting to see the CoG as a giant ruin after some catastrophe/devastation


    this is what interests me. I hear expedition to Castle Ravenloft was kept fairly accurate in respects to I1, but Wolfgang Baur has made little secret that Expedition to the Demonweb Pits is NOT a rehash of Q1. I've got this weird feeling that we will see very little of Castle Greyhawk in this, and quite a bit of the City. Not bad mind you... but not, perhaps, what we expected.
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:10 pm  
    Reminds me of...

    Hi again,

    What I'm reminded of is Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, where the original dungeon is only touched on and then flies off in a completely different direction. Hopefully these worst fears will not come to pass.

    ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

    Yak-Men come to pass after taking laxatives...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:18 pm  

    I don't think I'm in danger of violating my NDA to say that there is a good deal more of the Castle than the City in the book (perhaps 2/3 vs. 1/3). It was originally going to be called "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk," but they changed the name for some reason unrelated to the content. I'd urge people not to read too much into the title insofar as the city is concerned.

    --Erik
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    From: Midwood in Geoff

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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:24 pm  

    Erik,

    good to see you on the boards, and thanks for the information... I'm glad to see that this is getting some tlc. Cool There are a lot of people who are very excited to see this coming up, and I'm one of them, so... thanks!
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:29 pm  

    iquander wrote:
    I'd urge people not to read too much into the title insofar as the city is concerned.


    Well, of course, we wouldn't want to expect that a product with the word Greyhawk in the title actually have any greyhawk content...
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:31 pm  

    MichaelSandar wrote:
    I'm glad to see that this is getting some tlc.


    TLC?
    What on earth are you talking about?

    I realize that's it's currently in fashion to shower praise on Erik and all, but how is "dont worry, there's not much on GH city in there" tlc?

    Let's keep in mind that the authors of this book are the same ones who promised heavy GH content in the Savage Tide adventure path. What'd that get us? Sasserine. Thanks! Sad
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:21 pm  
    Tsk...

    Hi again,

    Are you having trouble making nice-nice again, Rich?

    I'm at least pleased to learn that the adventure is largely castle-oriented. Mr. Mona has not said so, but I would guess that the decision to not mention the castle specifically in the title had to do with Troll Lord Games' ongoing efforts to get their version of the castle published.

    ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

    Yak-Men have already taken all the good magic items from Castle Greyhawk anyway...
    CF Admin

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    Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:21 pm  

    Hey hey folks,

    Hardcore GH fans expecting heavily detailed Greyhawk canon from WoTC are bound for disappointment. But it seems likely that those same details that are lacking will be easy enough to insert by those who buy the product and know the background from which the material is based. Use your best judgement on how to make this new offering useful in your Greyhawk games.
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:24 am  

    chatdemon wrote:
    MichaelSandar wrote:
    I'm glad to see that this is getting some tlc.


    TLC?
    What on earth are you talking about?

    I realize that's it's currently in fashion to shower praise on Erik and all, but how is "dont worry, there's not much on GH city in there" tlc?

    Let's keep in mind that the authors of this book are the same ones who promised heavy GH content in the Savage Tide adventure path. What'd that get us? Sasserine. Thanks! Sad


    Well... (IMO) I give Erik, Jason, and James credit for getting WotC to put this out there... and having the nerve to do it. Even if it is part of the "Expedition" series and not a revival. As far as content - what I meant was that I would rather see a Castle oriented adventure full of dungeon-crawling goodness... which is what I like to DM! Cool I have books, books, books, and more books detailing the CoG - and very little other than my own version of said castle.
    As far as Sasserine goes... well... I attribute that to a 3rd edition mentality, which while not bad, fits very differently from past D&D editions into Greyhawk. ymmv
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    Michael Erin Sandar Bard of Midwood
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    Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:47 am  

    iquander wrote:
    I don't think I'm in danger of violating my NDA to say that there is a good deal more of the Castle than the City in the book (perhaps 2/3 vs. 1/3). It was originally going to be called "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk," but they changed the name for some reason unrelated to the content. I'd urge people not to read too much into the title insofar as the city is concerned.

    --Erik


    Very Cool. I am surprised even 1/3 is the Free City. If I had to guess it would have been 90% mega dungeon, 10% surroundings. After all those classic Greyhawk adventures which had "tons" of information on the surrounding geography I am sure Erik wouldn't want to stray from the classics, eh? Cool
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:08 am  

    I remain wary of any attempt to publish this iconic dungeon that doesn't involve either Gygax or Kuntz and fear that it must become a work of compromise. Hopefully it will at least have some decent maps of above-average quality.
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    Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:46 am  

    Gilban wrote:
    I remain wary of any attempt to publish this iconic dungeon that doesn't involve either Gygax or Kuntz and fear that it must become a work of compromise. Hopefully it will at least have some decent maps of above-average quality.


    You mean the way Castle Zagyg is a work of compromise?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:15 pm  

    chatdemon wrote:

    Well, of course, we wouldn't want to expect that a product with the word Greyhawk in the title actually have any greyhawk content...


    The book is full of "Greyhawk content." I am confident that it will be the "most Greyhawky" book WotC has published since the LGG, including "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil." I was given absolutely no restrictions in terms of setting. Greyhawk is not called the "Free City" here and Tenser is Tenser.

    The product contains numerous dungeon levels as well as some scenes that take place in the Free City.

    --Erik
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:43 pm  

    iquander wrote:

    The book is full of "Greyhawk content." I


    Yeah, so is Savage Tide...
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:25 pm  

    Savage Tide is nominally a Greyhawk adventure, whereas this is explicitly a Greyhawk adventure. Savage Tide is set on the periphery of the Flanaess map and largely takes place in the ocean south of the Amedio Jungle and in the Abyss. "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk," on the other hand, is set in the Free City of Greyhawk and in Castle Greyhawk.

    Sorry that you feel betrayed or whatever caused all the animosity, but the new adventure is very much a Greyhawk adventure.

    --Erik
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    Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:30 pm  

    One small step for Hawk kind, one Giant step for WotC. I'm game for it. Any publicity has got to be good and anything published has got to be better. I have great faith in the integrity and heart of those that have penned this mighty Tome. Vive La Hawk.


    JKO
    GreySage

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    Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:34 pm  

    Samwise wrote:
    You mean the way Castle Zagyg is a work of compromise?


    With all the different versions of Castle Greyhawk that have been built over the years, I think compromise is a good thing. If I were designing it, I'd want to include the best parts of every incarnation of the castle and its dungeons.

    Which can be done in an individual campaign by adding new levels to the castle - levels from Castle Zagyg too, why not?
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