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    Canonfire :: View topic - Who are the Zahindi?
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    Who are the Zahindi?
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Mon May 14, 2007 1:51 pm  
    Who are the Zahindi?

    Rasgon and Woesinger have addressed this issue in other other forums. Here is my take after reading their posts as well as Iquander's Bound of Oerik and other sources that I am incorporating.

    The Touv in Xamaclan are incidental migration due to trade.

    The "s" in Davann might very well be Suel, if the albino Vulzar are Suel. If so, I see then as a third Suel migration branch, that is one in addition to those accompaning empire building and the RoCF.

    The Olman, IMO, except for incidental migration due to trade mostly in Changar, are from the proto-stock, so they would not have the Olman gods, but would never-the-less had a major impact on the Zoomorphic aspect of the Zahindian gods, whoever they might be.

    Didn't really want to have the Baklunish, but that is hard to avoid in indian culture, as well as the modules, and I think this is a good compromise.

    Perhaps I should move the norther border of the Oeridian migration up, just for accuracy.


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    Plar of Poofy Pants
    GreySage

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    Mon May 14, 2007 3:02 pm  

    Nice map.

    I would keep the Baklunish restricted to the northern part of the Sea of Dust, not venturing much further south than that. While it might be difficult to keep Muslims out of Indian culture, the Baklunish aren't Muslims and the Zahindi aren't Indians, so I don't think that's really a problem. Anything that causes the region to diverge from Earth parallels is for the good.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue May 15, 2007 5:23 am  

    ::delurk::

    It's almost certain that the Suel had significant contact with Zahind before the RoCF. Zahind offered a route to a sea, trade, spices and therefore wealth. And as the Turks say - "The Red Apple attracts stones". :)

    ::relurk::

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    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Tue May 15, 2007 7:18 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    Nice map.


    Thanks.

    And thanks for the comment.

    rasgon wrote:

    I would keep the Baklunish restricted to the northern part of the Sea of Dust, not venturing much further south than that. While it might be difficult to keep Muslims out of Indian culture, the Baklunish aren't Muslims and the Zahindi aren't Indians, so I don't think that's really a problem. Anything that causes the region to diverge from Earth parallels is for the good.


    I don't know that I agree 100% with the last statement, but I do have some agreement. As to the rest, that is kind of what I did. You will notice that except in Kestrel, there are no big "B"s, only "b"s. I thought it was necessary to address the persian element from india and the Dervishes in the module X4 and IIRC, some names. Never the less, those things should get a good makeover, IMO, to make them uniquely Zahindi. The Dervishes should not be like Muslims, or overly like those in the the north. Also, once I established B in Kestrel, little bs seemed almost natural south given that it is along a major trade route north.
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    Plar of Poofy Pants
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    Tue May 15, 2007 7:24 am  

    Woesinger wrote:
    ::delurk::

    It's almost certain that the Suel had significant contact with Zahind before the RoCF. Zahind offered a route to a sea, trade, spices and therefore wealth. And as the Turks say - "The Red Apple attracts stones". :)

    ::relurk::

    P.


    If you are lurking, I'll keep posting!

    I made a subsequent change to add an "S" in Urlaash per Greyhawk Adventures. I might have made another minor change or two. S had their Red Apple in Changar, but they also had their Green Apple in Kushmur for trade and war with the Celestial Imperium.
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    Plar of Poofy Pants
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    Tue May 15, 2007 8:58 pm  

    Wolfsire, I like what you're doing with Zahind. The maps are creative and your research shows your zeal for the region. I don't have any info to add for you though, because I'm in awe of the subject I guess. Just keep up the good work.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed May 16, 2007 7:37 am  

    mortellan wrote:
    Wolfsire, I like what you're doing with Zahind. The maps are creative and your research shows your zeal for the region. I don't have any info to add for you though, because I'm in awe of the subject I guess. Just keep up the good work.


    Thanks. I'm having fun. I probably have what little info there is on the area. But if anyone spots anything, please let me know. It will be a long process to take that and harmonize it with the sources I am incorporating, but that is what I enjoy.

    A couple of weeks ago I decided to write up something on Xamaclan and figured I need to know something about Zahindia (that is the name I'm going with) and it just took off from there. Not crazy about the idea of ripping of Mystara, but there it is. I prefer to use indian themed modules for this area.

    Not sure how I'll address it but here is something for thought. I came across a few people bemoaning the Kara-Tur (sp?) monks in tSB described in Fate of Istus, suggesting that it is best ignored. My approach to canon is to harmonize as much as possible and this looked like a good opportunity.

    Looking at X4 there is a Bhutan style monestary destroyed by invasion. Per Mona's Bounds, there are almost pure Suel nearby (that is why I broke off Kushmur from Chomur) and as well as a Shambabla like Behow with a major Suel influence. Zahindia has a major suel history. I just read something about Kungfu being created in China after martial arts were introduced from India.

    It looks pretty good for a harmonization. The "Master" from Hule invades Mulwar a little over 100 years ago, monks flee through a gate and end up in tSB. tSB already has martial arts, but they are very interested in the new (or rather old) style and the Suel history, especially one that they can read to support their ideaology. They would certainly see this as supporting the idea that the Suel invented martial arts and as a source for pure Suel people and ideas.

    Of course, original maps are not mine, but I've added stuff. I'll have more after I'm done mining and hopefully a gazateer.
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    Mon May 21, 2007 6:00 pm  

    IMV, the Zahindi are (barely) veiled inhabitants of Earth's Indian Subcontinent and I both have no problem with this and like it this way. Much as have no problem with and like the Mezoamerican inspired Olman.

    Culturally, I believe there is everything necessary to create a passable "Indian" Zahind with a unique GH twist.

    Referring to the Dragon Annual Map -

    1) The Nippon Dominion links the Celestial Imperium with Nippon. This allows the "Chinese" to influence the "Japanese" in something of a real world fashion, albeit more attenuated.

    2) Nippon's position vis a vis Zahind, however, argues for a stronger cultural influence than Japan ever had on India. In essence, where India was open to be influenced by and to influence China, Zahind is open to be influenced equally (or unequally) by the Japanese Nippon and the Chinese Celestial Imperium. And the other way round, as well, as Zahind influences Nippon and the Celestial Imperium. The open question being who influences whom more - DMs choice.

    3) At the same time, there is a wild card in the form of the Suel Imperium. Perhaps, as India was influenced by Central Asian cultures, resulting in the Moghul Period, Zahind was similarly influenced by the Suel Imperium.

    Culturally, then, IMV, Zahind is India-esque but with enough GH specific twists to be unique to the setting. YMMV.
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    Wed May 23, 2007 10:39 am  

    People of Zahindia

    1. Changari Noble: Mostly Suel with some Kersi and other blood. Appears as a very light skinned “black” with wavy red hair.

    2. Jahindi Noble: Almost equal parts of Kersi, Olman and Torhoon. Tall, handsome purple-black skinned with wavy black hair, slightly longish faces and hands and slightly elongated incisor teeth.

    3. Coastal Commoner: Varies, but with a mix of most of the races. Medium to small (pigmy) build. Appears as an Asiatic Negrito, like Tiger Woods in the west and Dravidians in the east, with skin tones varying from black to tan and kinky to straight hair.

    4. Dervish: Pure Bakluni.

    5. Bantanese: Mostly Suhfangi with a strong Kersi influence. Appears as a dark skinned southeast asian with wavy black hair.

    6. Vanara: Monkey men.

    7. Desert Nomads: Other than Dervish. Varies, but mostly appear as Mongols or Berbers.

    8. Kushmuri: Pure Suel.

    9. Yakshar: Derro (note: I have them as neutral having been saved by Ulla/Uma and on good terms with the the Apsara).

    10. Apsara: Blue elf (light to dark skinned, off shoot of Grey with possible Drow blood). Straight or curly hair varies from red to back. Women tent to be wide hipped and large breasted (per indian mythology Wink . (note: men tend to be only interested in playing music and singing and women dancing. Long life inspires many Zahindi deities to be seen as blue skinned.)
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    Thu May 24, 2007 9:46 am  

    I'm having trouble reading the text on your map, but it looks very interesting.

    My changes would be:

    Make Kestrel obsw, a true melting pot where no one culture dominated at all.

    If you wanted a 'B' I'd put it in Sa'han, with Behan and Kushmur having 'b'. However, I doubt they ever moved further south. Those that did were assimilated so completely into the native population that it's not worth trying to quantify.

    Sa'han should have a 'W'. In fact, I would make it 'WB', myabe 'WBo'. If you wanted to differentiate between Eastern and Western Baklunish cultures, make an 'R' stand for 'Risari', and make Sa'han 'WRbo'.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Thu May 24, 2007 8:30 pm  

    Quote:
    I'm having trouble reading the text on your map, but it looks very interesting.


    Sorry. I made the map bigger, shrank it for posting and the font did shrink too good.

    Quote:
    My changes would be:

    Make Kestrel obsw, a true melting pot where no one culture dominated at all.


    Ill give that some though. As a populated area next to Zahindia with trade routs, I had to put something there. What came to mind is the northern nomads (Wolf, Tiger). I figured the B moved in after the Twin Cats. Kestrel is a hawk native to Turkey, among other places. Im certainly open to ideas.

    Quote:
    If you wanted a 'B' I'd put it in Sa'han, with Behan and Kushmur having 'b'. However, I doubt they ever moved further south. Those that did were assimilated so completely into the native population that it's not worth trying to quantify.


    I do not have many ideas about Sahan, other than that is the western most province of the Celestial Imperium. Kushmur has a b. But I would not put one in Behow. I see that area as the equivalent of Shangrala/Shambala. Farther south they are a very small population. I added them to account specifically for dervish and bakluni names in some of the modules.

    Quote:
    Sa'han should have a 'W'. In fact, I would make it 'WB', myabe 'WBo'. If you wanted to differentiate between Eastern and Western Baklunish cultures, make an 'R' stand for 'Risari', and make Sa'han 'WRbo'.


    That sounds reasonable. I did not note the ethnicity because it was not directly adjacent. I have not heard of the Risari before.
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    Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:44 pm  

    In my group's campaign, my character is a cleric who follows Kelanen by a different name. The character's culture and religious practices are loosely based on Sikhism. Kelanen is a neutral alignment deity worshipped by swordsmen/Khalsa Sikhs carry a Kirpan/sword at all times and are tolerant of all religions and races. It makes sense to me.

    The game takes place in the Flanaess, and I've envisioned him as a descendent of refugees following the twin cataclysm. He's been partially accepted by some of Kelanen's followers in the Flanaess, but he doesn't quite fit in what with his strange customs and funny accent.

    He's very much a work in progress.

    I was originally going to have his culture originate from Zindia/Zahindia, but then I found TalMeta's Sunelan Coast articles, which made sense to me, so I though of placing my guy's ancestors up in Ull.

    Today, I read the Ull Gazetteer, which I liked, and I'm thinking of making him a 2nd or 3rd generation Yorodhi whose parents/grandparents fled east and settled down. Unless folk already have different ideas about the Yorodhi, I think Sikh culture might be a neat way to flavour them, resisting their Uli oppressors, etc... Nothing I've read on this site would directly contradict that, as far as I can see.

    ON THE OTHER HAND...

    And then today, I found this forum thread about Zahindia, which makes we want to re-think the character and place his ancestors south of the Sea of Dust again.

    But I'm confused. Looking at the maps, Zahindia and TalMeta's Sunelan Coast look like their the same place. Am I reading the maps wrong, or are they just alternate versions of the same region?

    Regardless, if you've done more work on your Zahindia Gazetteer since your last posting, I'd love to see it. I've been reading a lot about real-world Punjab history to get ideas for a back-story for my character and his ancestors that fits into Greyhawk.

    Anybody have any ideas? I still like the idea of making him Yorodhi, after reading the Ull articles and the Oeridian Religious History article, but now I have the urge to connect his culture to Zahindia somehow.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:55 pm  

    I've mostly concerned myself with lore about the Baklunish peoples. Unless you're looking into NW Zahind, I doubt I'd be much help. Sorry. :(
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    Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:20 am  

    As a matter of fact, I thought NW Zahindia would be a good spot for a minority "Sikhesque" culture, squeezed between other more dominant cultures according to the famous Greyhawk Adventures map of Oerth: http://www.sodabob.com/roleplay/dnd/Maps/files/tsroerth.gif
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:04 am  

    roystonlodge wrote:
    are they just alternate versions of the same region?

    Regardless, if you've done more work on your Zahindia Gazetteer since your last posting, I'd love to see it.


    Yes. I have not done any work in quite a while, but search the forums, there shoud be someother threads with info.
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    Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:04 am  

    roystonlodge wrote:
    are they just alternate versions of the same region?

    Regardless, if you've done more work on your Zahindia Gazetteer since your last posting, I'd love to see it.


    Yes. I have not done any work in quite a while, but search the forums, there shoud be someother threads with info.
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