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No 1/2-Orcs in 4e PH, possible release on DDI

 
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Saracenus
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: No 1/2-Orcs in 4e PH, possible release on DDI Reply with quote

Hello All,

Confirmation that 1/2-Orcs are out in 4e because of the "icky" origin story behind them. It is possible that they will be an extra on DDI, link here:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14765059&postcount=2101

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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awww! Poor 1/2 Orcs! That is kinda funny though. I guess with all the tieflings running around they must find that as being preferable to where 1/2 orc babies come from. Nobody ought to have a problem with demon sex at all.

Which reminds me, I haven't seen "My Demon Lover", "Rosemary's Baby", and "The Omen" series in a quasit's age! Laughing
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Saracenus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ceb,

I hate to burst your bubble but Tieflings are no longer the rape-get or co-mingling of humans and infernals in 3e... In 4e they are a distinct race of their own.

From the 1/2-Orc comments I will bet the reason for the change in Tieflings is the same queasiness they feel about how little half-orcs are created...

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Bryan Blumklotz
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Ragr
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half-Orcs are dropped because of the "ugly backstory". So Rich Baker posits an evil deity creating a race of half-breeds. Look, if you're going to drop them, just get on with it and spare us the namby pamby, "oooh! it's too icky" politically correct, let's not risk offending anybody horse manure. Pathetic! Mad
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't think many of us believed that they wouldn't find a way to push DI on the older players (those most resistant to accepting the DI in the first place). It could also be a strategy to lure people who spent a considerable amount on 3.5 books.

The thought being:

"Many will buy the core books out of curiosity but stop there. They won't buy book after book because they (us players) feel they have already done this. By putting a certain amount of material on DI, they (again us older players) consider core because it's always been there, we might be able to get their 12-15 bucks a month. Once they get use to the change, they will jump in and start buying books."

Richard Baker said:
Quote:
Half-orcs are a bit tricky, because they imply a very ugly backstory that we frankly don't want to dwell on very much. I think it's possible to posit a better backstory, like "long ago a god of evil mixed the races of orcs and humans, and to this day atavistic throwbacks are born to each from time to time." We'll see where we get to on that score when we get serious about updating the half-orc. So far we've just had other fish to fry first.


Or they could just say....as of the last few decades, the half-orc populations have responded to their alienation by congregating and developing small outpost communities of their own on the edges of frontier lands. With several such communities in place, legitimate families have began. Living on the outskirts of kingdoms in order to avoid distasteful reactions of others has resulted in a signficant upswing of adventurer like characters in order to help protect their communities and develop of in which they hope to call their own.

Just my thoughts, whether I'm right or not I do not know. Either way this is one person who will not be falling for questionable marketing practices any longer.
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's one way to get aroudn the Teifling issue, which is not to say the same couldn't have been done with half-orcs.

Do Tieflings now dwell on the prime similar to Eladrins?
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EileenProphetofIstus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tieflings and dragonborn both are from the prime material. According to their backdrop story they warred against one another as well. Each had its own distinct kingdom many ages ago. The elves, edadrin, and drow were all related as well, as told here...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071221

This is a snip from the Races and Classes book:
Tieflings are not human and demonic offspring, but are the true-breeding descendants of an ancient empire that made dark and terrible pacts with the Nine Hells.
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bubbagump
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
Tieflings and dragonborn both are from the prime material. According to their backdrop story they warred against one another as well. Each had its own distinct kingdom many ages ago. The elves, edadrin, and drow were all related as well, as told here...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071221

This is a snip from the Races and Classes book:
Tieflings are not human and demonic offspring, but are the true-breeding descendants of an ancient empire that made dark and terrible pacts with the Nine Hells.


Yeah. What was it that video said? "The game remains the same?" As my old pappy would put it, "My *ss it does!" I can't believe some people still want to argue with me that 4e isn't really changing anything but a few mechanics.
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Saracenus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bubbagump wrote:
Yeah. What was it that video said? "The game remains the same?" As my old pappy would put it, "My *ss it does!" I can't believe some people still want to argue with me that 4e isn't really changing anything but a few mechanics.


You will get no argument from me. From all sources I have talked with or read 4e is shaping up to be the most radical design departure from the core 1e system that runs through D&D up to 3e. Now I will admit that 4e has more in common with 3e, but it is going to throw off a great many legacy crunch and fluff items...

It remains to be seen whether I will play it, or whether I will mine it for ideas for my 3.5 campaign or whether it will be a dead end like Windows Me....

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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EileenProphetofIstus wrote:
Well I don't think many of us believed that they wouldn't find a way to push DI on the older players (those most resistant to accepting the DI in the first place). It could also be a strategy to lure people who spent a considerable amount on 3.5 books.

The thought being:

"Many will buy the core books out of curiosity but stop there. They won't buy book after book because they (us players) feel they have already done this. By putting a certain amount of material on DI, they (again us older players) consider core because it's always been there, we might be able to get their 12-15 bucks a month. Once they get use to the change, they will jump in and start buying books."

Just my thoughts, whether I'm right or not I do not know. Either way this is one person who will not be falling for questionable marketing practices any longer.


I think that this marketing approach is quite sensible from their perspective. This is why I think Greyhawk will appear in Dungeon and Dragon for 4e. It worked well for Paizo and if it aint broke, don't fix it. (Ah if only that was what they really thought - lol)
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Wolfsire
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking 4e was absurd from the getgo, I only popped in this forum cuz I saw PaulN6. Reading about what it was about just underscores the point.

I guess half elves are still in, because that would never be the product of rape. The only ugly thing you would have to think about is forest carpet burn.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think somebody should file a lawsuit against WotC claiming discrimination against children born of rape and/or interracial marriage. Of course, it's a bit of a stretch to say that excluding half-orcs demonstrates that kind of discrimination. Then again, given society's current fondness for litigation, I bet WotC would either pony up big bucks to settle out of court or at least release a huge 4e book about nothing but half-orcs. Sure would be funny to see 'em scramble. Wink
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Saracenus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bubbagump wrote:
I think somebody should file a lawsuit against WotC claiming discrimination against children born of rape and/or interracial marriage. Of course, it's a bit of a stretch to say that excluding half-orcs demonstrates that kind of discrimination. Then again, given society's current fondness for litigation, I bet WotC would either pony up big bucks to settle out of court or at least release a huge 4e book about nothing but half-orcs. Sure would be funny to see 'em scramble. Wink


Sweet Greyhawk Gods no, Bubba... don't do it. If it were just WotC with Magic and Pokemon mad money, sure go ahead... litigate away. But they are but a small piece of the Hasbro pie... but they are part of Hasbro... and their lawyers have teeth... Shocked

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Wolfsire
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saracenus wrote:
bubbagump wrote:
I think somebody should file a lawsuit against WotC claiming discrimination against children born of rape and/or interracial marriage. Of course, it's a bit of a stretch to say that excluding half-orcs demonstrates that kind of discrimination. Then again, given society's current fondness for litigation, I bet WotC would either pony up big bucks to settle out of court or at least release a huge 4e book about nothing but half-orcs. Sure would be funny to see 'em scramble. Wink


Sweet Greyhawk Gods no, Bubba... don't do it. If it were just WotC with Magic and Pokemon mad money, sure go ahead... litigate away. But they are but a small piece of the Hasbro pie... but they are part of Hasbro... and their lawyers have teeth... Shocked

In (Semi-Serious) Service,

Bryan Blumklotz
AKA Saracenus


... but their pockets are deeper Cool
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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we need a campaign to produce an 'orc-blooded' racial talent tree that can be applied to certain human characters in place of the standard racial talent tree? That might be all it takes to produce half orcs.
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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfsire wrote:
Thinking 4e was absurd from the getgo, I only popped in this forum cuz I saw PaulN6. Reading about what it was about just underscores the point.


Yay! Do I have a fan club or is it just that you like to argue against everything I stand for? You can be my nemesis! Bagsy I get the evil laugh!! Mwaa ha haa (cough).

I finished my Keoland Gazeteer last year. I converted DMG2 Saltmarsh to Seaton and just changed the DMG2 Saltmarsh entry to Seaton and used LG Saltmarsh, although my Saltmarsh info ended up being really sketchy.

I've almost done Furyondy and I think Geoff is next in my sights.

I'm going to wait for 4e PHB2 before I think about adjusting race and class distributions to reflect the new rules. Obviously half orcs are still in. No ethnic cleansing in my Greyhawk - not even gnomes!
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Wolfsire
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulN6 wrote:
Wolfsire wrote:
Thinking 4e was absurd from the getgo, I only popped in this forum cuz I saw PaulN6. Reading about what it was about just underscores the point.


Yay! Do I have a fan club or is it just that you like to argue against everything I stand for? You can be my nemesis! Bagsy I get the evil laugh!! Mwaa ha haa (cough).

I finished my Keoland Gazeteer last year. I converted DMG2 Saltmarsh to Seaton and just changed the DMG2 Saltmarsh entry to Seaton and used LG Saltmarsh, although my Saltmarsh info ended up being really sketchy.


Fan and Friend. I hope you show off Keoland in an article.
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