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    Canonfire :: View topic - Mur
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    Mur
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 01, 2005
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    Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:14 pm  
    Mur

    Other than small references in the LGG, most of the information I can find on Mur is from the LG Player's Guide to Zeif. As far as I can tell:

    The coastal [LGG 84] nation of Mur was originally settled (along with Risay and Komal) by Baklunish survivors of the Invoked Devastation. Under the despotic rule of Ghayar Khan, they made war with the indigenous peoples, nomadic horsemen whose descendents would one day be known as the Brazen Horde. [PGZ 8, 24]

    Sultana Ismuyin of Zeif is known to have concluded a treaty with Mur [LGG 137], but the two contries never co-existed peacefully for any long period of time. Finally, the Sultanate established a khedivate in Mur (258 CY), though it eventually proved unprofitable and was granted autonomy (474 CY). It remains a rare destination for modern Zeifans, with most knowing little about it. [PGZ 8, 24]

    The Player's Guide to Zeif goes into a little more detail regarding the establishment of the "First Khedivate in Mur" and "Mur's Khedivate Autonomous." However, there remains very little out there about Mur.

    Q#1: Can anyone point me to a source I've missed?
    Q#2: Anyone care to conjecture what the character of the land of Mur might be?
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2003
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    Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:24 pm  
    Re: Mur

    ephealy wrote:

    Q#1: Can anyone point me to a source I've missed?
    Q#2: Anyone care to conjecture what the character of the land of Mur might be?


    Dungeon #136, "The Coming Storm" by Greg Vaughan includes some general background info on Mur (see pp. 38-39). There also was a thread somewhere on this website several months ago debating some of the article/adventure's potential conflicts with earlier canon.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:18 pm  

    See this thread, "The Nation of Mur".
    Master Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:36 am  

    Quote:
    The coastal [LGG 84] nation of Mur was originally settled (along with Risay and Komal) by Baklunish survivors of the Invoked Devastation. Under the despotic rule of Ghayar Khan, they made war with the indigenous peoples, nomadic horsemen whose descendents would one day be known as the Brazen Horde. [PGZ 8, 24]


    If there were indigenous horsemen, how could the Bakhoury Coast have been originally settled by Baklunish refugees? Smile

    I think you mean that the Emirates were founded by Baklunish refugees, but that the lands were originally settled by tribes of (at least partly) Baklunish horsemen, who in all likelihood at least paid some tribute to Padishahs if they weren't direct subjects.

    Even that sounds like revisionism to me - fertile coastal lands tend to encourage trade and settlement (especially if there's a massive, wealthy empire on the other side of the Gulf of Ghayar). It's likely therefore that the settled natives were either driven out (to become or join the nomads inland) or were absorbed by the newcomers.

    As an aside - "Persian Fire" by Tom Holland is a very readable history of Achaemenid Persia (plus Sparta and Athens) and is an interesting starting point for thinking about the Baklunish - ancient and modern. Equally, if you want to think of the Ancient Suloise as somewhat Roman, "Rubicon" by the same author will certainly give you some food for the thinky.

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    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:38 pm  

    I won't have access to 136 until I get back to the States. Bummer. I have downloaded "The Nation of Mur" thread rasgon linked to so I can read through it offline, but in the meantime...

    Woesinger writes: "If there were indigenous horsemen, how could the Bakhoury Coast have been originally settled by Baklunish refugees?"

    Mur is not on the Bakhoury Coast. It is across the gulf to the west. The only reference I had to place it was that the Brazen Horde is said to have come from "beyond" Mur. It is also said to come from "southern Komal." Since Mur and Komal are both coastal states on the western shores of the Gulf of Ghayar, I'm assuming that the latter must wrap around to the west of the Mur. At any rate, my reference to the horsemen was my assumption that there were nomadic peoples in the area before the Baklunish refugees pushed their way north.

    My take on the Bakhoury Coast is that is was not originally settled by Baklunish refugees, but that the area was already settled (albeit sparsely) by baklunish peoples before the Invoked Devastation. I've posted a short summary I wrote up for my players in another thread.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:37 am  

    I'd always assumed the Bakhoury Coast included the far side of the Gulf (that's the way I've been using the term), but aside from that I largely agree with you. Except - as I said - the coastline itself was likely to be more than sparsely inhabited. There were likely to have been trading and fishing settlements are very likely there - especially if you allow the existence of the apparently fabulously wealthy Celestial Imperium to the west. I imagine there must have been a kind of Silk Road/Khorasan Highway over the mountains between the two empires (and wealthy caravan towns along the way).

    Stay safe!

    P.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:11 am  

    I'll have to do some research about the Celestial Imperium, as well as the geography (political and otherwise) of western Oerik before the Twin Cats. To be honest, I am new to this section of the world. It doesn't help that there are so few "good" maps of the region. (I've asked Anondson to consider making one, but that is a shot in the dark.)

    Anyway, I'll do some reading and get back on topic.

    I've gotten a chance to read the thread on Mur and the info in Dungeon 136. Other than the semantics of using "jungle" or "forest," the question does seem to be what the character of the peoples of Mur have been over the years. With Dungeon 136 saying that contact with outsiders is pushed to the coast, it seems logical to assume that this would be where the original baklunish immigrants settled. It would also be a good place for Zeif's failed Khedivate.

    It may also be semantics, but the background in Dungeon states that the Brazen Horde were Komali. This is not true - they were from southern Komal, but they were long-time enemies of the Komali.

    In the end, the adventure background has raised many concerns, but I think it adds many wonderful ideas to the concept of Mur. I have no problem with the obahs, the multi-armed people, etc...

    I am considering taking the elements of GV's background and melding it with the real-world culture of ancient Urartu (eastern Turkey). I have also considered using the Assyrians as a template for the Komali. That is, assuming I can do so before an "official" version of the cultures is published somewhere ;)
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:34 am  

    Yeah - I got the vibe that the Brazen Horde nomads and the settled Komali didn't get on. In fact, I've speculated here before that the BH came from the western side of the mountains (where the map of Oerik in the Dungeon Annual 1 shows the existence of a High and Low Khanate to the north of the Celestial Imperium). I have a theory that these peoples are part of the greater Baklunish people (similar to the way that Turkic peoples are/were scattered all the way from Asia Minor to Mongolia). It's possible that the ancestors of the BH came east and occupied the steppes of southern Komal, raiding the settled peoples near the coast and earning their enmity.


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