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    Canonfire :: View topic - Greyhawk at the "4thEdition Campaign Setting" foru
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    From: Montevideo, Minnesota, US

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    Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:44 pm  

    Interesting idea Bubba, thanks for the explanation. I too would like to see Greyhawk go back to closer to the old days. Cerbrion offered the idea of actually backing up the timeline to approx. 550 CY, what do you think about that idea? Better? Worse? I found the idea posted on the WOTC site.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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    From: Neck Deep in the Viscounty of Verbobonc

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    Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:50 pm  

    In terms of the feel of the setting and such, I like the idea of moving things back half-a-century or two. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll work.

    In order for this to be workable, everything written would have to be designed to accommodate what every Greyhawker knows is going to happen. Yes, there are lots of events in Greyhawk's history that would be fun to play out, but since they'll all have to reach a predetermined conclusion it would be like a severe case of railroading on a worldwide scale. At least in the current era players have the illusion that their actions could change the world.

    Of course, moving the setting forward in time has its own set of problems. Doing so would mean the end of many well-beloved iconic characters and concepts. There would be considerable difficulty in getting many old-school Greyhawkers to accept the changes. It's also amazingly difficult to capture the feel of an old publication in the pages of a new one. Furthermore, a revamp of the setting would tend to attract a fair number of new players who would expect to have the same input that Greyhawkers currently have - and Greyhawkers are notoriously opposed to the new attitudes and philosophy that come with adding younger gamers (just check any 4e forum if you don't believe me).

    I hate to admit it, but perhaps 4e, with its decreased rate of progression and simplified definitions, might just be what Greyhawk needs. Assuming any future revamp doesn't use a lot of overly-contrived and illogical designs to explain the changes (worldwide magical cataclysms, wars among the gods, etc., that bring about lots of unwanted paradigms), a new GH moved a few centuries into the future could be a real shot in the arm. It would be a fiendishly hard sell, but if done with enough respect and consideration for the setting and its history, it could work.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 13, 2006
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    From: Frinton on Sea England

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    Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:40 am  

    That's quite a compelling set of plans there, bubba. I still hope I'm not going to have to change things that drastically, but if I do then that's the best set of options I've heard so far.

    It all swings on one thing, though; who's the author of the hardbacks/gazeteers? That would be a crucial factor for me.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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    Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:06 am  

    EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
    GVD what sort of ideas do you have for a roboot? I'm interested in hearing what you have in mind (curious).


    Link - http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2780
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    GVD
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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    From: Neck Deep in the Viscounty of Verbobonc

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    Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 am  

    Ragr wrote:
    It all swings on one thing, though; who's the author of the hardbacks/gazeteers? That would be a crucial factor for me.


    Well, WotC will probably want to put some young punks who never even played the Village of Hommlet on the job, but if I had my druthers...

    My team, I think, might include Sam Weiss, Rick Miller, Erik Mona, Rob Kuntz, and of course, myself. The team should include some folks who at least give a damn about the setting, don't you think?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    From: Montevideo, Minnesota, US

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    Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:06 pm  

    Bubba
    What do you think of the idea of setting up a poll or similar concept in order to help decide what people would or wouldn't change. Store the data for the future, ya never know what's going to happen.

    Of coarse if you asked most people on Canonfire if they would like to be on the design team I am sure they would say yes. But one would need an overall "final decision team".
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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    Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:00 pm  

    Indeed, I think it would be interesting to have a poll about who should be on the team. I also think it would be interesting to see a poll about whether the reboot should be to 576, earlier, later, or entirely "other".

    Of course you realize that any such poll's results would be merely academic. Odds are WotC wouldn't pay any attention. I also doubt there are any on these boards or elsewhere who'd be willing to put in the requisite hours to do a complete reboot without pay. Who's got the time?

    I sure would love to take a stab at it, though.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    From: Montevideo, Minnesota, US

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    Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:14 pm  

    In todays world achieving a project such as this (even if the writers kept the re-boot book to themselves, essentially homemade book) it would have to be done by a series of writers, like WOTC does. I'm not normally all for this idea, but the reality is that each person is assigned a section and eventually it is passed on to the committee for review. Of coarse copyright laws become an issue.

    For my home Top Secret/S.I. camapign I have turned a 96 page players guide into a smaller print sized (approx.) 180 page book. Basically doubled it. I did similar works with the Administrators Guide and G4: File. I still work full time and game as well. Sleeping and eating are my other commitments. My point is that committed people can do it and if working together in a well organized manner, it can succeed.

    Even without WOTC, it's home brew so it might be legal (note sure). No selling, no contributions, etc. are involved. Where there is a will, there is a way.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    From: Frinton on Sea England

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    Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:49 am  

    That sounds like a great team, bubba. All you now need to do is hold your breath and wait for that call from Wotc.

    Are you turning blue yet?

    You'd better gulp down that air, the young punks have it.
    Master Greytalker

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    From: Frinton on Sea England

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    Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:54 am  

    I'm no lawyer, and coming from England have absolutely no idea as to how things work legally over your side of the great pond, but is there absolutely no chance of anybody wrenching the rights to Greyhawk from Wotc's grasp?

    Has anybody ever tried?

    I think I can guess the answer but its nice to have your suspicions confirmed.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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    Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:37 am  

    I understand that Eric Mona has tried several times. At least that's what I read. Clearly a no go if he did make such a request.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:36 pm  

    Yes, Erik tried a number of times. Also, Gygax did his best back in the day. There's no way to wrest control of GH away from WotC without buying the company.

    But that doesn't mean it's out of our hands. Remember that no one can tell you how to run your game. Even if WotC does someday come out with a load of crap and decide to call it "Greyhawk" none of us on these boards have to use it.
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