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The non-GH 4e thread!
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chatdemon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: The non-GH 4e thread! Reply with quote

Quote:
Hello All.

The announcement of 4th Edition is a pretty big event for all RPG fans. It's a huge event for all of us at Wizards of the Coast, including WotC staff and our WizO support team. We understand that this is something many of you are going to feel very passionate about in a number of ways.

We've created this forum for few reasons. We want everyone to have a single discussion forum where they can get answers and information directly from the D&D staff. We also want to prevent the other forums from being overwhelmed with 4E posts to the point that it drowns out any of the natural discussion in those areas. Additionally, I want to have a single forum where our community can post their hopes, fears, concerns, and dreams about 4E. This will make it easier for the D&D staff to read community feedback, and to (hopefully) provide a lot of answers to your questions.

The WizOs will be moderating this forum and others. They are acting on the direction of Wizards of the Coast, so if you're upset with their moderation, please don't take it out on the WizOs. Their goals will be clear: Keep 4th Edition discussion in the 4E forum. This might mean locking threads and/or moving posts.

If you have concerns, questions, or issues about the forum moderation taking place after the 4th Edition announcement, I've created a thread here where you may discuss your concerns.

Finally, please try to be respectful in your posts and comments. Be nice to other posters, the WizOs, and WotC staff. The WizOs will be enforcing all Code of Conduct rules on all forums as usual.

If you have any suggestions or ideas on how I can do a better job of helping to facilitate communication between the D&D Staff and the Community, I've created a thread here.

Thanks!
-Mike
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The 4e forum on wotc/gleemax:
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=686
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GreyHack
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey folks,
At least until after GenCon, when more is known about 4e and the CF staff is all back on duty, keep all 4e talk to this thread to avoid clutter amid the regular topics.

Thanks.
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DavidBedlam
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what's wrong with 3.5? I don't have any problems with it, so why do we need a new system?
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a new system comes out it will be so that WOTC can make more money.

They are possibly getting to the point of having a tough time coming up with new hardcover ideas for the future. Keep in mind that any book is probably planned out and being written at least a year before it sees the bookshelf. If they are having a tough time coming up with product ideas for say 2009 on, then it is time to start over.

Anyone notice the increase in modules lately. When 3rd edition came out WOTC printed just a few modules in the first year or two (about 10 total), then once in a very great while (many months later) you might get one more module. Now in the last year or so they suddenly start publishing more again (more than their original number). The upswing in modules might be because they are having a tough time with new product ideas for the future.

Also, with a new edition it is more than likely they will exhaust Forgetton Realms and Ebberon and move on to a new world to introduce with the new edition. Again, more sales (at least in their minds).

A new set of rules requires everyone who wants to keep up with the game to buy completely new material covering the core rules. In addition it gives them the opportunity to reprint all of the monsters again, asking people to re-buy them as well in order to keep up. Finally, all of the extra supplement rules we find in the race books, complete series books, and so on which provide all of the extras that couldn't fit into the core rules also be re-purchased.

It isn't about making a better game system. Sure they may think they can do better (and they probably can, heck a lot of people could make a better set of rules) but that is secondary to earning more dollars.

First edition outgrew itself so they re-packaged it to sell more than came up with a bunch of ideas for extra books. They were in soft bound books because TSR didn't think anyone would pay more hardcover books. WOTC acquired the company and radiacally changed the game to make it their own and promote sales. It worked. The first 3rd edition supplements were again softbound. Then they took a leap....lets see if they buy more hardcover books, if it works we will make more money. They tried it and it worked. Now after 50 books plus in hardcover, they are feeling like...."Where do we go from here, we used up all of our ideas, Oh I know, lets start all over again". "But why should we do that?" So we can make more money!".

Am I making my point? Anyone agree? Anyone disagree?
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and I forgot to mention.......starting over allows WOTC to make a compatible electronic version or electronic supplements as well. Why....so they can make more money.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*

Maybe I've started getting cynical in my twenties, but that has the ring of truth to it Eileen. I was kinda hoping that I wouldn't get cynical until middle age. :(
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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3e was an improvement but it is getting top heavy and confusing as the pcs go up in levels - I hate all those spells lasting minutes and hours that of which I have to keep track. An online tracker might be helpful though.

It's impossible to guage whether 4.0 will be any better until we see the basics in December.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course they're trying to make more money. They're a business. If WotC doesn't make money, then they don't make products. If they don't make products, then you can't buy them.

I don't fault WotC for wanting to make money. A company is made of people, and people like to get raises. They like to be rewarded for their efforts, and they deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. Would you do your job if you weren't getting paid? If they come up with a way to make more money and improve the lives of their families, then more power to 'em.

If I fault WotC for anything, it's for not caring about their loyal customers enough. I think they could have done a much better job of tailoring their products and their PR to match the desires of their customer base. Their marketing strategy is now aimed at getting new customers at the expense of their old ones. It's a little like having your wife leave you for a younger guy. Kinda hurts.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all,

Here is a bit more details... looks like new PH in May 2008:

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/519193/

Bryan Blumklotz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i mostly agree on the ideas about 4th ed being more commercial than systems upgrade.

as we all know, WotC was much more commercial than TSR. they didn't just publish hardcover and more expensive books, they rewamped the whole ruleset as to appeal a younger and wider audience. dull settings (no GH, planescape or darksun), more hack and slash, more powerplay, less character and story development and less roleplaying.

now, i think that this failed to be succesful in the long term, since nearly all the people who prefer hack and slash RPGing now play online MMOs, mainly the (in)famous World of Warcraft. on the other hand, people who were more roleplay oriented moved to other systems like WoD, exalted, GURPS etc...

now i see two paths for 4th ed, if it will be any different than 3rd.

most probably and pessimistically, they will make it WoW, played tabletop. you've probably seen the knight class, it was a WoW warrior converted to DnD. aggro, taunt, dps, heal and stuff... will be pure action, level up, collect item sets etc...

very unlikely but optimistically, seeing tabletop rpgs are for real rpers now, they will make radical changes and focus on roleplaying and atmosphere. they have strong background and material to do this. they might even publish GH, darksun, birthright and planescape books again.

the only thing that attracts my attention about 4th ed is the slimmest possibilty of the second.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theminiaturespage.com wrote:
The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options


In my cynical eye, this means that the WoW-ization of D&D continues apace. Crunch is favored over character. D&D has always been a combat-and-action-oriented game, but I've not seen it be so unabashedly geared to powergamers as 3.X is.

Quote:
D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters,


OK, useful, but it probably won't have any meaning for those who want to use 3.5 (and assuredly no meaning for those using 1st Editon or 2nd Editon AD&D).

Quote:
online magazine content,


So they killed Dragon and Dungeon so they could bring out a new and "improved" 4E magazine online?

Quote:
and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.


Or those who are so addicted to MMORPGs that they won't leave their house to meet with D&D-playing friends or even failing that seek out a local RPGA group. Again, it's the WoW-ization of the tabletop game. "If you cn't beat WoW, join WoW."

Quote:
Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters.


Who wants to bet that the worlds will be Forgotten Realms and Eberron again?

Quote:
The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D Experience gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.


About the only thing that those of us who want to play the previous and current editions can use right off the bat would be the minis.

My own thoughts: I'm a relatively long-standing gamer. I cut my teeth playing in junior high with AD&D 2nd Edition and the old WEG Star Wars d6 System game. I went along with 3E, and 3.5. I've played in all three major editions of D&D by now. Unless they really wow me with the new system, I'm not sure I'll follow them into a fourth.
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubbagump:
I completely understand where your coming from in regards to WOTC wanting more money. I realize that a paycheck is why almost everyone takes a job. No critisism to your point, everyone is out to make money in order to have a better life, I understand this.

Here's my point:

WOTC seem to think that our pockets our lined with gold and we carry everfull purses. I for one do not. I invested heavily into 1st edition shortly after D&D came out. I bought just a few items for 2nd edition and didn't play much of it, but I did regularly keep up on looking at products on the shelves to see what was happening and at the time I was playing Top Secret/S.I. I decided to step back into D&D with 3rd edition and I had always kept up my Dragon magazines from the early 80's.

My investment into 3rd edition has been huge. Now I knew they would make a 4th edition, that in itself doesn't bother me. So far, if what I have read is true it appears more and more like what we at home have talked about it being like, computer oriented, re-doing material when they have over expanded themselves in products and ideas, less roleplaying, more power (not the reasons why I game). I am a roleplayer. Always have been, always will be.

I regret to say that I thought they would at least be able to make it for
10-12 years with 3rd edition (3.5 whatever) before taking this step. The only reason 3.5 exists is because they had to clean 3rd edition up due to rushing game design to fast.

Sure just like others out there, I'll purchase the Players Handbook or at the very least look at it in the store just to see what they did with D&D. If it fails to be compatible with the current edition then I age just all that much more. Can't keep up financially, won't choose to, not as long as I'm just a DM who writes (or tries to write) an occasional article and not be paid for it.

My library consists of 50+ books, all of which are in perfect condition other than the core three books which get a lot of use. Why are they in perfect condition....too much material to keep up with in an attempt to implement it into the game. Why on Oerth would I set aside thouands of dollars of D&D products (I re-purchased countless modules after foolishly selling mine many years ago because I wasn't playing and I needed the money that bad at the time, won't make that mistake again).

Now many of us (including myself) said the same thing when 3rd edition came out, but after reviewing it I did decide to leap in. Now I'm older, have invested far more than I did with 1st and 2nd edition combined and hardly scratched the surface of getting the material into the world. I kept up on it for 3 reasons.....

1. I knew my daughter would enjoy the game and I wanted to instill
gaming into her in hopes that she would carry with her and get all
of the positives out of it that I did. I accomplished this. She is now
almost 15 and plays with her friends as I did when I was a teen.

2. I have always enjoyed Greyhawk more than I actually loved the game
and I wanted to keep it alive (at least within myself).

I eventually discovered over the years that I can fall in love with
another game which as a teen didn't think was possible. My Dragon
magazine 4 poster map, Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk module,
and some of the other Greyhawk items mean more to me than the
actual rulebooks as does my Top Secret/S.I. game.

3. I have always wanted to break into the bussiness and D&D always
seemed like the best outlet to do that.

But for me, despite how good or interesting a 4th edition could be......I can't and won't start all over. Oh I'll keep gaming. I will either continue playing with our current edition, go back to Top Secret/S.I. or very possibly to back to creating a Legion of Super-heroes roleplaing game which I tinkered with last year (my roots go back to this further than D&D).

I'm curious to see what they will do, not curious from a consumer point of view but as a sideline fan cheering for the old days which I can look back on to, I don't intend to look ahead. I don't and never will have gold lined pockets or an everfull purse.

I had truly hoped that before this day arrived, WOTC would have sold the rights to the game much like TSR had to.

Guess it didn't happen!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eileen,

I don't think that you or I (or a great many of the gamers that find their way to Canonfire) are really the target audience of a new edition. WotC would like us to follow them into it, but those of use with huge investments in our respective additions are not a good bet.

The fact is, to get new players WotC will need to reduce the barriers for entry to the game to gain new players and compete with WoW for mind share.

With that in mind, the gamble is this, will they get enough new players with a streamlined version of D&D? Will real electronic support for players and DMs be a draw?

More disturbing is the aggressive moves on WotC part to bring all IP back to WotC. Will they go after fan sites like this one in order to "protect" their IP?

Also, they can't get rid of the OGL but if they can make it less relevant by aggressively licensing 4e without using a new OGL... If most everything is being published in 4e, that sucks the life out of 3.5 OGL.

I will take a wait and see attitude on 4e. If it doesn't impress me, I have plenty of 3.5 goodness to last a long time.

My two coppers,

Bryan Blumklotz
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sracenus:

I agree with you 100% we are not the target audience. I figured I would purchase the majority of 3.5 as an gaming investment of the future. We all knew this would eventually happen, and like you I will see what they do. In the meantime my library of books will keep me busy in the years to come or I will find another gaming outlet. Hope to make great use of the purchases however.

Gaming Forever!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I'm not happy to see 4E cmoing out so soon, WotC is a COMPANY in the business of making money. And you all know that a new edition was inevitable. I just wanted to milk 3E/3.5 a little longer... Smile

That said, I am curious as to what new features 4E will bring to the gaming table. And - where is Greyhawk's place in the new D&D? I will be looking at the new material, and if it is worthwhile, I may will switch. I know I'll pick up the core books just to stay current on the new rules for articles and adventures that I'm working on even now.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gargoyle wrote:
Although I'm not happy to see 4E cmoing out so soon, WotC is a COMPANY in the business of making money. And you all know that a new edition was inevitable. I just wanted to milk 3E/3.5 a little longer... Smile


I don't think anyone is begrudging WoTC the right to turn a profit. That aside....

1. I'm not looking forward to having to purchase a whole new slate of rulebooks. Nor am I looking forward to learn and/or retraining to use the new rules.

2. Unlike 3.5 rules, 4.0 is unlikely to be 'backwards compatable' with previously existing rules. So now if I want to run the old modules, I'll have to convert them to 4.0 rules. Along with 1st ed, 2nd ed AND 3rd edition. Converting old modules to the new rules could be a growth industry.

3. will the new rules add anything to the game? Or, to put it another way, what do the new rules do better than the OLD rules? I can't answer that question as yet, since I haven't seen them. However - unless 4.0 offers a significant upgrade or ease of use over 3.5, then I doubt I'll be making the switch to 4ed any time soon (if at all).

4. From what I've read, it seems that WoTC is going to emphasize an online distribution model over the normal print run of a given product. What effect (if any) this has on the 'local gaming store' culture could be significant. I, for one, would miss my local gamer hangout.

5. I have questions about how WoTC is going to adminster their new portal website (gleemax). The concept is mildly insulting IMHO but that's not what worries me. I'm concerned about the possiblity that WoTC will steal useable ideas from their website (and users) and use them without crediting or paying the author.

6. Given the how pervasive the 3.5 ruleset is with the gamer community, I wonder what affect this will have on the Living Greyhawk folks. Will WoTC force them to make all offical events 4ed only? A year SEEMS like a lot of time to make the switch, but there's a substantial library of material that the Living Greyhawk (not to mention the RPGA) crowd would have to update. A year might not be enough time. And is it fair to force the LG people to update to 4th ed like this?

7. what about products already 'in the pipeline'? Why would I want to invest any money at all into new books if they're just going to be obsolete within a year?

At this time, I have more questions than answers. So i'm going to wait and see what pops up about 4th edition.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Gargoyle...if you've seem the new StarWars rules recently released, word has it theat the 4th(5th) Ed is basicly the same format....more minatures involved... early release most likely due to drop in sales... Confused

My two coppers worth....

So much for patronage these days... as long as your willing to fork out the coin, thats all WotC/Hasbro care about. Mad

Idea So something everyone should note... 1st, 2nd and 3rd/True 4th(3.5) Editions were (are still) fun to play.... ok...so there's no fancy hardcover release every month or continued "official" support and finding out of print books can be difficult, but those game Editions are still very much fun to play... if anything, a little bit of this, add that, change this, and voila...we have a home grown rules based D&D that works for you and your group of players (something 3/3.5 was apparently already). Nothing precludes one from playing different D&D games and running your own "home style" and say....playing in a 4th(5th) Ed Living Greyhawk game is very do-able. Just because a new Edition comes about, for some reason the last version is "old and yesterday and not playable any more"....that is so far from the truth of it all...its all so very playable and fan sites similar to CF support "new" ideas/material for your games... its endless. Smile

WotC/Hasbro has and continues to piss off allot of "core" gamers of late. If this 4th Ed dosen't have something to maintain "our" interest, they will feel the impact in sales. Wink

Further, aside from being a business, their bus-plan sucked for 3/3.5(4th) Editions. The amount of hard cover books and additional rule material over the last 3 years was huge and unheard of, loss of control of the games mechanics...making it huge, a deperate attempt to appease the Hasbro Lords with sales... firing all over the age board in the marketing strategy... plus the turn over rate of employees and heads of Dept, failing to maintain continuity....

Exclamation "Fail to Plan....Plan to Fail". Exclamation

Sadly, 4th(5th) Ed appears to be the attempt to wipe the board clean and start over... hopefully, this Edition will fare better...hopefully. Time will tell.

I for one will continue to adapt to the change (grudgingly-yes I'll grip about this as well), while maintaining a good grasp of what was... because if we do not support the change... to some degree, the company (WotC) could fold under lost sales and put D&D off the screen for awhile before someone desides to either sell it or step up and buy the Lic (similar to what WotC did to TSR)...but be wary...would the new Lic holder have the same principles or values we hold to the game. Question

Thus, the least of two evils currently is to see where this goes, how well this 4th(5th) Ed is and what the plan "may" be.

Regardless...the game must go on and will ...with or without 4th(5th) Ed or WotC/Hasbro! Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Cheerz

the AncientGamer Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BusterBudd wrote:
Quote:
Hey Gargoyle...if you've seem the new StarWars rules recently released, word has it theat the 4th(5th) Ed is basicly the same format....more minatures involved... early release most likely due to drop in sales...


No, I haven't seen the SWSE book yet. I kind of figured (like many people did) that it would be a percursor and preview of 4E, and it probably is. Again, though, who knows? It might blow our socks off! Exclamation
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So noted, but I have it on good authority that the rules system is very similar.

What if one dosen't wear socks.... Laughing


Cheerz

AncientGamer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I agree with many of the issues raised by many here. The only reason that I can see anyone would consider ugrading is that 4e is a reconciliation of all the rules that 3.5 has grown into. My group often finds in our games (in which we allow any publishers material with DM approval) that the WOTC stuff is broken. Specifically, rules in multiple WOTC supplements, when combined create unreasonably powerful results.

This isnt a big problem for me or my crew, but it would be nice if there was a rebalancing of the overall system including the supplements. I dont, however, want to be forced to buy new rules, primarily because I dont have the time to go through the learning curve, to play, or to write for, new rules.

That said, I would prefer WOTC to start concentrating on quality setting supplements. Our presence here indicates that we like Greyhawk, and would want that type of product. I have freinds who are FR fans, and they complain that the quality of the supplements has gotten abysmal.

I am not a publisher, but it seems to me that the forced upgrade to new systems consistently leaves part of the market behind. If they want $300 from me, I think they need to create more things like Expedition to CG.

Ah well, they havent published much I wanted except ECGH, and not giving them my money wont worry me that much either. I will miss Dungeon and Dragon though.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Oh, well... Reply with quote

I kinda look at it this way...

After almost 30 years of playing D&D I feel competent to provide my players with an enjoyable game without any further books or rules supplements. Therefore, none of my campaigns are going to change. It's not so much that I hate WotC or 4e, it's just that I don't see the need. WotC can do whatever they want and I don't care. For me, it's about my players and the fun we have. When it comes to Greyhawk and other settings, I haven't exhausted all the stuff I already own so I don't really feel like I need anything more. Sure, it's fun to look at the new stuff, and I enjoy designing new stuff, but I couldn't care less whether or not the new stuff I get comes from WotC or my own word processor. 4e is there whether I want it to be or not. Is it a good rules system? Who cares? I can make a good game with it or without it. Will I learn the new system? Sure I will, and I may even buy a few of the books - but that's only because I'd like to try my hand at getting a few things published just for fun.

In the old days we had a certain way of looking at rules - they were there to be broken, reworked, fixed, ignored, or otherwise messed with until they fit our needs. What was "official" was pretty much irrelevant. Why not adopt that philosophy now? If there's an idea that you like in one of the new books, then buy it. If there's not, so what? Make your own rules. Ever run a scenario that had never been written? With no notes? And no stats for the monsters? Try it sometime. I suspect most of you will be pleasantly surprised by how well you do. Rules (and new editions of D&D) provide a starting structure, but the real game is played in your own mind and in the minds of the others around your game table.

So what about all those new players out there who don't have decades of experience? What about those of us who don't have time to design our own material? There's a simple solution - just use stuff that's already out there. You really don't need anything new. It doesn't take all that long to rework the old stuff; just wing it. Seriously, try it. I feel reasonably assured that no one reading this is mentally incompetent (except perhaps for you, Duicarthan Wink ). All of you have enough intelligence to spend an hour or two just sitting down and thinking for a while about what you want your next game to be. Make a few notes for yourself, then cut loose. You'll be fine.

Don't get all worried about whether or not 4e is any good or whether or not WotC is making too much money. If you have the cash and the time, then buy the new books. If you don't, then don't buy them. D&D has never been about rules, books, or supplements. It's about a bunch of folks sitting down around a table and having fun. You don't need to buy a book to do that. Just because they make it and put it on the shelf doesn't mean you have to buy it. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses in D&D.

Now go gather up your friends and go through the Keep on the Borderlands again. Stop stressing over what WotC does. D&D is about relaxing, folks - so relax.
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Kirt
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Joined: Jan 05, 2002
Posts: 671
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can imagine lots of DM tools I would use (but don't know how to write).
More computer support is great...but at least from what the add said, it looks like another trend is the marginalization of the the role of DM.

Especially the part about logging on to play 24/7. They are definately chasing the WoW demographic. Which means less plot, less story, less nuance, more pre-designed fights, and eventually no need for a (live) DM. The role of DM is being replaced by a program that does what programs do well - calculate - and does not do what humans do well - anticipate, learn, respond, etc.

I actually don't mind much, though...the release of 4E vindicates my decision not to learn 3E. I have one campaign, ongoing since 1987 that is a 1E/2E hybrid and another ongoing since 1983 that is Classic D&D. I don't have much interest in learning new rules every product cycle. I am not their demographic - they don't have much to sell me except 1E/2E PDF's and miniatures.
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My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer.&nbsp; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mp7Ikko8SI
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gargoyle
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Joined: May 14, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing does intice me, just a little; 4E is going to be released "campaign neutral", no "core" setting. WotC will be updating various worlds, one per year, starting with the Misbegotten Realms ( Wink ). After that... could Greyhawk get some new life?? Happy True, it would update it for 4E, but it could still mean new material....
Maybe...
In another year, or two, or more...
Just a thought.
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weaver95
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Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gargoyle wrote:
One thing does intice me, just a little; 4E is going to be released "campaign neutral", no "core" setting. WotC will be updating various worlds, one per year, starting with the Misbegotten Realms ( Wink ). After that... could Greyhawk get some new life?? Happy True, it would update it for 4E, but it could still mean new material....
Maybe...
In another year, or two, or more...
Just a thought.


I'm not sure I trust WoTC to do the setting justice anymore. I mean, look at the heavy handed last minute edit to their recent Greyhawk product - they untethered Castle Greyhawk from GREYHAWK. No more castle. Y'know - the defining dungeon/landmark for the City of Greyhawk? THAT castle? Tell me that WoTC gives a damn about the opinion of their players after something like that....

I think that fan sites (such as this one) and the Living Greyhawk organization have done the best, most consistant work when it comes to GH writing. WoTC, if they were smart, would learn from those organizations. Find out what the fans/players want to see and use, then improve on that process. Instead, I think they're going to blow off what WE might want and go their own direction. I could respect that view if I thought that WoTC had a clue about just where they were heading. And that's where I start to worry...since I don't think WoTC has the ability to write/produce decent material on their own.
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