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    Canonfire :: View topic - Greyhawk no longer Core D&D world!
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- D&D 4th Edition
    Greyhawk no longer Core D&D world!
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    Forum Moderator

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    Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:17 pm  
    Greyhawk no longer Core D&D world!

    http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204357

    From the Wizards R&D seminar, posted by an attendee.

    "Greyhawk will not be default setting in core
    We want to leverage the assets of the assumed parts of a D&D world Mordenkainen, Bigby, Vecna, Llolth, Tiamat, Asmodeus, etc. However, we also want to call upon the great mythology that is more commonly known such as Thor, etc."


    also ominous:

    "Living Greyhawk will be coming to a triumphant close next year, and they will be starting fresh with a new batch of characters and players. This will be discussed tonight or tomorrow"
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    Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:24 pm  
    Re: Greyhawk no longer Core D&D world!

    mortellan wrote:
    http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204357

    From the Wizards R&D seminar, posted by an attendee.

    "Greyhawk will not be default setting in core
    We want to leverage the assets of the assumed parts of a D&D world Mordenkainen, Bigby, Vecna, Llolth, Tiamat, Asmodeus, etc. However, we also want to call upon the great mythology that is more commonly known such as Thor, etc."


    also ominous:

    "Living Greyhawk will be coming to a triumphant close next year, and they will be starting fresh with a new batch of characters and players. This will be discussed tonight or tomorrow"


    Not surprising. LG has never been popular with WoTC.
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    Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:25 pm  

    Agh I need to be flogged. One of the mods needs to put this thread in the 4E sticky thread above. Embarassed
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:42 pm  

    Ya know, it occurs to me that this might be a good thing. If WotC is leaving Greyhawk alone, then they can't screw it up anymore. And if they "leverage the assets" to the right company, there might be some good stuff ahead. Then again, if they leverage it to the wrong people, then Greyhawk is screwed.

    I just have to wonder if there's anything to the rumors that Paizo might be picking up the Greyhawk license...
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:53 am  

    Paizo run Greyhawk? I can live with that. The GH they've been doing with stuff like Core Beliefs and Demonomicon of Iggwilv has been generally good.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:51 am  

    Bubbagump:
    Where did you hear about rumors of WOTC picking up Greyhawk? If you indeed heard/read something like that I too would like to read it.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:44 am  

    Personally I wouldnt mind at all if Greyhawk is dropped from the 'core rules' and LG dries up.
    Im an avid Greyhawk fan. You dont need much more then the '83 boxed set. I much rather see new material from its die-hard fans then 'triads' attempting to push something out because they are obligated too....
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:54 am  

    Eileen:

    Rumors - mostly wishful thinking, I suspect - started floating around several chatrooms I frequent at almost the same time rumors of 4e started floating around.

    I'm pretty sure all those rumors were complete speculation. However, in hindsight I now realize that certain WotC people I've chatted with over the last year or two have (probably subconsciously) dropped hints about 4e, so I wonder if there might be a grain of truth behind certain GH comments I've picked up in other chats.

    Just for clarification and to avoid getting anyone's hopes up - I have read absolutely nothing that provides any positive indication that Paizo will pick up GH. I'm merely speculating about certain comments overheard in chatrooms.
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:32 am  

    Bubbagump:

    Thanks for gettingback to me on this, I appreciate it. As always, we will always try and remain optimistic about Greyhawk's future. Let me know if anything else surfaces.
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:21 am  

    bubbagump wrote:
    Ya know, it occurs to me that this might be a good thing. If WotC is leaving Greyhawk alone, then they can't screw it up anymore. And if they "leverage the assets" to the right company, there might be some good stuff ahead. Then again, if they leverage it to the wrong people, then Greyhawk is screwed.

    I just have to wonder if there's anything to the rumors that Paizo might be picking up the Greyhawk license...


    I agree. This way, there are no more alien invasions, no more Tenh being turned into an ash wasteland, no more radical roller-coaster changes, nothing like that.

    Who knows, maybe someone like Paizo would even hit the Reset button, rewind the timeline to 576 CY, and go back to the glory days of giving DMs the tools to let them craft their own campaigns, instead of taking the FR way of dictating changes externally through canon.

    That would be so, so, so sweet.
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:04 pm  

    That may very well be what will happen to Living Greyhawk. It's been announced they will end their campaign in a year and start over. The details of the starting over are still murky though.
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:30 pm  

    I've no idea if WotC will resume licensing its IP. It seems to have recalled all of it over the last year or so, which may be a deliberate policy change or just something they felt they should do prior to 4e. If they do reissue the licenses and include GH in that for the first time, Eric Mona has made it quite clear that he wants that license. That is no indication of whether WotC will actually issue the license, however.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:55 pm  

    I've asked repeatedly and recently. WotC is not currently interested in licensing out Greyhawk or any other setting to another company.

    They _do_ seem to be interested in supporting online Wiki-like support of all of their settings as part of their "digital initiative."

    Of course, Wikipedia itself has a fairly robust set of Greyhawk offerings available for free, so YMMV.

    --Erik
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:24 pm  

    And it's official, Living Greyhawk is ending.

    The campaign will wrap at Origins, and be replaced by Living Forgotten Realms at GenCon.

    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=908402
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:01 pm  

    iquander wrote:
    They _do_ seem to be interested in supporting online Wiki-like support of all of their settings as part of their "digital initiative."

    Of course, Wikipedia itself has a fairly robust set of Greyhawk offerings available for free, so YMMV.

    --Erik


    Hey, and don't forget that Rob "Robbastard" Vest is pretty much single-handedly giving Greyhawk its own wiki --

    http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:56 pm  

    Geez. Screw WotC's wiki idea. I'll gladly write for free to support CF or any other community whose faithfulness to GH I can count on. I have no problem supporting OJ, for example, or Rob Vest's wiki.

    Not that I think my designs are all that great, but under no circumstances am I going to put any effort into building up WotC's database just so they can steal my ideas someday in the future when they finally decide to appease the GH-loving masses by putting out another book.

    If they want any GH stuff from me, they can bloody well pay me for it.
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    Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:29 pm  

    Living Forgotten Realms! That's even worse than I had imagined for the LG folks. Man...I -knew- when that WotC release said 'new players' it meant new players not a reboot. GH is now officially done for Wizards. Unreal.
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    Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:50 am  

    You know it must have been killing them to have such a huge player base without any crossover setting books to sell to them.

    To be honest I am surprised they didn't try to kill it sooner.

    The problem that they are going to run into is that having tons of players in your campaign setting doesn't always equal lots of setting book sales. It's the DM that buys these books, and I don't think the RPGA has that many DM's who are so devoted that they will jump out and purchase brand new 4.0 setting books.

    I am glad that WotC seems to be taking a hands off approach with Greyhawk. I will be happy with the occasional "Return to" style of adventure.
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    Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:29 pm  

    At one of the 4e seminars I attended at Gencon, it was explicitly confirmed by Bill Slavisek and Rich Baker - GH will not be the default in 4E. There will be no 4e default.

    What there will be is a set of deities presented in the 4e PH to give examples for clerics. This list of deities will include some GH notables but will be mostly made up of figures from Greek and Norse mythology.

    Other than these mentions, the only other GH mentions in 4e will be the occasional GH notable who is tied into the D&D melieu. So, Mordy and Tenser in the spell names. Vecna because he has grown beyond GH and has appeared in Planescape and Ravenloft and has major artifacts named after him. Etc.

    It is safe to say GH is finally to be free of the default. And I for one welcome this with great enthusiasm. Happy
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    Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:00 pm  

    GVDammerung wrote:
    It is safe to say GH is finally to be free of the default. And I for one welcome this with great enthusiasm. Happy


    Hear, hear. I still cannot accept Hieroneous with a longsword.
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    Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:40 am  

    OleOneEye wrote:
    Hear, hear. I still cannot accept Hieroneous with a longsword.


    Me too. That's why when I created the Glory Warrior PrC (and 'published' here on CF) I included the Battle Axe.

    Hieroneous with a longsword my... Mad
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    Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:14 pm  

    iquander wrote:
    They _do_ seem to be interested in supporting online Wiki-like support of all of their settings as part of their "digital initiative."

    Of course, Wikipedia itself has a fairly robust set of Greyhawk offerings available for free, so YMMV.

    --Erik


    True, but that material is never safe from deletion, due to a number of Wikipedia editors who don't consider it "notable."

    Which is the main reason we now have a GH wiki on Canonfire!

    It currently has only 70-something pages, but I hope to eventually transfer all the GH material from Wikipedia: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/
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    Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:16 pm  

    smillan_31 wrote:
    iquander wrote:
    They _do_ seem to be interested in supporting online Wiki-like support of all of their settings as part of their "digital initiative."

    Of course, Wikipedia itself has a fairly robust set of Greyhawk offerings available for free, so YMMV.

    --Erik


    Hey, and don't forget that Rob "Robbastard" Vest is pretty much single-handedly giving Greyhawk its own wiki --

    http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


    Oops! I need to read further down the thread before posting--thanks for the support, fellas.

    Of course, this project would likely never happen were it not for GLH & Theocrat giving it a home.
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    Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:30 am  

    theres now a Greyhawk 4e WOTC messageboard so maybe that means that Greyhawk will get a hardback campaign sourcebook.

    Yeah!

    Mike
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    Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:21 am  

    Geez, I hope not! At least not until 5e or later. Still, I guess everyone needs a dream...
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    Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:49 am  

    Qstor wrote:
    theres now a Greyhawk 4e WOTC messageboard so maybe that means that Greyhawk will get a hardback campaign sourcebook.

    Yeah!

    Mike


    "Yeah?" Really? I don't think one follows from the other. Particular as we have not seen how well 4e does generally, and wih specific reference to FR (getting a MAJOR and controversial overhaul).

    What's more, do we want a 4e GH where Grazzt and his kid Iuz are mindless damage doers because that's what demons are in 4e? I'm thinking there is room for more than a little caution here.
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    Wed May 21, 2008 2:01 am  

    I seriously hope they don't drop Greyhawk. I'm a hardcore fan of the setting. I've played in every setting but GH has stuck with me the most, even over my own Embarassed

    I fear that if WotC drops GH it will become a relic. The only GH games I'll be able to enjoy are the ones I'm running. I've sold many Chicago & San Diego players on GH but then I moved. Now it's time for Sacramento. But the more WotC refuses to support it, the harder it gets.

    I haven't played in a GH campaign since I was in the Marines. The rest of the time I'm running the campaigns I'd like to be in Sad

    I feel that dropping the Setting is a Death Knell like it was in 2nd Ed.


    Last edited by AtomicPope on Wed May 21, 2008 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Wed May 21, 2008 2:36 am  

    Atomic Pope wrote:
    Quote:
    I fear that if WotC drops GH it will become a relic.


    The latest word on Greyhawk and WOTC is that it will receive support. WOTC has yet to specificy what that support will be. Each year WOTC will put out a new D&D world, though the amount of support each will receive is likely to be reduced compared to previous years. This year they have stated it will be Forgotten Realms and next year will be Eberron. They have yet to make a formal announcement of the 3rd or 4th year of 4th edition. There is a reasonably good chance that Greyhawk will be the likely 3rd year campaign put out.

    Apparently they are developing a Players Guide, a World book, and module (s) to go with each world. If they follow this format, it is what we are likely to see as well, providing they are well received with the first two campaign worlds mentioned above. WOTC has been rumored to say that they are considering greater support but I cannot state that as a fact for I haven't read it myself.

    It is extremely likely that some Greyhawk will show up on the Digital Initiative website of WOTC. I would start looking here when they are fully up and running. WOTC did say they would put up the half-orc there.

    If you are interested in 4th edition this should be good news to you and any sources they put out on Greyhawk should be of value to you. If your sticking with a previous edition of Greyhawk, it is kinda a wait and see how well it works sort of thing. Either way, we all want to see Greyhawk continue, whether it be through WOTC, another company, or fanbase material. Hope you find what your looking for.
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    Wed May 21, 2008 7:16 am  

    I'm keenest to see something along the lines of the Places of Mystery articles that have been posted on WotC linked to the LG.

    I'd love to see some of the locations that featured in some of the LG modules gven a bit of historical treatment like the ruins of Steffenmoor, the Storm King's Keep, etc.

    Otherwise stat blocks and background for some of the major settlements would be cool.

    I think the problem with re-releasing stuff in 4e format is that they have to move the timeline forward otherwise the information is stale and largely identical to what was in the 3e version. Hopefully they won't change things too drastically though.
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