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    Canonfire :: View topic - Pelor...God of Agriculture?, Bahamut...typical human deity
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- D&D 4th Edition
    Pelor...God of Agriculture?, Bahamut...typical human deity
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    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:37 am  
    Pelor...God of Agriculture?, Bahamut...typical human deity

    Another WOTC article, this particular one comes from Dungeon and is written by James Wyatt. In it he describes how to start a campaign for 4th edition, with the idea of starting small and working outward. I posted part of it here because I thought that his take on Greyhawk deities was interesting to say the least. Eariler in the article he states that the village is mostly human (but not all). So here it is....

    Quote:
    Heart of the Village
    I don't really need a map of Greenbrier -- the simple idea of a village grown up around a crossroads will do fine for now. A wooden palisade stands around the center of town, offering feeble protection against the encroaching wild.

    There's a common house in the middle of town -- it serves as the classic D&D tavern, sure, but it's also where the villagers gather for meetings to handle the sorts of things a town council would handle in a larger settlement.

    The temple is the other main gathering place, where people come together to celebrate and mourn the many passages of life. I'll need to give some thought to the temple and the religious life of the village.

    Turning to another chapter in the Player's Handbook, I run down the list of gods. I don't get very far before Bahamut's portfolio jumps out at me: He's the god of justice, protection, and honor. These people fear the encroaching darkness, so it seems natural to me that they would pray to Bahamut for protection. I'll say that Bahamut's altar occupies center stage, as it were, in the temple.

    That needn't be the end of it, though. In any polytheistic religion, people offer prayers and make sacrifices to different gods for different occasions. As the sun god, Pelor is an important god of agriculture. He'll get a shrine in one wing of the temple. In better days, he was more important than Bahamut in Greenbrier. In fact, there might still be townsfolk who resent the priests of Bahamut for usurping Pelor's place in the center of the temple.

    And all this time I though Bahamut was a dragon deity and Pelor was the god of the sun, light, strength, and healing.....boy is my campaign screwed up, I guess I have been doing it wrong all this time. Bummer! Well at least Pelor is stated as still being a god of the sun. The rest of it...well I don't know.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:49 am  

    You are doing things just fine. This is just one person's interpretation of things.

    I've always seen Pelor as having a minor agricultural significance as well, but that is not much of a leap. I also see Pelor as a virile god of Strength, who is achampion of light a well, and foe of darkness and the undead(as the sun is inimical to both of those things). Bahamut is a dragon deity, though a very small percentage of non-dragons worhsip him as well. I don't see any reason for this to alter what you want to do, or altering what anybody else would want to do.
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    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:01 am  

    I can see the relation from sun god to agriculture especially when you remove a lot of other gods, not a stretch of the imagination. I thought it was odd that the article made no reference to Bahamut being a dragon god. The other thing that struck me as odd was that the temple in the article was of Bahamut but Pelor, Moradin and Kord all had worship locations in it as well. This puts four seemingly unrelated gods in one temple. It also stated that before Bahamut came along that Pelor was the main god, so now there is some animostity between the clerics. Four gods, four sets of clerics, two types which don't get along very well according to the campaign the auther was putting together, all in one temple. Seemed odd to me.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:48 am  

    You know, I get the distinct feeling that part of the brief for these article writers is to see how much they can irritate old time players. This one is just another "emperor's new clothes" bunch of fluff.

    Granted, in a divergant campaign setting Bahamut could be worshipped by ordinary villagers but, as a core concept, it's unlikely. It was Wotc who decided that Greyhawk was no longer the core setting and that Living Greyhawk should end, but there seems to be no problem with continuing to use GH specific deities in 4e. What's the matter guys, not imaginative enough to come up with a new pantheon?

    I've said it before in another thread, if Wotc concentrate on rules and mechanics then I'm sure they will come up with some usable products but their background fluff for 4e just gets poorer with each bulletin.

    Wotc's policy on campaign flavour seems to be "if it ain't broke, knock it down and rebuild anyway, because we can".

    I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to even think about this kind of drivel in a constructive way.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:27 pm  

    Bahamut's an odd choice... I wonder if he's hinting at something in the future of his campaign (those dastardly and cunning dragons!). I hope he didn't just thumb through the domains, looking for the right ones... I thought only munchkins did that.

    But Pelor as an agricultural deity sounds about right; the sun had a very prominent place in most pre-Christian faiths (if I'm remembering my college classes correctly).

    The conflict between a naturalistic deity and a legalistic deity would be fertile ground for plot hooks, IMHO. Especially if the latter is imposed from one's rulers...
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:55 pm  

    Here is why, from Digital Dragon:
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071029&authentic=true
    You will need a login. For those who refuse to login, here it is:

    Dragon: Design & Development wrote:
    The family of gods for 4th Edition is a mix of old and new. You'll see familiar faces like Corellon, Moradin, and Pelor, and some new faces as well, like Zehir, Torog, and Bane.

    Yes, Bane.

    Before I explain what the Forgotten Realms' god of tyranny and war is doing rubbing shoulders with Pelor, let me say a bit about our thinking when we created a pantheon in the first place.

    There was a time when the team working on "the world" of D&D thought we could get away with creating general rules useful to clerics regardless of which pantheon existed in the campaign, and then presenting a variety of fictional and historical pantheons for DMs to adopt or adapt as they saw fit. I believe it was Stacy Longstreet, the senior D&D art director, who pointed out that this solution would leave us in a bit of a bind.

    When we wanted to put a temple in an adventure, what god would it be dedicated to? We could make Generic Evil Temples™, but that would sap a lot of the flavor out of our adventures, and rob us of specific plot hooks and story lines based on the portfolios and histories of these gods.

    When we wanted to illustrate a cleric in one of our books, what holy symbol would the cleric hold? Again, we could rely on a stable of generic symbols (maybe the Zapf Dingbat font?), but at the cost of a lot of flavor.

    We ended up creating a new pantheon. At first, we used some of the gods from 3rd Edition as placeholder names -- we thought we'd come up with new names for [Pelor] the sun god and [Moradin] the god of the forge. Ultimately we decided that using some familiar faces was preferable to giving our players a whole new set of names to learn. Besides, if a god looks like an elf and took out the orc-god's eye like a certain well-known elf god, why not call him Corellon?

    Corellon: The elf god is a good example of a god who kept his well-earned place in the D&D pantheon. But "the elf god" shouldn't be taken to literally. Sure, he's often depicted as an elf or an eladrin, and many eladrin in particular revere him. But he's equally popular among human wizards, and even dwarves who practice the finer arts are prone to offering him prayers. One of our goals with the new pantheon was to loosen the tight associations between gods and races that has in the past led to the creation of whole pantheons full of elf, dwarf, orc, and goblin deities. Corellon is still associated with elfy things like arcane magic and the Feywild, and he still hates Lolth and the drow. But his appeal is a little broader now.

    Bahamut: Here's another example of a familiar, draconic face showing up in a somewhat new light. Maybe it was the Platinum Knight prestige class in Draconomicon that did it, but something convinced me a long time ago that Bahamut was a much cooler god of paladins than Heironeous ever was. Like Corellon, Bahamut's not just for dragons any more. He's the god of justice, protection, and honor, and many paladins of all races worship him. Many metallic dragons revere him as well, thinking of him as the first of their kind. Some legends about Bahamut describe him as literally a shining platinum dragon, while others describe him as a more anthropomorphic deity, who's called the Platinum Dragon as a title of respect. Exhorting his followers to protect the weak, liberate the oppressed, and defend just order, Bahamut stands as the exemplar of the paladin's ideal.

    Bane: Here's another god whose placeholder name just stuck, despite some reservations. We wanted an evil war god in the pantheon, and without Heironeous, Hextor didn't make a lot of sense. We wanted the kind of heavily militaristic god whose temples you might find among non-evil societies who have spent long years at war, as well as among hobgoblins. We wanted a god who embodied just the sort of tyrannical dictatorship that Bane stands for in the Forgotten Realms. We started calling him Bane as a placeholder. He went through a number of different, unsatisfying names. Finally, someone said we should just call him Bane. So Bane he remained.

    Like chocolate and peanut butter, we think Bane and Bahamut are two great tastes that taste great together. Does that mean you have to use them in your 4th Edition game? Of course not. But we think that, when you see these gods in action in our core books and adventures, you'll agree that they belong in their new places of honor in the pantheon of the D&D game.


    Basically they are going to pull deities from different sources for "core" D&D.

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    Bryan Blumklotz
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    Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:37 am  

    Not surprising that they took this approach, disapointing though. To much change for my taste. Part of the enjoyment for me was the familiarity, being resonably well versed in a subject matter. I enjoyed the fact that various Greyhawk factors are just that, for Greyhawk; just as aspects of the Forgotten Realms belong in that world; Oriental monsters and deities belong there; not mixing and matching and crossing over. To much of a loss of individuality for me. I also didn't care for the broadening of deity worshipers to include other races. I can see some blend, such as Hextor and hobgoblins, but not to far beyond that.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:45 am  

    What I don't get is, if they want a generic world divorced from all campaign settings, why don't they just make up some new gods to fit their needs, rather than just strip mining several settings for dieties and then warping them to fit divergent roles?

    And when they do get round to publishing campaign settings, won't they run the risk of confusing some players with difference betwen the generic and original versions?
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:57 am  

    So. let me get this straight. If I cobble together bits and pieces of information from various sources and then lump it all together I can justifiably label it "new".

    To (mis)quote The Who, "meet the new dross, same as the old dross".

    This is certainly confusing for all. Old players need none of this; their existing campaigns probably have all the dieties needed, with existing relationships and conflicts. Initially new players might find it useful; but what happens when they decide to go beyond the adventure to adventure format and want to have a campaign? If they go for an existing setting they're in for one hell of a surprise. Or maybe that's part of the plan. Keep the newbies away from the nasty old dinosaur settings and their crusty relic players.

    As for Heironeous not being cool enough; well, my friend, you must have a serious lack of imagination. Bahamut as a sticking plaster for your (Wotc's) agenda? Good luck with that!

    And as for "Elfy things". Who are these people?
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:59 pm  

    Ragr wrote:
    So. let me get this straight. If I cobble together bits and pieces of information from various sources and then lump it all together I can justifiably label it "new".

    To (mis)quote The Who, "meet the new dross, same as the old dross".


    Seems like. Confused
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    GVD
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    Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:46 pm  

    Guess they are teaching is old folks tricks of the trade!
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:34 am  

    I was digging thru the community pile of D&D mini(atures for Eileen) and found a knightly looking Human Cleric of Bahamut figure (2007). Slipped by me at first, now it makes sense after this article. Man I hate those minis.
    Master Greytalker

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    Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:15 am  

    Mortellan:

    If we go back to calling them miniatures, all of our problems will go away in life. Every life related difficulty can be traced back to calling miniatures (minis). I also have it on good authority that if we do this, that WOTC will happily reimburse us twice over, for all of our previous edition D&D purchases as well as free lifelong upgrade to 4th edition. If we don't want that they will continue the 3.5 line and reimburse us three times over for our undo stress. See....life is better with miniatures.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:58 am  

    The scene; a Wotc meeting room, a bunch of company exec's and game designers gathered round a table. The big chief rises and declares "we are no longer the company that say minis. We are now the company that say....." Ah, you can guess the rest.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:38 am  

    Ragr:

    A non-serious post.

    Getting a bit off topic but....saw that movie back in high school (have it on DVD now). At the time we (my D&D group and I) saw it, they decided to have a moment of humor and expand a very rare wish and turn themselves into the Knights of Neee. Naturally, when they said "Neee" everyone fled or cowered in fear. Never used it in a serious way, but I sure hated it at the time. Way to many doritos and mountain dew for these guys.

    Do you think that somehow WOTC will secretly do something like this with our 3.5 books. Once 4th edition hits the shelf we will all run in fear from our currently played edition? Hmmm.....seems like good marketing strategy. Open the book to play and run in fear. Then magically feel compelled to buy the latest edition. They did after all enlist Tharizdun for 4th edition and he is the God of Destruction. Maybe they have a contract with him to destroy our 3rd edition.

    My Divination abilities reveal that WOTC are the one's that started the "Mini's term". I see them slowly using such means to take over the world. By 7th edition we will all be mindless subjects of WOTC. They have after all, infilitrated Hasbro, what is probably the largest toy retailer in the world. They have expanded to countless countries worldwide and now they are entering the computer business in order to expand their empire and reach further and further into the youths of today, the adults of tomorrow. I foree see an eventual outcome like the movie Red Dawn. I keep looking out my window to see if they are parachuting or teleporting in with raised fireballs and magic missle spells.

    In a similar moment my gaming group of high school got hooked on the movie Back to the Future. Huey Louis sang the title song to that film and everyone was a fan. In the movie when the car reaches a speed of 88 mph, it became a time machine. Much to my regret, they had another humor moment and decided that anytime they rolled 88 on percentile, that Huey Louis and the News showed up and played a couple of songs, then left. Unless I said it happened, they wouldn't go back to playing.

    Funny, but moments I'd like to forget.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 am  

    I'm certainly running in fear every time a new article on 4e goes up over at the Wotc site. Or, more accurately, my will to live is. So, with all the available evidence, I can safely "out" the writers of 4e as being the Knights of Ni reborn (Nee? Can't remember the correct spelling. Agggh! Can't rest until I find out). Now there's an idea, a 300 page hardcover called "Return To The Knights of Ni". Cynical, moi?

    As for Huey Lewis turning up; you must have been running Ravenloft, 'cause that would scare the hell out of me. If you play with the same guys now you should have a rule where you actually have to listen to a Huey Lewis song whenever one of them rolls 88. Or, alternatively, on any successful save they make. Don't mess with DM's. We do remember and there will be a reckoning.

    Now, where's that dvd? Ni or Nee. I shall not sleep.
    Master Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:35 am  

    I told you, the DVD's at my house. I never did check the spelling so it quite possibly could be the Knights of Ni. I only play about once or twice a year with one of them now. The rest have moved on. We do have this house rule which we call "Rolling for Music". Each character has a theme song. We roll d20 to see who gets to pick out the music for the night chooing from specific categories, such as 80's, soudtracks, and Kim Wilde. I actually have 2 D&D soundtracks, one of which references Greyhawk. If you roll a 20, you get to play your theme song while we set up the gaming room. My song is "Come On Eileen" by Dexy's Midnight Runners.

    Maybe what I should have done is had the characters play with Huey Louis and the News and while they played, they attracted random encounters. Of coarse they would have been surprised since they were busy playing aweful music (none of them were a bard). Give the monsters a +5 to hit for being aggreivated by the terrible music they characters played.
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:51 am  

    The image of the Prophet of Istus entering the temple to the tune of Come On Eileen is more than slightly surreal. Good fun, though.

    One question. Who on Oerth uses a Kim Wilde song for a theme tune?

    Makes Huey Lewis look like the patron deity of bards.
    Master Greytalker

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    Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:00 am  

    Again, a completely non-serious post!

    Ok Ragr, I'm calling you out. City of Greyhawk, Free City Arena, Sunsebb 1, 2:00. I'll bring my champion, Ariel Champion of Heironeous, you bring yourself (if you dare), or whatever kobold that keeps you as a pet. I'll understand if you don't show up, fear the wrath of Istus. Your fate is not good. Make your peace with whatever deity you claim to serve.

    I listen to Kim Wilde, have since 1981. I started playing D&D in the early 80's and so I listened to a lot of her, still do. Some of my best games of old had her music in the background. Oh, at least I HAVE a theme song? What's yours? Oh, don't have one, hmmmm. Perhaps you will get one for Christmas this year. The paladin has a theme song as well.....Another one bites the dust, sure your up to the challenge now?

    So the idea of playing Come on Eileen is silly huh. Hey, it will become my 4th edition powersource (if I ever play, NOT!).

    It appears that you are from England, always wanted to go there and visit. By the way, Come on Eileen is not a Kim Wilde song it is Dexy's Midnight Runners, what did you do, miss your Knowledge check? She is after all from England as well. I take it your not a fan? Forgivable but my heart is saddened.

    And as far as Huey Louis and the news being the god of bards well....have you ever heard the song I've want a new drug......so maybe.....he's elevated to godhood.

    Ariel can't wait to kick your backend!
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:40 am  

    Ha! Ragr laughs at your feeble challenge, as he sits in his Hobbit hole beside a warm fire counting mushrooms. What sort of crazy fool would be out in this weather waving cold metal around? Paladins? Ha! I've robbed 'em for breakfast.

    By the way, I don't need no stinking theme tune. Totally ruins your Move Silently.

    Which gods do I serve? Whichever one pays the most.

    Having said that, I did say surreal and not silly. And, you know, as tough as I am, it doesn't pay to offend prophets. So you carry on and boogie away in 80's wonderland (like grunge never happened). I did know it was Dexy's and not the Wilde (mild) child, it was a translation error. Being a Halfling (and not at all nomadic, living in a wagon and all that Wotc nonsense) it's difficult typing when the keys are so huge.

    Anyway, I promise to chuck a copper piece in the collection box at the next temple of Istus I, er......visit, that's the word. And while you're waiting in the arena I'm assuming there's nobody at home. Interesting.

    By the way, I've forgotten what the subject of this thread was.
    Master Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:44 am  

    Your going to need those mushrooms in order to avoid feeling any pain the paladin plans on dishing out, that is unless your admitting error and defeat. I haven't left the temple yet either, since the duel is a few days away. If your not planning on meeting us I think I'll enjoy another slice of roasted duck here at the temple. However, in an effort to solve this dilema in a diplomatic manner, I offer, free of charge, an atonement spell for your past deeds of unlawful acquistions.

    I think a theme song would be appropriate for you, we could just turn down the volume a bit in order to not interfere with your stealth, or perhaps you could wear headphones. Nobody will hear you coming.

    It's nice to hear that you have converted to Istus. You said you worship whichever god pays the most. Clearly, your future and eventual fate is worth the most. I suppose I could put in a good word for you if you'd like?

    My bad, I misinterpreted the word "surreal".

    I can understand the difficulty of typing when the keys are large for your fingers, as nimble as I'm sure they are. Perhaps we could put big gloves on to make it easier for you.

    The subject of the thread was how they are incorporating and changing Greyhawk deities into 4th edition. As far as I can see, our conversation has been 100% relavent to that discussion. We have after all, been discussing religions (Istus and Heironeous). So far I haven't heard anything about Istus being drawn into the 4th edition mix (let's pray it doesn't happen). If it does, I will be looking for a good rogue to sneak into their headquarters and acquire or alter their well laid plans in an effort to stop this injustice. Know of any that are up to the challenge?
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:09 am  

    Ah! A job. What's the pay? And don't give me any of that it's good for the soul nonsense. Actually, if it involves messing with the High Tower of Wotc, Ragr may well be up to a bit of pro bono Roguery.

    Atonement? Ragr only regrets the things he hasn't done.

    If I have a theme tune and wear headphones I'm just going to end up like one of those annoying commuters you get on buses and trains. If I was to choose one, however, it would have to be Peter Gabriel's "Intruder".

    I will join you in prayer, if you don't mind a godless heathen beside you that is, in wishing that the Lords of the Ivory Tower have the good grace to leave Istus, and as many of the other Greyhawk deities as possible, out of their 4e fluff.

    With your reputation and wisdom, Eileen, you must know a mage who can design me a set of Gloves of Typing? They'll be well rewarded.

    Or not.
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    Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:44 am  

    The job pays well indeed. Think of all of RPG industrial secrets you will access and can slowly sell off in order to insure your place in Greyhawk history. They abandonded Greyhawk, so we (you) infiltrate them. Seems like a middle of the road neutral response (oops, I'm lawful too, darn, now what?).

    Oooh, Oooh, I know! I bet if we influence the Oligarchy of Greyhawk City they will agree that such an effort could indeed save the World of Greyhawk. What greater, more noble cause could there be?

    Since you have yet to lay low their imperial tower of evil I guess you must regret it. Cleanse the soul, do what you must. The Gods of Greyhawk support your efforts and hereby grant this quest. They are all concerned that they will get drawn into this 4th edition mess and want no part of it as well (except Tharizdun, he's all for destroying Greyhawk anyway).

    I hear bards are already writing songs about you. Of coarse these songs take into consideration that you will succeed while others assume you will fail. Hey, maybe if you succeed a future Greyhawker will use one of these as their theme song. Wouldn't you like to be a theme song for some upcoming great rogue? I guess if you do we would have to make a new Rogues Gallery.

    We could put you on a communter train with the headphones but if I'm not mistaken, won't someone think your from Ebberon?

    Glove of Typing, hmmm. As I look into my background I do know a certain mage who use to frequent the Greyhawk area quite a bit when he was younger. Seems to me he associated himself with someone named Gary. On the Day of the Great Signing in Greyhawk City I got a little to close to the fireworks (so to speak) and he pulled me aside in a nick of time. Coarse I was just a kid at the time. I'll see what I can do.

    This post will self destruct in 5 seconds. Ooops, wrong game!
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    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:41 pm  

    That must've been the silliest exchange I've ever seen on these forums. Please, carry on.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:16 am  

    Ok Mortellan, you just made me laugh. And honestly, that doesn't happen near as much as I wished it would. Thanks!
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    Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:06 pm  

    Now that's just totally unfair. I get misquoted using the word "silly", when I actually said surreal, and suddenly I'm public enemy number one with the faithful of Istus. Mort calls the entire exchange silly and he gets thanks. It's because I'm small isn't it. Well, I've had just enough of this. I've been threatened with Paladins; been told that I need an Atonement, and mentioned in the same sentence as, gasp, Eberron. Why don't you just go the whole hog and tell me that I was born in the Forgotten Realms. I've never been so insulted since the time I was asked (told) to join that annoying guild in The Free City.

    Well, I'm going to break into that tower. And I'm going to steal all their secrets and, what's more, I'm not going to tell any of youse lot what I find.

    Unless I'm threatened with something really painful.

    Whereupon, I might negotiate.
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    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:26 pm  

    Now....Now....Ragr, it isn't that bad. I apologized for misunderstanding you...see my daddy's money didn't buy that great of an education. I'd hardly call you public enemy #1, you and I both know who that really is. By the way, I'm am glad to hear that you have accepted this quest. Will you be doing it alone or will you be in need of 7 other companions? Please be careful upon entering the infamous tower however, I hear that they have 4.5 edition robotic guards patrolling the hallways. Now I understand your upset...but really withholding information from your fellow Greyhawkers....that's just not right. What if you discover that Greyhawk City is next to vanish...you wouldn't tell us?

    I'm sorry to hear that you feel inadequate over your size. I'm sure with therapy you can overcome your shortcomings. Would you like me to schedule an appointment with the Guild of Adventure Inadequacies, I believe they have an office in Clerkburg, on University Street in Greyhawk City.

    I don't think it is really accurate to say that you were threatened by paladins, it was after all just one, and it wasn't really a threat at all. Maybe she just wanted to get her hands all over you. As far as that Atonement thing, well there must be something your feeling guilty about. Perhaps that "size issue" is manifesting because of some deeply buried guilt your holding inside.

    You weren't really born in the Forgotten Realms were you? Gosh, I had no idea, I'm sorry....more therapy? I thought you'd appreciate the Ebberon comment. After all, throw some headphones on, listen to your theme song on their lightning commuter train thingy and nobody would suspect that your actually a master rogue from Greyhawk. I noticed you dropped a name....thieve's guild...hmmm.... your not thinking about shaking down my temple now are you?

    I thanked Mort because he sent me that wonderful map a while back. By the way Mort, I followed your map and I couldn't find a single 5 star inn along the way. Some travel agent you turned out to be. I didn't realize I was getting the economy travel package deal. Next time let's upgrade to 1st class ok?

    You guys are to funny!
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:08 am  

    Work with a group of adventurers? Normally I'd have no qualms about working with others but lately I've noticed an alarming trend amongst adventurers; absolutely no sense of humour. The last mob I worked with tried to lynch me. My crime? Taking treasure on a "the amount of work done" basis. Without me they would still be outside. How do you halt a company of adventurers dead in their tracks? Put a mysterious door in front of them. Or, any door. So, thanks for the offer, Eileen, but I like my collar size as it is.

    4.5 robots? Bring it on. Bring on 10e for all I care. I've made it all the way from 1st and have the yellow character sheet to prove it. With lots of holes in from all the rubbing out I've had to do.

    You don't really think I'd hold out on you, do you? Greyhawkers, fear not.
    The secrets of the Tower of Self Importance shall be broadcast from the top of the Wizard's Guild as soon as I've pilfered them. And managed to find a way to the top of the Guildhall. Without being toasted by that Jalfrezi woman. Hmnn! Starting to get hungry.

    Your Paladin wants to get her grubby mitts on me? You know, once she's been turned to the dark side there's no way back into Heironeous' good books. Me like!

    Eberron sounds horrible. Hell on Oerth. Or Forgotten Realms as it's called around here.

    Must eat.......Fading away........Bring curry now.....
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:32 am  

    You know, there is 6 hour time differance between us and I'm am still up posting here. I think I have a compulsive disorder. If you've really been around since 1st edition you should go back to Web Comic and check out my dragon analysis.

    Again, I'm suppose to be impressed?

    We know you wouldn't hold out on fellow Greyhawkers. You just like to talk tough.

    Since your uncertain how to find your way to the top of the Wizard's Guildhall, let me help you.

    Get a copy of the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, turn to page 89 and start reading. It will tell you exactly how to do it. Jeez....and I'm not even a rogue and I figured that out.

    So do you want to find out what the paladin looks like? If you do I can try and set it up for you. really I can. She's attractive, I think you'd like her.
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:06 am  

    I've got that supplement on my shelf gathering dust waiting to be read. Page 89 eh! Suckers.

    Your Paladin is beginning to sound a little scary. I think I'll pass.

    What do you mean by web comic? I'm obviously getting a little slow in my dotage.

    It's done, then. When page 89 is read, Ragr is going in. Beware, pen-pushing game designing types, the 'hawkers have a fearsome champion, and he brings upon you the fury that is stinging criticism. And what's more, he brings it direct to your lair, in the guise of a Halfling. 37lbs of pure vitriol and venomous contempt for your game tinkering ways.

    I just have to finish this sandwich.
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:27 am  

    So you getting old are you? Webcomic 3.0, the other thread we have beeen bantering on. Actually the paladin is pretty nice, I wasn't even being sarcastic when I offered to introduce you or when I said she was attractive, although she is quite a bit taller than you.

    So what kind of sandwich are you eating?

    In celebration of your finally getting off the tree and doing something, I came up with a little cheer for you.

    Who's the halfling with all the stealth....
    Ragr...Ragr....
    Who's the rogue with all your wealth?
    Ragr....Ragr....
    Who's the thief who will rob you blind....
    Ragr...Ragr....
    Who's the cutpurse you will never find....
    Ragr....Ragr...
    Who's that sneak who will always walk?
    Ragr....Ragr...
    Who's that burglar who will save the hawk?
    Ragr...Ragr...
    Yay.....Ragr.
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:02 pm  

    Roll over Beethoven, that tune is awesome. I can't get it out of my head. Even if it wasn't about me it would still be pretty cool.

    Have the Paladin say a prayer and smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast. (And if you know where I stole that line from I'll be impressed)

    It's toasted cheese with red peppers and chives. Er....The sandwich that is.

    Oh, Mort's webcomic thread. Doh!
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 pm  

    Sorry, once again I'm afraid I will have to disappoint you. I have no idea where you stole that line from. My bad. Somehow I don't think it was one of the hymns I learned at the church of Istus. Most regretfully, I have other duties to attend to so I shall be back for more witicisms later.

    Cheers!
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    Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:33 pm  

    The less people know about where I steal lines from the better it is. I've had folks, er, quietened for less. That way I get to sound even more witty and charming than usual.

    Enjoy your rituals.
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    Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:34 pm  

    So Ragr...how did it go. I see your back since you found time to start a new thread. Apparently you finished your sandwich, got off your tree or dead dragon or whatever it really was, infiltrated the Unsurmountable Tower of continous editions and made it back out.

    So did you use the official method presented on page 89 or did you improvise. I hope that the wizards don't have a copy of the Exp. book because if they do I'm guessing it was a lot more difficult that you expected.

    So what horrible traps, monsters, and spells did you encounter? Did you find the 4th edtion manuscript? Did you steal it, alter it, replace it with your own? Come on, we need to know. Lets here a factual account of your adventure!
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    Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 am  

    Turbulent Prophet, quit yer yakking. Can't you see I'm trying to lurk quietly? Do you always want things done this quickly. An operation like this takes planning. There are tools to polish, weapons to sharpen, life insurance policies to update (you want raising with that, sir). Some of us can't just see the future, you know, we have to live it and take our chances.

    So, farewell my lovely tree, er, Dragon. I'm set fair for the Tower of Inescapable Profit. Pray for me 'hawkers.
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    Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:13 am  

    Ummm.....you bring up a good point, ....wouldn't it be easier to just ask me how well you will do....before you go....ooops he already left. I was just about to tell him...well guess he'll find out for himself.
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    Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:29 am  

    Eileen; fellow 'hawkers, I'm back.

    And, to my utmost shame, I have failed you all. I shall not be broadcasting this from the top of the Guildhall, though I've committed page 89 to memory.

    Getting into the Tower of Corporate Fluff was easy; how arrogant I thought, no guards, just a doorman called Ed. Naturally, Ed was easily bypassed.

    The tower has 7 levels. The first 6 were full of the minions of the Wizards. Shackled to desks and chewing on pens, no doubt dreaming of the death of our world and how to please their masters with cunning schemes. And the decor; a mind numbing, swirling vista of shades of beige. I barely kept my sanity in these lower levels.

    The doors were inscribed with strange glyphs spelling out words that i couldn't understand. Gleemax was one. Another seemed to say "Insider". The irony. I had never felt more like an outsider.

    The levels traversed, I came then to the uppermost portion of the tower. I had overhead the minions whisper of this level. The sanctum of the book, they called it. Their only desire seemed to be to "have some input into it's final incarnation".

    I crept into the chamber and, behold, upon a pedestal rested a leather bound volume. There were no traps, how careless these mighty Wizards. I perused the mighty tome, expecting great secrets and insight into the fate of my world but, the horror, I must've failed my Decipher Script. The words made no sense. Tiefling; surely they mean Halfling. Dragonborn; surely Gnome. Eladrin; what? Points of light; where? Gods, whose causes seemed horribly confused. And the notation in the margin seemed to consist of; first, take a smidgeon of Gh. Add a spoonful of FR. Then, a dollop of EB. Mix with other stuff, and ta dah! We'll have it. I moved through the book coming to a section called "The Rules". Aha! I thought . Here we have it. The crunch. Empty. Every page. Not a thing.

    At this point I felt a draught caress my neck and, turning, beheld the Master Wizard and 6 of his chief underlings. I knew he was the Big Wizard because of the beige epaulettes on his robes.

    "Who are you?" he boomed.

    "Ragr, of Greyhawk." I boomed back.
    "Sorry, where? he replied, meekly.
    "Greyhawk, that's right, pal," I triumphantly declared.
    He snapped his fingers, and a chair appeared, into which I was coerced by some sorcery. A cup of tea was placed in my hand, as the Wizard and his minions fussed around me, with downcast eyes and muttering "there, there".

    Some powerful charm was invoked upon me, because the next thing I know I'm leaving the tower. I glance back to find not only the Wizard, but all his henchman waving goodbye. All seemed to have tears in their eyes. I looked at the floor, overcome with sadness. When I raised my eyes again, they'd all gone. Back to the Tower, no doubt. Back to their world.

    A great weight was lifted off my shoulders then. And I returned to Greyhawk with a spring in my step and a smile in my heart, knowing this for sure. They may attack it, but they cannot destroy it. Because they seemed so, well, rubbish really.

    That is my tale. To the Tower. Oh! And back again.
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    Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:26 am  

    Ummm...what I wanted to tell you is that Ed wasn't really all that harmless. If you look down, you'll notice your belt pouch is gone....

    I'm concerned, if everything happened the way you said it did....how do we know that you are the real Ragr and not some Simulacrum? Perhaps you sir are some sort of wicked spy sent to garner our secrets...First your masters steal our castle now they want.....?

    Is it possible that the real Ragr is dead? Perhaps being held prisoner by Ed? I think the real Ragr would have known where to put the Citadel by the Sea module, (see the Adventures for the Younger Gamer thread) only a farce would be so unfamiliar with the world so as to ask for help. Clearly a rescue mission must be launched....But where could we find adventurers brave enough?
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    Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:38 am  

    Ed's just a guy whose name is missing a d and an a, and if he's got my purse I'll happily provide those letters.

    Simulacrum? Spy? Have you totally lost it, prophet? I've got "the real thing" tattooed on my soul. With your extraordinary powers of Divination surely you can tell the difference. By Brandobaris' nimble digits, I despair of the deceit and suspicion prevalent in the world today.

    As for asking for help; even an uber character like me needs to call on friends from time to time.
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    Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:45 am  

    Well if you are planning a second assult, I offer my humble services. I'm not sure what I can do to help other than offer divination spells however. The cryptic divinations I receive take about a hour for my party to figure out in the game. I'm sure with your experience going all the way back to 1st edition we could figure them out within a half an hour.

    I'm certainly not much of a combatant. In fact I even have attack penalties due to lack of strength and a flaw from Unearthed Arcana. But none the less, I am no stranger to quests and danger. Just don't be suprised when I am standing behind you the whole time. Oh, and I tend to cry after I am forced to defend myself and slay another, and I also take time to do an After Battle Prayer as well. Did you see any giant bugs or troglodytes there? I am extremely scared of both. So what do you think? Need assistance?

    As far as being suspicious, we have not idea what that funny tea you were drinking did to you.
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    Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:17 am  

    I'm not sure I need to go back. I honestly think I'm done with The Tower, and it's done with me. And, if we're lucky, it's done with all of us.
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    Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:55 am  

    OK, thanks for the great conversation, quite entertaining!
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    Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:02 pm  

    It's been a blast. When I said I'm done with The Tower, I meant financially. Wink
    If you find anything out with your Divinations and need to me infiltrate that haunt of edition meddlers to confirm anything, Ragr's ready to go. This time it's personal and I won't be partaking of any "peppermint" tea. And that Ed fellow owes me a purse. Full.

    It's good to know I've got a Prophet on my side. Cool

    See you elsewhere on the forums.
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    Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:11 pm  

    Anytime your looking for me I will be standing behind you, so actually I think it's more like watching your back. Besides with you in the front I have time to brush my hair in between encounters.
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    Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:19 am  

    Hey there, Prophet.

    You wanted more banter. Well, the mushrooms ran out so I thought it was time to plot my revenge on that purse filcher, Ed.
    So, off I went, back to the Tower Of Inestimable Hype. I moved stealthily, like only a cruelly wronged Halfling can. And came upon Ed, that scurvy dog, sitting at his guardpost reading a copy of The Complete Watchman, a supplement offering multiple character options for doormen of all types. Placing a small knife for peeling fruit against his smooth throat, I ushered him into a small closet and demanded the return of my purse and a full explanation for his filthy thieving ways. To my surprise, he explained that his real name was, in fact, Bob. And that he worked for a guy called Eric; I kid you not. You couldn't make this stuff up. Turns out Bob, you need to pay attention at this point, had been listening intently to conversations throughout the Tower Of Our Presentations Should Be Better Prepared and had secretly made notes and passed them on to his mysterious master. When pressed, well, slapped roughly a few times to be accurate, Bob revealed that all he knew was that the information was passed on to a creature called The Jason, who was compiling a mighty tome that would possibly capture the souls of those formerly in thrall to the Wizards'. I slapped Bob again at this point, I mean dark plans are all very interesting, but what I really wanted was my bleedin' purse back.
    "No, No, No," exclaimed Ed/Bob/Whatever. Turns out it was all a fiendish plan to draw me back to the Tower Of Ever Worsening Epithets so that I would be able to reveal the cunning plan to a select few worthies; that's you I guess, Prophet. Anyway, I reclaimed my purse, after checking its contents, slapped Bob a few more times-hey, it's the way of the world-and returned home. I did ask Bob if he wasn't afraid that the Wizards Of The Beige Mantle may exact a terrifying revenge upon him and his mysterious masters but it turns out that they've all signed a life long non-intervention contract or some such. I don't pretend to understand such corporate obfuscations but it sure smells like some-ones' a sucker.

    So, here I am, purse retrieved, feet up in front of a nice warm fire, just waiting to see which side looks the strongest. And then? Time to make a plan. Then a contingency. Followed by an escape clause (technical term for a mid-conflict positional adjustment; that's changing sides if you're Italian. No offence meant Laughing ).

    Mmnnn! Bacon sandwich. Cool
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    Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:26 am  

    Ragr wrote:
    Hey there, Prophet. You wanted more banter. Well, the mushrooms ran out so I thought it was time to plot my revenge on that purse filcher, Ed.


    So basically you came out of your comatose state. I have readily warned you about those mushrooms. Greyhawk City is not a safe place to be purchasing (acquiring) such additives. In all of our travels, have you not learned to pass on getting such things wholesale or occasionally picking these plants in the local dungeon. (Sigh!)

    Quote:
    So, off I went, back to the Tower Of Inestimable Hype. I moved stealthily, like only a cruelly wronged Halfling can. And came upon Ed, that scurvy dog, sitting at his guardpost reading a copy of The Complete Watchman, a supplement offering multiple character options for doormen of all types. Placing a small knife for peeling fruit against his smooth throat, I ushered him into a small closet and demanded the return of my purse and a full explanation for his filthy thieving ways. To my surprise, he explained that his real name was, in fact, Bob. And that he worked for a guy called Eric; I kid you not. You couldn't make this stuff up.


    So you returned to the Tower of Complete Splatbook Production, good for you. My only complaint is that you didn't take me with you. You said "It is good to know I have a Prophet at my side". My guess is you took the first hussy you could find from the local tavern. Mad Somehow I doubt Ed was reading the book, but most likely just looking at the pictures. Perhaps he was admiring the wonderful hand crafted drawings of what Greyhawk doesn't look like. Or perhaps the book went into full explanation of how doorman dragonborn have (ahem) large mammary glands. Anyway, excellent work, you found him, aproached with the necessary 3.5 skills you have acquired, and threatened him with your little plastic picnic knife.

    Quote:
    Turns out Bob, you need to pay attention at this point, had been listening intently to conversations throughout the Tower Of Our Presentations Should Be Better Prepared and had secretly made notes and passed them on to his mysterious master.


    Now, if I understand you correctly, he clearly gave in to your demands for information after a brutal beating, and then you discovered he is working for the good guys.

    Quote:
    When pressed, well, slapped roughly a few times to be accurate, Bob revealed that all he knew was that the information was passed on to a creature called The Jason, who was compiling a mighty tome that would possibly capture the souls of those formerly in thrall to the Wizards'. I slapped Bob again at this point, I mean dark plans are all very interesting, but what I really wanted was my bleedin' purse back.
    "No, No, No," exclaimed Ed/Bob/Whatever. Turns out it was all a fiendish plan to draw me back to the Tower Of Ever Worsening Epithets so that I would be able to reveal the cunning plan to a select few worthies; that's you I guess, Prophet.


    So then you slapped the good guy up some more? Ragr, this is how villains in Greyhawk are made. You know, they start at the bottom, working for some shmuck. Then some high and mighty adventurer (or in your case short, but higher than you use to be come 4th edition) comes around, slaps them up for the heck of it, and KABOOM instant recipe for iconic Greyhawk villain. Confused Great, now in about 3 generations your grandkids are going to have to undo all your handywork by slaying BOB, the Lich Formerly Known as ED, who lost his head with Ragr's plastic picnic knife. We are suppose to be cleaning up this World of Greyhawk, not insure the slavery of millions in the 8th edition adventure entitled The Return to the Return of What Use to be The Tomb of Horrors.

    Quote:
    No, No, No," exclaimed Ed/Bob/Whatever. Turns out it was all a fiendish plan to draw me back to the Tower Of Ever Worsening Epithets so that I would be able to reveal the cunning plan to a select few worthies; that's you I guess, Prophet.


    Well I truly appreciate being considered worthy of such vital information. I do have one significant concern however. I have done my own research, and it seems that the Tower of Doom Grinder Backturning has unhatched an evil plot which will bring about the final destruction of Greyhawk, shortly before the 4th edition release.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080318a

    Together, we must prepare for the journey for there is much to do. Using my contacts, I think I can get us there with minimal difficulty. Now, you of coarse must keep this highly sensitive information to yourself, for I am about to reveal my travel agent. He is our one and only Mort. He once provided me with a map to Ull. I did request a list of 5 star taverns along the way however, and he had the nerve to tell me to "rough it". Commoners! But, seeing the importance of this quest, I am certain that we can persuade him to provide such a document for us as well as suitable lodging for an upper class person such as myself.

    Quote:
    So, here I am, purse retrieved, feet up in front of a nice warm fire, just waiting to see which side looks the strongest. And then? Time to make a plan. Then a contingency. Followed by an escape clause (technical term for a mid-conflict positional adjustment; that's changing sides if you're Italian. No offence meant Laughing ). Mmnnn! Bacon sandwich.


    So while I'm preparing this monumental quest of sorts before The Tower of "They Who Lost the OGL/GSL in the Mailbox" can wrought absolute anarchy upon our beloved Greyhawk, you think you have time to put your feet up by a warm fire, eat a bacon sandwich, and lolygag at the girls no doubt. Tomorrow we shall ready the caravan of 20 wagons and carts, 52 beasts of burden, 86 turkeys, 97 guardsmen, 12 pink and purple umbrellas, a random encounter generator stolen from DI so we know when and what the encounters will be, as well as being armed with the most famous Complete Book of Defeating Tharizdun wannabees, along with my favorite halfling, we shall journey to where ever Mort's map leads us. Until, then move over. And put some shoes on, didn't you read the signon the wall it says "No shirt, no shoes, no service."

    By the way, are you getting use to boating these days? Oh and look at the cute little shoes Ragr's wearing.

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080208a
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    Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:59 am  

    Well now, you know I would have called you to come on the mission but I, er, well I ermm....I heard there were Trogs! That was it! Happy

    And it could have got violent (did, actually). And as you know, you being a bastion of morality, there's good violence and then there's yer bad violence. And, if something good comes out of it, y'know like information or treas....er, I mean godly rewards, then it's good violence, right? Damn these moral mazes. Now it wasn't exactly a "brutal beating", more "lively cajoling" with an open palm. You gotta be accurate, Prophet. And I didn't see any evidence to support the idea that he was a "good guy"; after all he was a spy. That sounds a fairly dubious occupation to me.

    On a different subject. So the choice is a) Big T destroys the world,
    b) Move to Ull.

    I'm sorry, I don't see a choice there. Why not just sit in the pub and wait for the devastation to come to you. 45 Days of hardship later the conversation goes something like;
    "We're here."
    "Where?"
    "Ull."
    "Oh!"
    "Do you like it?"
    "Do I like WHAT?"
    Shocked

    As we know swearing is not allowed on CF. So I'm not going to fall into the trap of your feeble attempt to goad me, by posting that link to the April Fools come early mock Halfling backstory laugh-athon on Wotc's site.

    See, I'm not bothered.

    Not at all.

    Calm.

    $&66^RYT$%T%Y%TYERU^U^HYTRUHYRHTRHR%^$^TBTERB%Y^%$(*^&^$£^$^$^%$&^%UJ^J%YJ%YJY%J. Mad Mad Mad
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    Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:00 pm  

    Hmmm....that's funny, you just said:

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    And I didn't see any evidence to support the idea that he was a "good guy"; after all he was a spy. That sounds a fairly dubious occupation to me.


    Quote:
    It's been a funny week. Having had a couple of conversations with my 2 regular players it seems both are in favour of adopting 4e but adapting it to our needs. I was a little surprised I have to say, but the point was made that this could mean less work overall. This was, of course, prior to Paizo's announcement, which was certainly well received by me.


    Uh...huh.....according to the above quote of the day, you and the "spy" are apparently working on the same side. He works for Paizo, you stated that the Paizo news was well received by YOU. Do you deny that you made these statements? Perhaps I misunderstood your statement above. So now your implying that the spy isn't a good guy when clearly you and he are working together. That good sir, makes you guilty by association. Which in turn doesn't make you a very nice guy either. I think you should stop by my temple for a little one on on confession of the soul. Together, we shall open that closet of skeletons and purge you of the evils that lie within. If that doesn't work, we can always beat you half to death like you did to your good buddy BOB.

    Quote:
    Well now, you know I would have called you to come on the mission but I, er, well I ermm....I heard there were Trogs! That was it!


    Well, were there troglodytes there or not? Sounds like you just trying to give me the brush off so you could walk away with more of your treas....er! I'll have you know that I dedicated any portions of the gains I would have acquired to the local orphanage. Seems there is this little place down thes street called The Little Homeless Halflings of Hawkville. They are greatly depending upon the trinkets people like you and I bring in in order to keep their doors open. Next week the government says they are going to close the doors if their back taxes aren't paid.

    Quote:
    And it could have got violent (did, actually). And as you know, you being a bastion of morality, there's good violence and then there's yer bad violence. And, if something good comes out of it, y'know like information or treas....er, I mean godly rewards, then it's good violence, right? Damn these moral mazes. Now it wasn't exactly a "brutal beating", more "lively cajoling" with an open palm. You gotta be accurate, Prophet.


    So once again you raise your hand in violence. Fight violence with more violence....hmmm....interesting philosophy! Now were trying distinguish good violence from bad violence? Seems to me your just looking for a reason to stab your buddy BOB in the back and take his ill gotten gains. Now I know for a fact that you beat him brutally. You see BOB came to me with a mere 2 hp left out of a maximum of 81, and said that the Great Ragr beat him mercilessly, over and over. He says you even kicked his visiting grandmother in the shin and stole her purse. I cast Detect Lie and discovered that he was telling the truth. So tell me, why did you kick his grandmother in the shin and steal her purse? Don't you think that was a bit excessive?

    Quote:
    On a different subject. So the choice is a) Big T destroys the world,
    b) Move to Ull.

    I'm sorry, I don't see a choice there. Why not just sit in the pub and wait for the devastation to come to you.


    So you would rather sit in the tavern, spend grandma's money, send the orphanage out of business....just for a drink or two? Meanwhile the forces of Tharizdun come crashing down upon the Flanaess in hordes like which the world has never seen before. I can practically hear the cries of pain and death wave across the Flanaess as millions of innocent people die just so you can have one more drink at your favortite watering hole. So all the time and expense I went through to get the caravan of 20 wagons and carts, 52 beasts of burden, 86 turkeys, 97 guardsmen, 12 pink and purple umbrellas, a random encounter generator stolen from DI so we know when and what the encounters will be, as well as being armed with the most famous Complete Book of Defeating Tharizdun wannabees, was for nothing, because you don't want to go?

    Shhhhhh.......do you hear that....that was little Johnny screaming "Oh Mr. Cleric of Tharizdun please don't drop me into that black hole of absolute death and suffering....No please...not my little sister....Oh, no, there goes her little puppy Happy Paws, he once saved by feeble grandfather from a terrible orc attack back in 91 while grandpa was travelling uphill both ways in the dead of winter, barefoot, just so he could deliver Solace presents to my deathly ill mother.

    Quote:
    As we know swearing is not allowed on CF. So I'm not going to fall into the trap of your feeble attempt to goad me, by posting that link to the April Fools come early mock Halfling backstory laugh-athon on Wotc's site.

    See, I'm not bothered.

    Not at all.

    Calm.

    $&66^RYT$%T%Y%TYERU^U^HYTRUHYRHTRHR%^$^TBTERB%Y^%$(*^&^$£^$^$^%$&^%UJ^J%YJ%YJY%J.


    If it didn't bother you, then why were you WEARING SHOES, ON A BOAT? Clearly you have caved under the pressure of 4th edition. I also noticed that the raft was travelling in the opposite direction of the Tharizdun threat. I think you should give your little bath tub toy to the orphanage.

    By the way did you know that $&66^RYT$%T%Y%TYERU^U^HYTRUHYRHTRHR%^$^TBTERB%Y^%$(*^&^$£^$^$^%$&^%UJ^J%YJ%YJY%J in Ancient Baklunish means that Eileen, Prophet of Istus is always right and I am her personal servant until the ends of time? It's true, it really does. So I appreciate the loyalty on your part. I do believe your first duty shall be to give me a manicure! Happy
    _________________
    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    From: Frinton on Sea England

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    Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:52 am  

    My poor, deluded, cloistered Prophet. You really must get out more often. Next time you're passing wherever I've laid my hat, pop in for a lesson from the University of Life. The School of Street. The College Of Reality. Working for a "common cause" is not "being on the same side". Tut, tut.

    Of course they were Trogs. Ugly, pale and distinctly ripe. Definitely Trogs. Or gamers, of course.

    Now, I'm an equal opportunities Halfling, so if those lazy sods at The Little Homeless Halflings' whatever are too useless to seize, and I mean seize, the moments presented to them by the great inattentive then they deserve all they get. Don't come to me waving that charity box around, 'cause I'll send you home with an empty container for a helmet. Mad

    Bob had 81 hp Shocked. In the words of the great Doppleganger, "I'm bad, I'm bad. Y'know it."

    And that was Bob's grandmother? Heck! I thought it was Iggwilv. Laughing No wonder the purse was a little light.

    I have no problem with little Johnny's wailing, but all your blathering is depressing the hell out of me. So, if you promise to stop hectoring me I'll come to Ull. But it had better be worth it. I don't want to hear nothing about soul cleansing.

    I can do manicures. No problem. You said you wanted those nails short, right?
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    Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:36 pm  

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    My poor, deluded, cloistered Prophet. You really must get out more often.


    Wow, is that your way of asking me out? Embarassed Wow, a date, Oh boy! Happy Hmmm.....human and halfling with shoes, interesting. I suppose we could put really big lifts in your shoes or maybe get you some shoes of growth before we stop by my parents mansion outside of Greyhawk City. You know where Zagyg's Bridge is right? There's a small hill which overlooks it with a wonderful little mansion on top, that's where I live. It's been in the family for generations. Anyway, my dad works for the Greyhawk militia as a Commander so please make sure your dressed appropriately, call him sir until he asks you to address him differently and make sure that he knows that you have nothing but the best intentions with his little girl. Mum retired early from wizardry and now works primarly as a painter, so make sure you check out her painting gallery and request that she does a piece of work for you. Now they are going to ask you all sorts of questions, like who your parents are, where you live, what kind of halfling you are, if you wear pink and polka dot pants, you know, all the usual sorts of questions one gets, so make sure your on your best behavior and absolutely no borrowing/selectively taking/stealing/taking without asking/or otherwise acquiring anything in the house. Dad's got access to the keys to the citadel prison and it would really be embarressing if you ended up there. But before we go, we should really go shopping, your going to need some new clothes, those rags you have on simply will not do!

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Next time you're passing wherever I've laid my hat, pop in for a lesson from the University of Life. The School of Street. The College Of Reality.


    Wow, sounds like we are going to have lots of fun after the dinner at my parents house. Do you plan on taking me to all the seedy places I have never been allowed? Keep in mind that a lot of people in Greyhawk City know who I am by name and face and that I need to maintain my wholesome reputation. Wow, this is going to be so cool. I betcha we will even see a real live thief, or maybe a gambling house. Hey do you think we could take a tour of the thieves guild while we are in all the neat areas of Greyhawk City? Oh, and then I could take you around, you know, maybe stop by the homes of the various Olgarchy members, the theater, ummm....maybe a walk in the North Hills Park!

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Of course they were Trogs. Ugly, pale and distinctly ripe. Definitely Trogs. Or gamers, of course.


    Yea, I guess your right, I'm standing next to you and now that you mention it I can smell them on you. You want to stand downwind, move a little bit to the left, the sun is in my eyes...oh never mind, your not tall enough!, Just stand downwind. You will visit the bath house right before the big night right?

    Ragr wrote:
    Quote:
    Now, I'm an equal opportunities Halfling, so if those lazy sods at The Little Homeless Halflings' whatever are too useless to seize, and I mean seize, the moments presented to them by the great inattentive then they deserve all they get. Don't come to me waving that charity box around, 'cause I'll send you home with an empty container for a helmet. Mad


    Ok, I was thinking that eventually we would have, you know a big family, but I can see that your now quite ready for that, so maybe we will just get dog instead. I'm mean really, calling them lazy sods and saying they are useless and don't seize their opportunities....wow, kinda harsh.....you don't kick puppies do you? Oh, I get it, your just trying out your macho, tough guy routine thinking that in these hard times it will impress my dad! Gotcha! he's actually not like that at all. He is really nice. He only condemed 14 people to hanging last week and 2 just lost multiple appendages.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    I have no problem with little Johnny's wailing,


    Oh, you want to name our first child Johnny. Ok, that works for me.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Bob had 81 hp Shocked. In the words of the great Doppleganger, "I'm bad, I'm bad. Y'know it. "And that was Bob's grandmother? Heck! I thought it was Iggwilv. Laughing No wonder the purse was a little light.


    Yes, Bob had 81 hit points! His grandmother had -3. Oh, and the purse may have been light but it was filled with those new forms of 4th edition currency, what are they called, astral diamonds I think. Just one of those is worth like $10,000 gold. I don't know how you figured Bob's Grandmother was Iggwilv, the woman was unconconscious sitting in her rocking chair, with needle point in her lap. I still can't believe you kicked her in the shin as well. Kinda reminds me of that moving illusion I once saw starring Chevy Chase, I think it was called National Lampouns Vacation. Old Aunt died so they sat her on top of their magical carriage and then it started to rain as they travelled down the road.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    all your blathering is depressing the hell out of me. So, if you promise to stop hectoring me I'll come to Ull. But it had better be worth it. I don't want to hear nothing about soul cleansing.


    Are you off your meds again? You know the doctor says you won't get better if you don't keep taking your medicine. Depression is a very serious issue in todays World of Greyhawk. Statistics prove that 1 out of every 7 people still suffer from post Greyhawk Wars syndrown. 1 out of 4 halflings suffer from height depresssion and try to compensate by wearing shoes. 1 out of 3 citizens who spend more than 5 hours a week at the tavern suffer from depression related alcoholism. Finally, 1 out of 5 join the Thieve's Guild because they are seeking a sense of belonging.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    I can do manicures. No problem. You said you wanted those nails short, right?


    I want them tipped and sharp, a brilliant red color, and while your at it, I think we should do your toes as well. Do you like hot pink?
    _________________
    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Posts: 2568
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    Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:23 am  

    LoL. That is one of the funniest replies I've read all week Eileen. post Greyhawk Wars syndrome! Man can I steal that line? Laughing
    Your family background and familiarity with GHC also astounds me. I can't wait to see how Ragr responds. *psst Ragr...Bridge of Entwined Hearts*
    Master Greytalker

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    Posts: 654
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    Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:16 am  

    Mort, I don't know what passes for entertainment in Ull, although I could hazard a guess or two, but if you think I'm going to meet Eileen on The Bridge Of Entwined Things while you and a group of hairy, unclean, horse botherers watch on with popcorn and malice aforethought, think again. Wrong kind of fantasy, brov! Wink

    Meet the Eileens? Shocked OMG! Are you truly insane? Maybe you're one of those Doomdweebies. And btw, this IS my best behaviour. It doesn't get any cleaner and more respectful than this. The pink polka dot thing was a one off. I needed to sneak into the Temple Of Heironeous unnoticed. Laughing

    Your family sounds so lovely. The mansion so wonderful. Your mum's a painter, your dad's old bill (eh, cop). How idyllic. Makes me wanna go Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! And then heave. And then heave an orphan. Off the same hill. Come the revolution though, sister, I'm afraid it's the wall for your kind.

    Now I've told you before, if you're going to bandy around terms like "thief", you better have some cold, hard evidence. And, as a wise colleague of mine once said, "we don't need no stinkin' badges". Or guilds.

    So, your father hangs people. Doesn't quite fit with that wholesome image you cultivate, Prophet. But, if they were dumb enough to get caught I guess hangings almost too good for them. That's some dichotomy you've got going there. Your father hangs criminals on behalf of the city. The city is run by Thi......Oh, sorry. For one moment there I forgot how to spell Oligarchs. And you claim to know a few "Oligarchs" personally. Interesting.

    Iggwilv/Bob's Grandmother was asleep? Jeez, I thought she was spellcasting. I thought the knitting needles were some kind of new fangled arcane focus jobbywhatsit. And that new 4e currency; A copper conman, a silver smug, a gold greedy, and a platinum pay pay pay and pay some more. That'll never catch on. Will it?

    As for your statistics; I don't know whose sadder. The people who are them, or the people who quote them.
    Master Greytalker

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    Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:57 pm  

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Mort, I don't know what passes for entertainment in Ull, although I could hazard a guess or two, but if you think I'm going to meet Eileen on The Bridge Of Entwined Things while you and a group of hairy, unclean, horse botherers watch on with popcorn and malice aforethought, think again. Wrong kind of fantasy, brov! Wink


    Apparently Mort at least has a romantic side to him. Happy

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Meet the Eileens? Shocked OMG! Are you truly insane? Maybe you're one of those Doomdweebies. And btw, this IS my best behaviour. It doesn't get any cleaner and more respectful than this. The pink polka dot thing was a one off. I needed to sneak into the Temple Of Heironeous unnoticed.


    Well I have no idea what a Doomdweebies is but it doesn't sound good. I have seen the future my little friend and all I have to say is that for you, yes it does get cleaner, as far as best behavior, well that will be your choice, wondering what I am talking about, read on....

    Quote:
    Your family sounds so lovely. The mansion so wonderful. Your mum's a painter, your dad's old bill (eh, cop). How idyllic. Makes me wanna go Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! And then heave. And then heave an orphan. Off the same hill.


    Of coarse my family is lovely, what else would they be? Of coarse the mansion is lovely, its been in the family for years. The property was originally handed to the family from Mayor Zagig Yragerne himself. You would know this if you ever bothered to read my character sheet. As you should know by now, I was selected by Istus personally for the entire salvation of the Flanaess. Such a job requires having the right attributes, such as great faith, charisma, and a lovely family, with a lovely home, on a lovely hill, overlooking a lovely bridge which crosses a lovely river, which flows pass a lovely city, which is the heart of a lovely game world, run by a lovely DM.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Now I've told you before, if you're going to bandy around terms like "thief", you better have some cold, hard evidence. And, as a wise colleague of mine once said, "we don't need no stinkin' badges". Or guilds.


    Uh huh....do you see where this is going? Because I do! But then again, that's my job, to see things that you can't see, because they haven't happened yet! Keep reading....

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    So, your father hangs people. Doesn't quite fit with that wholesome image you cultivate, Prophet. But, if they were dumb enough to get caught I guess hangings almost too good for them. That's some dichotomy you've got going there. Your father hangs criminals on behalf of the city. The city is run by Thi......Oh, sorry. For one moment there I forgot how to spell Oligarchs. And you claim to know a few "Oligarchs" personally.


    I daresay I do not cultivate a wholesome image, I worship the Goddess of Truth, so I don't lie nor exaggerate. It just happens to be that I am lovely, smart, and well mannered. As for my Father, now he is actually more of a soldier who has moved up the ranks and now holds a position of authority. His superior education and experience has granted him a position in which he is allowed to make the necessary decisions in keeping the riff raff out of Greyhawk City...more on this later....As for the specifics of the punishments handed down, well lets just say that he and I are Lawful Neutral (No not undecided like future variations will be), we are absolute in our convictions. We believe that the laws of our good city are fair and worthy of representing the belief system of society. If you are uncomfortable with the laws of the land perhaps you should do something to change that. We have a wonderful legal system in place just for people of discontent like yourself. The Oligarchy will be meeting next week if you would like to arrange a council with them. Perhaps you could bring your list of "new and better laws" with and present them to the council. That is if you can find the time....

    And yes I know all of the Oligarchs currently in place within the city of Greyhawk. Mind you, I didn't say it was on any kind of personal level, but yes, I do know them. For the sake of political correctness, I will state that certain opinons of various individuals I am in accordant with while others are should we say less properly guided and motivated in their decisions concerning our fair city. Heck, if you think you can do a better job then go for it. I have it on good authority that one such member will soon be stepping down. No I can't tell you which one either. Yes I know which one as well as why they will be stepping down!

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Interesting


    Of coarse, everything I say and do is interesting. Thats because I am a lovely and interesting person, not to mention dedicated, responsible, wealthy, beautiful, intelligent, and loyal.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    And that new 4e currency; A copper conman, a silver smug, a gold greedy, and a platinum pay pay pay and pay some more. That'll never catch on. Will it?


    Not not in Greyhawk. It will be even less popular in future editions of D&D as well. 5th edition will be marketed as back to the basics, though this will be a bit of spin, there will be thread of significant truth to it as well, but we need to wait a few years for that one. Although if I were you, I would start collecting some of these coins if you can find them in mint condition. They won't be in circulation all that long.

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    Iggwilv/Bob's Grandmother was asleep? Jeez, I thought she was spellcasting. I thought the knitting needles were some kind of new fangled arcane focus jobbywhatsit.


    Tsk, tsk, apparently you thought wrong. She was sewing a new sweater for your son little Johnny! Mad

    Funeral processions for Bob's Grandmother will take place on Gods Day at 2:00 in the afternoon. Please bring a food or beverage along with your sincere condolences to the family. Sad

    Ragr said:
    Quote:
    As for your statistics; I don't know whose sadder. The people who are them, or the people who quote them.


    Your just upset because I quoted them first. Wink
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3 Hours later, in the Citadel of Greyhawk City, the courtroom of Commander Barius of Greyhawk, Imperial Guardsman Commander, Judge of the City of Greyhawk.....

    BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG....."ATTENTION, ATTENTION....THE HEARING OF RAGR VERSUS THE CITY OF GREYHAWK WILL NOW COME TO ORDER.....NOW THAT THE ACCUSED HAS BEEN PROPERLY BATHED AND ATTIRED AFTER CONSIDERABLE DIFFICULTY MAY I ADD, NEVER IN ALL MY YEARS HAVE I EVER SEEN A HALFLING PUT UP SUCH A FUSS ABOUT HAVING TO TAKE A BATH.

    RAGR, ON THE CHARGES OF MURDER, THEFT, CONSPIRACY TO STEAL, BREAKING AND ENTERING, INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE, SLANDER, THROWING AN ORPHAN OFF THE BRIDGE OF ZAGYG, HURLING OFF THE BRIDGE OF ZAGYG AND POLLUTING THE WATERWAYS OF THE SELINTAN RIVER, REPEATED CASES OF ASSAULT (SUCH AS BOB AND JACK THE RHENNEE WHO WAS TRAVELING DOWN THE SELINTAN WHEN YOU HURLED OVER THE BRIDGE), BREAKING A DATE WITH MY LOVELY DAUGHTER EILEEN, ALONG WITH NUMEROUS OTHER CRIMINAL ACTIONS TO LENGTHY TO SPECIFY AT THIS TIME), HOW DO YOU PLEA?
    _________________
    Eileen of Greyhawk, Prophet of Istus, Messenger of the Gods
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    Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:06 pm  

    Poor Ragr, nicked by the rozzers, stripped out of 'is bling an' burberry an' sent up front of old Barnaby.

    This merits a play by Liam Willspire, the Bard of Willip. "Never was there a tale of more woe than this of Eileen and her Ragr." No wait, that doesn't rhyme. Tale of more "stager".... "plaiger"... "beiger".... Man, I need a drink.
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    Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:58 am  

    Hey, Smillan, that had me in stitches. Laughing You must related to **** Van Dyke; "Cahm ohrn Mairy Pop'inns". The only British accent worse than that was the bloke who played Daphne's brother in Frasier, I forget his name, fortunately.

    Eileen, you know the Doomdweebies; heck we've been talking about "The Temple" enough recently. It's them purple clad losers Mort so brilliantly sends up.

    My plea shall be entered by my solicitor from the firm of Shuttlecock & Wing-Tip Curlytoes;

    Murder; Not guilty, on the grounds that most of those slain were in self defence, already dead, or, as fate would have it, just got in the way at the wrong time. Blame Istus not my client.

    Theft; Not guilty, on the grounds that, because of a religious conviction, my client believes that all property is theft, and to accuse my client thus is tantamount to religious persecution by the state. Prosecution on these counts would cause untold uproar among many churches (Trithereon) opening the city up to discontent from within.

    Breaking and entering; Not guilty. My client denies breaking anything, and only entered at the request of the tenant.

    Industrial espionage; Not guilty. My client undertook a mission of great interest to the whole of Greyhawk, encouraged, if I might add, by certain Prophets. My client was poisoned, subject to rude taunts about the validity of the world in which he lived and exposed to the colour Beige for prolonged bouts. Yet, despite suffering such degradations, he returned to impart what he had learned to all of this world. My client should be rewarded, not prosecuted, for such selfless conduct.

    Slander; Not guilty. A truth is a truth, a fact a fact. Such plain speaking honesty is to be applauded in this day and age. My client belongs to no secret society or brotherhood. If he ever had designs on world domination my client would inform all of his intentions; there is past precedence and supporting evidence to this end, my lovely man, er..Judge.

    Throwing of an orphan; Not guilty. See next charge.

    Assault; Not guilty. Jack the Rhennee was on the run....I mean float, from the authorities. My client, spying the fleeing miscreant, used the only weapon he had to hand in order to arrest the criminals' flight. My client has accepted no credit for his valorous apprehension of this notorious felon, choosing to allow all the credit to be given to the falling orphan, Brian Grubbyaffairs, who is currently recovering, and doing well, at the Temple of Pelor. As for Bob; in a matter of world shaking import, sometimes one has to defend oneself with reciprocal force, and this my client did in the name of his beloved and beleaguered Greyhawk. It was not my clients' fault that Bob's granny was an absolute ringer for Iggwilv, and that he decided to rid the world of such a fiend. I'm sure (heavy sarcasm), you would all have accepted such a challenge without regard for your own health and prosperity.

    Breaking a date? Er..... My lord, I'm not sure this is actually illegal. Now, abuse of authority; there's a perfidious thing for sure. Wink

    Other charges; Well, you'll need to be specific in order for me to enter a plea on these. But, as you can see, my client is only too willing to co-operate, and it is surely now apparent that despite the sheer volume of accusations thrown his way he is, in fact, and word and deed, a very good Halfling. Although, perhaps occasionally, a little naughty.

    I implore you, my lovely lord, dismiss these charges and restore my clients reputation. Such as it is.
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    Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:28 pm  

    Getting back to the deific discussion, at least Bahamut and Pelor are not having it as bad as Xan Yae, Zuoken, and Zodal. With the monks not making the cut in the first release of 4e, these deities are losing a large percentage of their worshipers.

    --Telemachus
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    Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:24 pm  

    Ragr wrote:
    Hey, Smillan, that had me in stitches. Laughing You must related to **** Van Dyke; "Cahm ohrn Mairy Pop'inns". The only British accent worse than that was the bloke who played Daphne's brother in Frasier, I forget his name, fortunately.


    One part **** Van Dyke, one part Don Cheadle's character in Ocean's 11 and one part Val's Halal Kebab Emporium from rathergood.com. You should hear me do my "The angriest man in Cork" impersonation sometime.

    I'm hoping you're talking about the Australian guy who played one of Daphne's brothers, because I'm pretty sure the other two brothers were played by British actors. That'd be funny if a British actor did the worst British accent ever. Smile
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